Wilson Audio Speakers: Why do people like them?

[Frank Dernie]

The first I heard was the original Watt, before the Puppy was mooted and I was impressed by the effort they had put into minimising cabinet radiation and they sounded great to me.

So much so that when I decided to spend time listening to speakers with a view to buying "speakers for life" the then current Watt/Puppy, then the Grand Slamm and also a used pair or the original 4 column Wamm were important parts of my auditioning, which went on for about 2 years.
I was disappointed by the Wamm liked the Grand Slamm and Watt/Puppy. They weren't quite so expensive in the 90s in France.

There were few, if any, speaker measurements I was aware of available back then.

I did eventually choose "speakers for life" that were not Wilsons and I still enjoy them daily, so for almost 30 years now.

On audition I have subsequently been impressed by the Sabrina and Alexia.

Maybe there is something wrong with me

 

[Mnyb]

Has not Magico made Wilson redundant yet ? Or perlisten in the smaller range ? As a wannabe oligarch I would compare with Magico ?
I have not heard these don’t know anyone owning those or any showrooms with them in my neck of the woods.

Would be interesting if I where at a show to have a listen to know what it’s all about.

 

[Soniclife]

And the source is vinyl so….

Not when I heard them.

 

[Sokel]

Has not Magico made Wilson redundant yet ? Or perlisten in the smaller range ? As a wannabe oligarch I would compare with Magico ?
I have not heard these don’t know anyone owning those or any showrooms with them in my neck of the woods.

Would be interesting if I where at a show to have a listen to know what it’s all about.

The comparison at my #19 post is with the Magico A5 (blue) .Rooms equate thing just fine as always

 

[CJPopovich]

Seems like a large percentage of the people talking about how bad the Wilsons measure and thus must sound, haven't heard them. In the right setup and with the right recording they're spectacular. Not a defense, an observation/opinion. I would never buy them for many reasons, measured performance and value being chief among them, but give the devil his due, for people with deep pockets who walk into a showroom and hear a demo, there is a good chance it's going to sound excellent.

Don't need to know 0-60 time to know a Porsche Turbo is a good driving experience, for those who walk in and hear music without getting all science-y (this is audio SCIENCE review), they're a high end luxury brand that presents well if set up competently. Wilson also does a good job providing custom and quite beautiful finishes, which is part of the experience, and the dealership that I experienced was uncommonly friendly, giving me a 2 hour demo working me all the way up to the Chronos, meanwhile I was dressed in gym shorts and a hoodie and way back then was listening to an older pair of NHT's powered by Crown.

My impressions were very favorable with an impressively large image and pleasant projection, I could see how they demo well. The way they calibrated the bass wasn't to my liking, but that's not unusual, room curves are very subjective.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I've not heard their largest efforts, but a few of the others. They've always sounded pretty darn good to spectacularly good. They have very inert cabinets. The fit, finish and precision of those with adjustable parts is very high even if done to an ostentatious level. The looks are of course subjective, but even if they aren't your cup of tea you'll think them well made. They are very picky about setup. VERY. I think the latter is because they try and achieve 1st order roll offs between drivers which necessarily makes for large up and down off axis response. Like in the Sasha from this Stereophile review:

You'll notice however they aren't too terribly behaved from 2 khz and less in some models 3 khz and less. I think this is why they can be made to work better than some here apparently imagine. Find the spot where the low end works and aim them carefully for the LP. Large B&Ws have always been poor to me. Boom and tinkle sound only big. Lots of their models are poorly behaved off axis even below 2 khz. I wish Wilson would give up the 1st order crossovers and use 24 db/octave. A little attention to directivity along with that and they might really have something that would instead of being super touchy about setup just sound super most anywhere.

 

[DanielT]

I'll bet they go LOUD!

I bet the prospective buyers have never heard a BIIIIG sound before, apart from a live gig's PA rig.

I would guess they at least have good bass extension and SPL...

Wilsons do one thing very well - the bass is really punchy. And I mean it seems to hit you in the chest - you can actually feel it.

If that's the case, high SPL combined with relative distortion, I can definitely see it as appealing to the listener. The highest volume wins, as the saying goes.

If you want ugly big speakers with ok or even slightly questionable FR but with high SPL (even higher than Wilson Audio Speakers) with acceptable level of distortion there are tons of them. At a VERY low price. They are called PA speakers. They are built for that purpose.

 

[Blumlein 88]

If that's the case, high SPL combined with relative distortion, I can definitely see it as appealing to the listener. The highest volume wins, as the saying goes.

If you want ugly big speakers with ok or even slightly questionable FR but with high SPL (even higher than Wilson Audio Speakers) with acceptable level of distortion there are tons of them. At a VERY low price. They are called PA speakers. They are built for that purpose.

Never heard a Wilson sound remotely like a PA speaker. Yes the larger ones can play loud, but people thinking this mainly why people like them are off base.

 

[Sokel]

I wish Wilson would give up the 1st order crossovers and use 24 db/octave. A little attention to directivity along with that and they might really have something that would instead of being super touchy about setup just sound super most anywhere.

Actively bi/tri-amped watt/puppies showed up as soon as the original model went out the market.
It was kind of a known secret back then.

Boy, these things could seriously slam this way, despite their modest size.

 

[DanielT]

Never heard a Wilson sound remotely like a PA speaker. Yes the larger ones can play loud, but people thinking this mainly why people like them are off base.

Okay with a little moderation in that case. PA drivers in speakers designed to appeal to "HiFi people"? I mean there's nothing inherently that contradicts the fact that you can get HiFi sound/quality with high-quality, high-power capable PA drivers.

 

[MattHooper]

I think we have to remember that not everybody is chasing or obsessed with perfect frequency linearity above all.

There’s tons of speakers I’ve heard that I know would be completely dismissed by folks who would say “ oh my God, it’s so easy to make a neutral speaker these days, I can’t believe how this speaker fails” and just write it off. Whereas I’m focussing on other things and saying “ wow that’s doing some really cool stuff!”

And I think that’s true for lots of people.

I remember first hearing a really big pair of Wilson’s in the late 90s/early 2000s at a dealer. They left impression on me. The main demerit point for me was that I felt the tone/timbre was just a bit off.

But aside from that, I was quite stunned with the impression from listening to some jazz pieces - the sensation for essence of the saxophone player being a focused, solid, dense object in front of me rather than a see through phantom really grabbed me. Overall, the sensation of instruments being played in front of me in a very specifically carved out acoustic space was a bit paradigm changing for me.

I haven’t really heard any Wilsons since, so I can’t comment on them.

But it doesn’t seem implausible to me that many listeners can be reasonably impressed by a combination of detail, clarity, vividness, palpability, soundstaging/imaging, and dynamics/punch that many report hearing from Wilson speakers, even if they are imperfect in other respects.

 

[Sokel]

Okay with a little moderation in that case. PA drivers in speakers designed to appeal to "HiFi people"? I mean there's nothing inherently that contradicts the fact that you can get HiFi sound/quality with high-quality, high-power capable PA drivers.

It's not the drivers the PA suffer from, it's the cabinets.
They are suppose to be light (for their size) and that comes with a cost, I mean thickness and bracing are as minimal as possible.

 

[aschen]

The reason evaluation is best done blind and level matched because the brain is easily tricked by impressive looks and mega SPL. Especially if said brain is uninitiated in these topics

 

[MattHooper]

I can tell you lots of speakers like this as this kind of dry hit is one of my vices.
Rocport, Magico, ATC, Vivid, lots of older big stuff, etc.

That’s interesting you mentioned Magico, because on my limited experience Magico it’s sort of the poster boy for limited punch/dynamic engagement.

I’ve only heard a couple of their more expensive loudspeakers at a dealer and a show. And otherwise I had a long careful audition of the Magico A3 speakers. And as detailed and box free as their sound was, one thing that stood out was a “too buttoned up” character, a lack of fun and punch and drive.

There were all sorts of specific instruments and grooves that I was familiar with in many of the tracks, and it was like the bass line or drums just weren’t driving this song in the way that I’ve heard from many other speakers, I like better (including my own). Just sort of dynamically limp.

But hey… that opinion is worth what you paid for it

I can’t rule out, of course that other Magico speakers don’t do better in that regard. (but I have heard this criticism repeated by many other listeners about Magico).

 

[DanielT]

It's not the drivers the PA suffer from, it's the cabinets.
They are suppose to be light (for their size) and that comes with a cost, I mean thickness and bracing are as minimal as possible.

That may be the case, but that can be remedied. IF there is demand for such speakers, that is.

DIY is available, but that is another matter. For example, based on these in the thread linked below that I saw a few days ago. Damn nice build I must say:

Little Big 18" Subwoofer Build

I’ve been building subwoofers for years now, and I’ve always used car audio drivers. However, I recently started building speakers using pro-audio drivers, specifically mid-woofers and horn loaded compression drivers. I love how dynamic and clean-sounding these drivers are, so it was only...

audiosciencereview.com

Just to build on. Take two Lavoce SAF184.03 in sealed boxes, (in small boxes use Linkwitz Transform) in a three-way solution. I know it takes a lot of design, thinking, calculating, testing and so on for it to be a good Hifi speaker, but the potential is there. And high SPL even if Linkwitz Transform is applied.

 

[Sokel]

That’s interesting you mentioned Magico, because on my limited experience Magico it’s sort of the poster boy for limited punch/dynamic engagement.

I’ve only heard a couple of their more expensive loudspeakers at a dealer and a show. And otherwise I had a long careful audition of the Magico A3 speakers. And as detailed and box free as their sound was, one thing that stood out was a “too buttoned up”
character, a lacks of fun and punch and drive.
They were all sorts of specific instruments and grooves that I was familiar with in many of the tracks, and it was like the bass line or drums just weren’t driving this song in the way that I’ve heard from many other speakers, I like better (including my own). Just sort of dynamically limp.

But hey… that opinion is worth what you paid for it

I can’t rule out, of course that other Magico speakers don’t do better in that regard. (but I have heard this criticism repeated by many other listeners about Magico).

The smallest Magicos I have listened to must be the A5 with CH Precision monos.
With Moonchild playing every bass.drum beat threatened to throw us of the chair.

We're not talking tonalities and BS here, it was physical and away from rumble and stuff like subs do, those were pure chest hits.

 

[Sokel]

That may be the case, but that can be remedied. IF there is demand for such speakers, that is.

DIY is available, but that is another matter. For example, based on these in the thread linked below that I saw a few days ago. Damn nice build I must say:

Little Big 18" Subwoofer Build

I’ve been building subwoofers for years now, and I’ve always used car audio drivers. However, I recently started building speakers using pro-audio drivers, specifically mid-woofers and horn loaded compression drivers. I love how dynamic and clean-sounding these drivers are, so it was only...

audiosciencereview.com

Just to build on. Take two Lavoce SAF184.03 in sealed boxes, (in small boxes use Linkwitz Transform) in a three-way solution. I know it takes a lot of design, thinking, calculating, testing and so on for it to be a good Hifi speaker, but the potential is there. And high SPL even if Linkwitz Transform is applied.

18" with 4" VC is serious real estate.
I'm not sure though that they would do as good as they could with a small cabinet in terms of dry punch.

I take 8183A as a reference for the smallest possible bass cabinets when it comes for non-soffit-mounted true high SPL mains.

 

[restorer-john]

So we know they measure terribly, yet this room of folks appears to enjoy them. Have heard them? What do you think?

So @MediumRare How many Wilson based systems and/or demonstrations have you personally experienced?

For me, I've always been impressed, but felt they were, without fail, too bright to my ears. But many of those systems were put together by older audiophiles, often in sparsely decorated designer rooms with a lot of 'live' surfaces. I'm sure in the right room, carefully set-up, they would be just as good, and better than most loudspeakers if you could live with their looks.

 

[MattHooper]

The smallest Magicos I have listened to must be the A5 with CH Precision monos.
With Moonchild playing every bass.drum beat threatened to throw us of the chair.

We're not talking tonalities and BS here, it was physical and away from rumble and stuff like subs do, those were pure chest hits.

Ok, I haven’t heard the A5 so I’m not going to doubt your experience.

(Strange comment about speaker tonality being “bs” though).

 

[jcarys]

I don't think that's the case, I mean I would run for my life every time I listened to those if highs were hot as you describe.
Measurements don't suggest so either.

View attachment 441032

(at JA's room)

Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx V loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements Because of the Alexx V's size and bulk, I measured its performance in Jim Austin's listening room. I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Wilson Audio Alexx V's frequency response in the farfield, an Earthworks QTC-40 microphone...

www.stereophile.com

Maybe confuse them with the new B&W stuff? These are hot, yes.

That is a different model and I did not describe them as "hot". If it's not a high frequency bias, fine, it was only a guess. On well recorded classical or jazz they sounded correct, with a bigger and deeper soundstage than most speakers. They were incredibly well damped, so less resonant than most of the competition.

This is Atkinson's best approximation of the model I heard.

Fig.10, Wilson WATT 3, spatially averaged 1/3-octave response with Puppy in JA's listening room (Blue trace) and without Puppy (red trace).


There are a couple of other things going on in the thread that I find funny. First is the assumption that anything that is expensive is a rip off or just sells because of marketing. Speakers like this come from a small manufacturer and are basically custom built, with far more time spent tuning and channel matching. Materials were all state of the art and expensive, so quite a bit goes into making a product like this. If you're going to put big money into a system, speakers is where you're going to get the results.

The other is that these are so expensive that who would be the nut that would buy them. Again, going back to my experience, the person who owned the Wilsons worked on Wall Street, lived in a massive penthouse, and probably had over $10 million in the bank. To him, $20K for speakers was just no big deal. And got a lot of enjoyment out of his stereo system.