Wilson Audio Speakers: Why do people like them?

[Blockader]

What on-axis EQ did you apply.... cause I can't see you can do much to improve on this:

Measurements for speaker Neumann KH 310A

www.spinorama.org

Depends on how the rear wall bounce is handled inside the room. In my room, my KH 310s had a gigantic 1000 Hz peak that no on-axis EQ could audibly change.

All the problems got fixed after upgrading my speakers to 8361s.

 

[Sokel]

Even with speakers that have decent directivity, using on-axis EQ with peaking filters above 2x / 3x of the room transition frequency is overly optimistic and should be avoided unless absolutely necessary.

I experienced this first hand while I was using KH 310s. I tried everything to fix the KH 310's issues in my room, but despite its good directivity the problems persisted regardless of what on-axis EQ I applied. Making the in-room response tidy & smooth isn't answer to everything. We are cursed and blessed at the same time for not having linear hearing function like microphones have.

Having changed 3-4 different rooms over the years, the first thing I did when I built the previous house was to get people to fix my listening space.
First time I got in it I could ask me and answer to me back in one go (it's about 80 m² )

First thing they proposed to me was a booth around me, I'm not joking. Yes, we had fun before they kick me out to do their job.
But seriously now, that was the room they fixed, no speakers of mine in, just their gear, etc.

I got my suggestions about how to place my speakers in general, what to do, what not to do.
The big "don't"s was to never touch the ceiling treatment and never EQ speakers over 200Hz or so.

And not to believe what I see at REW up-high, even gated (I was in a giant rabbit hole with it in my previous room) .
Also been on the long side of the room, I'm married to at least 500-700ms at RT, no matter the treatment.

With all the above, what I really want to say is that speakers is a minor worry at the big scheme.
As long they are big enough to fill it, have decent bass-midbass and controlled highs (not even a hint of pronounced 4-8kHz, that's an instant headache for me) I'm absolutely fine.

 

[thewas]

I'll stop repeating then.
Even if we agreed that it's EQable and we wanted to EQ it (I wouldn't, not up high at least) do we have reliable anechoic data to do it?

The data from Stereophile are reliable and anechoic, although limited and thus not optimal to use for equalisation but this doesn't change the fact the equalisation cannot correct poor directivity, to quote Toole:

Equalization can address frequency response issues, but cannot fix directivity issues. Consider getting better loudspeakers. Equalizing flawed loudspeakers to match this room curve does not guarantee anything in terms of sound quality.

 

[Pearljam5000]

How can you not like the design and color?

 

[dfuller]

How can you not like the design and color?
View attachment 464112View attachment 464113View attachment 464114

Easily, they're super gaudy.

 

[Sokel]

to quote Toole:

Equalization can address frequency response issues, but cannot fix directivity issues. Consider getting better loudspeakers. Equalizing flawed loudspeakers to match this room curve does not guarantee anything in terms of sound quality.

We agree 100% on that, I have quote it myself lots of times here. I even have it bookmarked
Trying to force our way to get the famous curve is plain wrong.

That's for correcting the room+speakers though. Correcting the speaker anechoically flat is another matter (I wouldn't do it but still).
Unless we get a full set of data we will disagree on Wilson endlessly. So no point, you're right.

Edit: Have a look at today's review. Doesn't get worst than that but Amir still EQ'ed it (4 filters up high!) and strangely it got better to his ears.
I will agree that it's a hit or miss with such a speaker, it could easily get worst.

 

[Chrispy]

TLDR but generally just find Wilson amusing. Never seen one in person, wouldn't go out of my way to do so either. Fugly and not particularly well measuring and from many people I somewhat respect subjective opinions from, not particularly great. Too expensive for what they are certainly.

 

[Digital_Thor]

We agree 100% on that, I have quote it myself lots of times here. I even have it bookmarked
Trying to force our way to get the famous curve is plain wrong.

That's for correcting the room+speakers though. Correcting the speaker anechoically flat is another matter (I wouldn't do it but still).
Unless we get a full set of data we will disagree on Wilson endlessly. So no point, you're right.

Edit: Have a look at today's review. Doesn't get worst than that but Amir still EQ'ed it (4 filters up high!) and strangely it got better to his ears.
I will agree that it's a hit or miss with such a speaker, it could easily get worst.

That speaker has a very even DI, so EQ should be easy - but it's a sighted test... so be cautious

 

[Digital_Thor]

View attachment 464095
Depends on how the rear wall bounce is handled inside the room. In my room, my KH 310s had a gigantic 1000 Hz peak that no on-axis EQ could audibly change.

View attachment 464096
All the problems got fixed after upgrading my speakers to 8361s.

Ah.. that makes a lot of sense.... the wide angle response is not smooth around 1kHz, and your room and placement hits exactly that problematic design of the KH speaker - good point

 

[thewas]

We agree 100% on that, I have quote it myself lots of times here. I even have it bookmarked
Trying to force our way to get the famous curve is plain wrong.

That's for correcting the room+speakers though. Correcting the speaker anechoically flat is another matter (I wouldn't do it but still).
Unless we get a full set of data we will disagree on Wilson endlessly. So no point, you're right.

Edit: Have a look at today's review. Doesn't get worst than that but Amir still EQ'ed it (4 filters up high!) and strangely it got better to his ears.
I will agree that it's a hit or miss with such a speaker, it could easily get worst.

Toole doesn't say that loudspeakers with poor directivity can be equalised with anechoical data.

Also the freshly measured loudspeaker has a decent directivity

compared for example to the Wilson he reviewed, so EQ can work better there.

Again, the Stereophile directivity plots are sufficient to say that their directivites are poor so equalisation won't work as well as with good behaving ones.

 

[Sokel]

Toole doesn't say that loudspeakers with poor directivity can be equalised with anechoical data.

Also the freshly measured loudspeaker has a decent directivity

View attachment 464180
compared for example to the Wilson he reviewed, so EQ can work better there.

View attachment 464181

Again, the Stereophile directivity plots are sufficient to say that their directivites are poor so equalisation won't work as well as with good behaving ones.

In Wilson's case we see a typical 1st order filter (they're stick to that), the other one is just broken at the most sensitive freq range.
1st order filters have their hard core fans, probably Wilson's fans are fixed on them. And as strange as it is speakers with such networks often sound really nice, and been EQ'ed for decades.

Would I choose that? Nope. Although I would like to get a pair of RCA pair from the 50's, there's diamonds mixed and mastered to them.

 

[thewas]

1st order filters have their hard core fans, probably Wilson's fans are fixed on them. And as strange as it is speakers with such networks often sound really nice, and been EQ'ed for decades.

In the end this first order thing electrical crossover was a lot just marketing BS as in the end the only thing that matters is the total acoustic slope which is almost never first order:

Post in thread 'Master Thread: Are Measurements Everything or Nothing?'

Jun 7, 2025

There were many Dynaudio DIY publications, like this design.
View attachment 456049

View attachment 456050
View attachment 456051
View attachment 456052
This is a 6dB/octave design, which is common with many Dynaudio builds. The drivers could certainly be used with other crossover slopes.

Electrical 6 dB/octave which was possible as the drivers have suitable and similar ones, the total acoustic slope which counts for the filter characteristic is usually higher so it was a bit of a misunderstood myth.

What makes 6dB filters so special – Just Blogging

...

• thewas

• 

 

[Sokel]

In the end this first order thing electrical crossover was a lot just marketing BS as in the end the only thing that matters is the total acoustic slope which is almost never first order:

Post in thread 'Master Thread: Are Measurements Everything or Nothing?'

Jun 7, 2025

There were many Dynaudio DIY publications, like this design.
View attachment 456049

View attachment 456050
View attachment 456051
View attachment 456052
This is a 6dB/octave design, which is common with many Dynaudio builds. The drivers could certainly be used with other crossover slopes.

Electrical 6 dB/octave which was possible as the drivers have suitable and similar ones, the total acoustic slope which counts for the filter characteristic is usually higher so it was a bit of a misunderstood myth.

What makes 6dB filters so special – Just Blogging

...

• thewas

• 

Depending the drivers and design it can be even steeper.
But they won't write it at the brochure

 

[thewas]

Depending the drivers and design it can be even steeper.
But they won't write it at the brochure

The problem is that is almost always steeper, so the first order thing is mainly a marketing utopia.

 

[Sokel]

The problem is that is almost always steeper, so the first order thing is mainly a marketing utopia.

There were angry people loyal to Thiel all around when Jim Thiel passed away and the next speakers they made was using 2nd order networks.
Even without listening to them!

Jim Thiel tried really hard to optimize its 1st order filters and was fierce about his choice.

(never liked Thiel, too dynamic limited for my taste, push them and it's like a compressor kicks in)

 

[dfuller]

Jim Thiel tried really hard to optimize its 1st order filters and was fierce about his choice.

So did Dunlavy, and the off axis of those speakers was pretty bad.

First order slopes make pretty looking steps but that's about it. The lobing, especially vertically, is really quite bad.

 

[Pearljam5000]

It would be cool to compare the $10K Tune Tot to much cheaper studio monitors and see which is best

 

[thewas]

View attachment 464281
It would be cool to compare the $10K Tune Tot to much cheaper studio monitors and see which is best

What kind of comparison do you mean?

 

[Pearljam5000]

What kind of comparison do you mean?

To listen to them side by side
Let's say with KH150 or 8341

 

[thewas]

Measurements show it barely will have a chance if uncoloured reproduction is the target, even if we compare their spinorama scores (1.5 for the Wilson and 6.8 for both KH150 and 8341) the difference is huge, usually more than 1 point is significant, of course that doesn't make it impossible for some individuals to prefer it for few reasons.