Willsenton R800i 300B 805 Tube Single-Ended Class A Integrated Amp

[DanielT]

Try something new says TS, hmmm.

I throw out some suggestions, of which some have already been directly or indirectly addressed in the thread:
-Try streaming music, if that is not already done.
(or vinyl if streaming is the only source at the moment)

-Smaller speaker and active subwoofer that receives the signal from the Tandberg 3012 tape out. Volume is then regulated via DAC with volume control.

-Loudspeaker with narrow dispersion.

-Active speakers.

-Fix with room acoustics and/ or EQ (measuring microphone is needed then).

-Keep the stuff as it is complement it with nice headphones. Why not Bluetooth headphones and stream music, listen to internet radio stations (nowadays I do that to around 60%).
(EQ headphones, if the need and /or interest is there)

-If TS really wants to test a tube amp that can color the sound, why not a cheaper solution than Willsenton R800i 300B 805? That is: Dayton Audio HTA200 Integrated Stereo Hybrid Tube Amplifier. Tested by Erin. Costs around $400 from what I can see. Around 100 watts and a wanky FR, if that's TS want:

Amazon.com

 

[mhardy6647]

Remember New Coke?

New Coke — Museum of Failure

In 1985 and launched what was called New Coke. Coca-Cola consumers were furious that the recipe had been changed.

museumoffailure.com

 

[DanielT]

There's a rich history of a leading brand's name (or product name) becoming synonymous with a whole class of products (e.g., Kleenex, Tannoy). If google's AI is to be believed this phenomenon is called genericization.
In the US, at least, dry photocopy reproduction was genericized to Xerox, reflecting the then-utter dominance of that company in the instant dry photocopy market. Many years ago, as its dominance in the industry it had essentially created was starting to slip, Xerox had a popular ad campaign poking fun at their competition.

In the same spirit:

Matsushita:




View attachment 405257
source: https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/technics-class-aa.149633/

Ahaah. But Technics never came up with Class AAA. Or: Super New Class AAA. There they missed something.

 

[mhardy6647]

@Argus -- if you're still out there and looking at this thread you started -- do yourself a favor. If you really want to "taste tubes" (so to speak), try something like this.

300B SE TUBE AMP KIT [ TU-8600R ]

Limited production model for 2018TU-8600, a 300B single-ended tube amp kit released as a limited production model for 2…

www.elekit.co.jp

No nonsense but relatively well executed SE 300B amplifier. Enough power to sound good with many types of music in actual listening spaces with reasonable loudspeakers.

Not sure if they're still available, but a used one shouldn't be too onerous to find. Basic SE 300B amplifier, done well enough to be worth the nontrivial (but also not eye-watering) cost.

 

[SIY]

A question for those in the know: My VTL ST-85 (valve amp) is described as Class AB1. Is this a type of Class A, a type of Class A/B, or something different altogether?

Thanks in advance.

AB1 means the output stage never draws grid current. AB2 means the output stage does draw grid current- you can get higher power, but it adds to the complications of the driver stage.

In commercial amps, including nearly every classic amp, AB1 is nearly universal.

 

[Chr1]

AB1 means the output stage never draws grid current. AB2 means the output stage does draw grid current- you can get higher power, but it adds to the complications of the driver stage.

In commercial amps, including nearly every classic amp, AB1 is nearly universal.

Thanks. So, does AB1 = Pentode, push pull?

(Apologies for the dumb questions. Pretty clearly I need to do some reading up on this!)

 

[Chr1]

@Argus -- if you're still out there and looking at this thread you started -- do yourself a favor. If you really want to "taste tubes" (so to speak), try something like this.

300B SE TUBE AMP KIT [ TU-8600R ]

Limited production model for 2018TU-8600, a 300B single-ended tube amp kit released as a limited production model for 2…

www.elekit.co.jp

No nonsense but relatively well executed SE 300B amplifier. Enough power to sound good with many types of music in actual listening spaces with reasonable loudspeakers.

Not sure if they're still available, but a used one shouldn't be too onerous to find. Basic SE 300B amplifier, done well enough to be worth the nontrivial (but also not eye-watering) cost.

Does anyone know of anything similar, but a power amp, rather than an integrated?

Thanks.

 

[mhardy6647]

Does anyone know of anything similar, but a power amp, rather than an integrated?

Thanks.

Bottlehead in the US has a 300B stereo amp kit.

Kaiju 300B Amplifier Kit - Bottlehead

Kaiju is our premium 300B stereo amplifier that can also be wired as a monoblock for double the power output. Do you have super efficient speakers? You can learn more about the DC Filament Supply upgrade for this kit at this link. This product has a universal power transformer and can be...

bottlehead.com

I have zero experience with this particular offering, but I woudn't bet against Bottlehead for good value in a kit. I was an early adopter of their (his... Doc Bottlehead, aka Dan Schmalle) products, in full disclosure. Still have my Paramour SE 2A3 monoblocks.
I am a 2A3 kind of person (for better or worse).



Y'all can just pretend you don't see the Mad Scientist Audio Black Discus thingies on the loudspeaker cables, OK?

 

[Chr1]

Ahh, but I seem to recall from another thread that the esoteric discus thingies were gratis...Lovely amps.

Thanks. The Bottlehead would be for a pal who fancies building something decent.
My soldering skills are akin to my brain surgery skills (ie non existent/extremely hazardous.)

 

[TimF]

48KG

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

I'm seriously considering purchasing a Willsenton R800i 300B 805 Tube Single-Ended Class A Integrated Amp for my Braun L8100HE speakers. This will be a change from my Tandberg 3012. My questions are: i) Is the sound of the stock tubes good (acceptable) without tube rolling? ii) How long will the stock tubes last prior to having to purchasing new ones?
This is a want from a long lost purchase I didn't make when I heard the Dynaco ST-70 back in the 70's.
Thank you for any input...

There are a few Willsenton threads over on Stereonet.com
Reading them, it looks like a litany of woes to me. I honestly I don’t know why anyone would consider these amps unless they were wanting a project that involved essentially rebuilding/repairing the thing

 

[Blumlein 88]

This brand has a rep for poor design and workmanship. As this reviewer says, they are just junk. Choose another one if you want the SET thing. Skip to the 23:40 mark for the conclusions made on this amp.

 

[Blumlein 88]

There are a few Willsenton threads over on Stereonet.com
Reading them, it looks like a litany of woes to me. I honestly I don’t know why anyone would consider these amps unless they were wanting a project that involved essentially rebuilding/repairing the thing

And even if you "fix it" the transformers are not very good.

 

[DanielT]

If you want a tube amp, you should have a classic. Check the technical data on this one. For a tube amplifier that is over sixty years old, it is really good:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://support.harmankardon.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-masterCatalog_Harman/default/dwac0c0c81/pdfs/CITATION%25202%2520(II)%255EHK%255Eom%255E%255E%255E%255E.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiskICe-9KJAxWJGBAIHc4NAsMQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1424zrHRONz0Rp3HFq0mSn

Edit:
BUT. I wouldn't recommend a more than sixty years old tube amplifier to anyone other than a person who knows how to service and repair it. Or if you buy one that has been; inspected, serviced, electronics replaced, bias set and measured. Documented and performed by a professional. It will undeniably raise the price in that case.

Actually, the absolute first step is to ask a tube amp knowledgeable person about the model first. That before you even think about buying one that old. What do I know, it might be bloody expensive to repair. Impossible to get hold of spare parts, electronics for it. I don't know.... that's why you ask someone knowledgeable.

Prices seem to be between $1200-$4000:

Used Harman Kardon Citation II Power amplifiers for Sale | HifiShark.com

Used Harman Kardon Citation II Power amplifiers for sale on 400+ second hand hifi sites & shops. Use Hifi Shark to monitor pricing and global availability

www.hifishark.com

 

[mhardy6647]

The Citation II is a redoubtable amplifier; market prices reflect it, too.

 

[SIY]

Thanks. So, does AB1 = Pentode, push pull?

One has nothing to do with the other. Pentodes in push-pull can be run AB1, AB2, B, A, whatever. Ditto triodes or tetrodes or beam power tubes. It's strictly a matter of whether or not you punch the output stage grids with current (i.e., swing voltage above zero) on peaks. Operating point versus topology.

 

[DanielT]

The Citation II is a redoubtable amplifier; market prices reflect it, too.

Hmm. HK Citation II was also sold as a kit I see. Just one more aspect to consider when making a purchase. Is it well put together, good soldering and so on.

Although it seems cool, I would say that HK Citation II is mostly something for electronics knowledgeable people who have tubes as a hobby to keep up with. I mean you don't buy a vintage car that is over sixty years old if you don't have your own workshop and can repair cars. Unless you have a fat wallet and can turn it in to a professional repairman that is. That said, probably a lot cheaper to turn in an old tube amp than an old vintage car to a professional, but still.

Fascinating HiFi history. Also fascinating that such an old tube amplifier can beat the crap out of many modern, even expensive, tube amplifiers:

By Bob Carver

The Citation II was Stu Hegeman’s penultimate masterpiece, inspired by his unwavering desire to build a power amplifier equal to his stunningly great Citation I preamplifier. I consider the Citation II power amplifier to be one of the most original designs in audio history, introducing technology that had never before been seen in an audio product. The Citation II’s high-gain, wide-bandwidth video-pentode design yielded performance that was difficult to believe.

Introduced in 1959, the Citation II sold for $159 in kit form or $229 assembled (about $2000 in 2017 dollars).

TAS Legacy: Harman Kardon Citation II Power Amplifier - The Absolute Sound

TAS Legacy: Harman Kardon Citation II Power Amplifier -

www.theabsolutesound.com

 

[mhardy6647]

Hmm. HK Citation II was also sold as a kit I see. Just one more aspect to consider when making a purchase. Is it well put together, good soldering and so on.

Although it seems cool, I would say that HK Citation II is mostly something for electronics knowledgeable people who have tubes as a hobby to keep up with. I mean you don't buy a vintage car that is over sixty years old if you don't have your own workshop and can repair cars. Unless you have a fat wallet and can turn it in to a professional repairman that is. That said, probably a lot cheaper to turn in an old tube amp than an old vintage car to a professional, but still.

Fascinating HiFi history. Also fascinating that such an old tube amplifier can beat the crap out of many modern, even expensive, tube amplifiers:

By Bob Carver

The Citation II was Stu Hegeman’s penultimate masterpiece, inspired by his unwavering desire to build a power amplifier equal to his stunningly great Citation I preamplifier. I consider the Citation II power amplifier to be one of the most original designs in audio history, introducing technology that had never before been seen in an audio product. The Citation II’s high-gain, wide-bandwidth video-pentode design yielded performance that was difficult to believe.

TAS Legacy: Harman Kardon Citation II Power Amplifier - The Absolute Sound

TAS Legacy: Harman Kardon Citation II Power Amplifier -

www.theabsolutesound.com

Good point. Always worth checking of products sold assembled and as kits.
I have a fairly nice, chocolate-faced HH Scott LK-72 (pp 7591 stereo integrated amplifier; kit version of the equivalent morph of the HH Scott 299*) here with one weak channel. I've tried a few times over the years to find the root cause. I know that the signals are fine on both sides going into the phase splitter - that's as far as I ever got on it.

Early on, my father was still around. He was an excellent troubleshooter and I turned to him for advice often. His succinct observation was something like this: Since it was built from a kit, there's no way to know if it ever worked correctly! You'll probably need to go through every connection from end to end.

That was sure encouraging!

_____________________
* 299C, if google's AI is to be believed.

 

[DanielT]

So it can be.

Incidentally, if you lack practical solder detection eyes, have little or no ability to troubleshoot tube amplifier electronics , or the tools for it..

....BUT possess knowledge and interest in fiddling with the music signal in the digital world, there are MUCH cheaper solutions to get the so-called tube sound than buying an expensive tube amplifier.

First, that sought-after tube distortion via:

Use at your own risk!
I don't know what that means. Irony perhaps?

PKHarmonic VST Plugin - Audiophile Harmonics Generator | Distort documentation

PKHarmonic 1.0 is the initial release of this software. Use at your own risk!

distortaudio.org

Then (tube) EQ an FR that appeals.

Don't ask me how to get that PKHarmonic VST Plugin - Audiophile Harmonics Generator to work with X and Y because I don't know. I just brought it up as an example.

Edit:
This might help:

foobar2000: Components Repository - VST 2.x/3.x Adapter

foobar2000

www.foobar2000.org

 

[SoulsHarbor]

Try something new says TS, hmmm.

I throw out some suggestions, of which some have already been directly or indirectly addressed in the thread:
-Try streaming music, if that is not already done.
(or vinyl if streaming is the only source at the moment)

-Smaller speaker and active subwoofer that receives the signal from the Tandberg 3012 tape out. Volume is then regulated via DAC with volume control.

-Loudspeaker with narrow dispersion.

-Active speakers.

-Fix with room acoustics and/ or EQ (measuring microphone is needed then).

-Keep the stuff as it is complement it with nice headphones. Why not Bluetooth headphones and stream music, listen to internet radio stations (nowadays I do that to around 60%).
(EQ headphones, if the need and /or interest is there)

-If TS really wants to test a tube amp that can color the sound, why not a cheaper solution than Willsenton R800i 300B 805? That is: Dayton Audio HTA200 Integrated Stereo Hybrid Tube Amplifier. Tested by Erin. Costs around $400 from what I can see. Around 100 watts and a wanky FR, if that's TS want:
View attachment 405258View attachment 405259View attachment 405260

View attachment 405261

Amazon.com

Try something new says TS, hmmm.

I throw out some suggestions, of which some have already been directly or indirectly addressed in the thread:
-Try streaming music, if that is not already done.
(or vinyl if streaming is the only source at the moment)

-Smaller speaker and active subwoofer that receives the signal from the Tandberg 3012 tape out. Volume is then regulated via DAC with volume control.

-Loudspeaker with narrow dispersion.

-Active speakers.

-Fix with room acoustics and/ or EQ (measuring microphone is needed then).

-Keep the stuff as it is complement it with nice headphones. Why not Bluetooth headphones and stream music, listen to internet radio stations (nowadays I do that to around 60%).
(EQ headphones, if the need and /or interest is there)

-If TS really wants to test a tube amp that can color the sound, why not a cheaper solution than Willsenton R800i 300B 805? That is: Dayton Audio HTA200 Integrated Stereo Hybrid Tube Amplifier. Tested by Erin. Costs around $400 from what I can see. Around 100 watts and a wanky FR, if that's TS want:
View attachment 405258View attachment 405259View attachment 405260

View attachment 405261

Amazon.com

How do you get bass frequency distortion on a solid state amp?