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Willsenton R800i 300B 805 Tube Single-Ended Class A Integrated Amp

Argus

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Jan 25, 2021
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I'm seriously considering purchasing a Willsenton R800i 300B 805 Tube Single-Ended Class A Integrated Amp for my Braun L8100HE speakers. This will be a change from my Tandberg 3012. My questions are: i) Is the sound of the stock tubes good (acceptable) without tube rolling? ii) How long will the stock tubes last prior to having to purchasing new ones?
This is a want from a long lost purchase I didn't make when I heard the Dynaco ST-70 back in the 70's.
Thank you for any input...
 
I'm seriously considering purchasing a Willsenton R800i 300B 805 Tube Single-Ended Class A Integrated Amp for my Braun L8100HE speakers. This will be a change from my Tandberg 3012. My questions are: i) Is the sound of the stock tubes good (acceptable) without tube rolling? ii) How long will the stock tubes last prior to having to purchasing new ones?
This is a want from a long lost purchase I didn't make when I heard the Dynaco ST-70 back in the 70's.
Thank you for any input...
I bought an R8, I like it but the volume control has gotten scratchy in less than a year.
Look at Skunkie's comments.
 
Is there something wrong with your Tandberg 3012?

Saw this about the Tandberg 3012. Technical data plus a picture of what it looks like inside:
Tandberg_TIA-3012-Daten.jpgmaxresdefault (1).jpg

 
I bought an R8, I like it but the volume control has gotten scratchy in less than a year.
Look at Skunkie's comments.
Thank you for your input. I've looked over Skunkie's site and this has me concerned that this amp will be a never ending project. I'm looking for something to listen to and enjoy not have to work on to improve. I've had a few old cars that cured me of the tinkering. ;)
 
Is there something wrong with your Tandberg 3012?

Saw this about the Tandberg 3012. Technical data plus a picture of what it looks like inside:
View attachment 405000View attachment 405001
Tandberg 3012 is solid and working great, however I've had it for over 40 years and I'm looking for something better/different. The irony is that now that I can afford something better my hearing isn't what it use to be...
 
Thank you for your input. I've looked over Skunkie's site and this has me concerned that this amp will be a never ending project. I'm looking for something to listen to and enjoy not have to work on to improve. I've had a few old cars that cured me of the tinkering. ;)
Buy the Elekit 300B.
 
Tandberg 3012 is solid and working great, however I've had it for over 40 years and I'm looking for something better/different. The irony is that now that I can afford something better my hearing isn't what it use to be...
An ironic bummer that life serves up. :oops: :)

But if your Tandberg 3012 amplifier is in full working order and you want to try something new why not a pair of new speakers instead?:)
Just a thought. You might really like your speakers, what do I know.
 
How to put this gently -- I don't think that tube rolling will add a lot of value (for a "Willsenton"-branded amplifier, that is). ;)

If you, the OP, @Argus, want to go for a big boy SE amplifier, don't try to go cheap (which isn't even cheap, in absolute monetary terms). The iron and vacuum tubes required to do an amplifier like this "right" will not be inexpensive.

Speaking of the OP. Is that "Argus" as in... Argus?

 
Tandberg 3012 is solid and working great, however I've had it for over 40 years and I'm looking for something better/different. The irony is that now that I can afford something better my hearing isn't what it use to be...
If you want to improve the sound of your system don't replace the amp (it's already transparent) but the speakers.
 
IMO - Tubes are dumb, and class-A is dumb. :p

I know nothing about that amp. Tube amps don't necessarily have a "sound" and if they do you can't know what the particular "tube sound" is until you listen.

It's expensive to get good sound from a tube power amplifier (for powering speakers). A tube preamp is also more expensive to make but the cost difference isn't as dramatic.

The same thing goes for class-A. The cost per-watt is higher and they are energy inefficient, generating lots of wasted heat no matter how loud you are listening.

The sound of a GOOD tube amp shouldn't change with different tubes (as long as it's the correct tube). Tubes age, but with a good design the amp will perform properly until the tube goes out-of-spec. Transistors & MSOFETS vary from part-to-part too, but the amplifier is designed to work correctly as long as the solid state parts are in-spec.

...Back in the tube-days MacIntosh amplifiers were known for simply being good amplifiers and I'm sure that's still true with their modern tube (or solid state amps).
 
I bet those Braun speakers are pretty good.
A friend of mine and I are fans of these older speakers, it would be really nice to see some measurements on them.
If the drivers are not damaged, I bet they sound and measure well.
That being said, there are newer speakers that sound different and many that sound better too.

Regarding your amp, that Tandberg is very nice. Hard to beat. 100 W into 8 Ohms is enough for most situations and speakers.
Modern tube amps, including this Willsenton not going to help you. They will not sound materially or measurably different (unless they break or are broken by design), and risk you going off and tube rolling and other expensive and phantasmal approaches to sound. It's also extremely expensive, way more than a decent pair of speakers, and many of these throwback machines are unreliable, despite the fact they are copies of decades old designs. I have a bad feeling about the reliability given the wealth of comments I see on forums, but I don't have data. I can say tubes of any era open you up to reliability issues, modern era way worse. The infrastructure for supporting tube gear is gone, when I was a kid the department store in my town had a tube tester and inventory of tubes, plus a technician. Now I just see people rolling tubes mindlessly on forums with no clue.

For the $2900 I see this Willsenton listed on Amazon, there are a ton of speakers that will actually completely change the sound you have, including some SOTA active speakers.
 
Back in the early '80s, that Tandberg was legit. 100 wpc and retail approaching 2000 DM around these parts, definitely no joke. (It might appreciate a minor overhaul to clean contacts and replace the odd capacitor, but that's about it.) The speakers are nothing to sneeze at either:

brraun-l8100he-kat.jpg

...although from a modern perspective, I can see some potential issues:
1. Nobody would be placing the midrange and tweeter horizontally next to each other any more - horizontal dispersion irregularities are a good bit more critical than vertical ones, and while driver spacing seems decently low and crossover at 3 kHz isn't overly high, I'm still not convinced. First order of business for me would be pulling a monitor and rotating them by +/-90°, using stands of sorts for the proper height if necessary. I would say tweeters facing out, even if that means one side has the tweeter up and the other down - things will never be 100% symmetrical. This'll take some experimentation.
2. Speakers like this have very wide dispersion. I hope your listening room exudes all the plush charm of the time, with plenty of carpets, curtains / drapes, sofas and other furniture. A modern "architect's dream" hellscape with hard flooring, empty walls and tons of window area would be the worst kind of place to put these into.
3. Also, I wonder what kind of level handling a 2" dome crossed over at 500 Hz has.

Instead of looking at vacuum bulb nonsense, I'd be putting my hard-earned pennies towards things that make a real, tangible improvement. For example, that Tandberg no doubt has a tape loop - why not use it to include a DSP unit for room correction, like a miniDSP Flex or at least a 2x4HD (as a modern take on the classic equalizer)? And a measurement microphone (either as USB or XLR with an audio interface)? Any room screws up the bass to some degree, which should be just as obvious to old ears as to younger ones. We have the tools to do something about it now.

Some details on room, listening position, source devices in use and the like would definitely be useful. You can do "hi-fi" in totally different ways nowadays. Some folks have their music on a NAS and are using a streamer... combine one of those with active speakers, and there's precious little left of the classic device stack. You can have nice sound on the computer or a nice headphone setup on the bedside table.
Also, I hope you aren't listening to all the same music you did 30-40 years ago... and a collection that isn't well in the hundreds if not the thousands probably has room for expansion left. This is what we're doing all this for, right?
 
I'm seriously considering purchasing a Willsenton R800i 300B 805 Tube Single-Ended Class A Integrated Amp
Don't, but if you must buy a tube amp go for a push pull output stage.

Single ended tube amps will have higher distortion due to DC in the output transformer and non-linearity in the output tube. All the classic tube amps were class A push pull designs. This removes the effects of DC in the transformer and, according to standard theory, reduces odd harmonic distortion.
 
Single ended tube amps will have higher distortion due to DC in the output transformer and non-linearity in the output tube. All the classic tube amps were class A push pull designs. This removes the effects of DC in the transformer and, according to standard theory, reduces odd harmonic distortion.
Plenty (most) of the pp "classics" operated in Class AB, and McIntosh famously biased their amplifiers to Class B, including at least some of their solid state, output transformer coupled amplifiers.
 
Plenty (most) of the pp "classics" operated in Class AB, and McIntosh famously biased their amplifiers to Class B, including at least some of their solid state, output transformer coupled amplifiers.
I was aware of a few early SS transformer output stages were class B, but I thought the tube (I keep wanting to say valve!) designs were usually class A. Oops.

Edited
 
I was aware of a few early SS transformer output stages were class B, but I thought the tube (I keep wanting to say valve!) designs were usually class A. Oops.

Edited
The inefficiency wasn't appealing, I suspect. Nowadays, class A pp designs are more common -- audiophiles, you know? ;)


mid-1970s Yamaha CA-800 integrated with switch-selectable Class A pp operation. Ca. 50 wpc in Class AB, 15 wpc in Class A (and plenty of power wasted as heat).
 
Even more confusing. At least for me. Class AA. I don't really understand the technical part, but I know that Technics trumpeted it heavily in their marketing anyway: :oops: :)
Screenshot_2024-11-10_132050.jpgScreenshot_2024-11-10_132429.jpg

I had a Technics SU-V45A a few years ago. Quite ok, but as usual I don't hear any difference between different amplifiers (as long as they have enough power). :)

 
A question for those in the know: My VTL ST-85 (valve amp) is described as Class AB1. Is this a type of Class A, a type of Class A/B, or something different altogether?

Thanks in advance.
 
Even more confusing. At least for me. Class AA. I don't really understand the technical part, but I know that Technics trumpeted it heavily in their marketing anyway: :oops: :)
View attachment 405170View attachment 405171

I had a Technics SU-V45A a few years ago. Quite ok, but as usual I don't hear any difference between different amplifiers (as long as they have enough power). :)

Here's a tip: Any "Class A" that is called (in ad copy, owners manual, review, etc.) anything besides Class A is not Class A.
:)
 
There's a rich history of a leading brand's name (or product name) becoming synonymous with a whole class of products (e.g., Kleenex, Tannoy). If google's AI is to be believed :facepalm: this phenomenon is called genericization.
In the US, at least, dry photocopy reproduction was genericized to Xerox, reflecting the then-utter dominance of that company in the instant dry photocopy market. Many years ago, as its dominance in the industry it had essentially created was starting to slip, Xerox had a popular ad campaign poking fun at their competition.


In the same spirit:

Matsushita:
New Class A: It's just as good as Class A
;)
:cool:

1731268288193.jpeg

source: https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/technics-class-aa.149633/
 
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