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Willsenton R8

TrippRyder

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Thomas and Stereo and Jay Soulsik both posted glowing subjective reviews on YT. The balanced Willsenton SET amps look cooler to me, like R800i 805 amp.
How can it be balanced if it's SET? If the inputs are balanced, then i understsnd you possibly get the benefit of reduced noise, but other than that it seems like more of a marketing gimmick than anything.
 

egellings

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In a home stereo setting with short cable lengths, I see no advantage to balanced connections over single ended ones. When cable lengths are long, as in studio settings, then balanced operation makes sense.
 

Helicopter

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I like XLR connectors better than RCA/phono connectors. For me, that is an advantage. They are economical and robust.

Not sure how far the 'balanced' circuit of the R8 goes. It may just go to the input connector.
 

antcollinet

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I like XLR connectors better than RCA/phono connectors. For me, that is an advantage. They are economical and robust.

Not sure how far the 'balanced' circuit of the R8 goes. It may just go to the input connector.
Isn't the benefit of balanced interconnect simply one of noise rejection?

I don't see any benefit of carrying it through the amp arichitecture. In fact if it results in a BTL type output that is a downside as far as I am concerned.
 

Helicopter

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Isn't the benefit of balanced interconnect simply one of noise rejection?

I don't see any benefit of carrying it through the amp arichitecture. In fact if it results in a BTL type output that is a downside as far as I am concerned.
If the devices are actually transmitting a signal on all three wires then you should get better noise rejection and more voltage. The noise rejections doesn't really matter in a domestic setting. The higher voltage should, and in many cases, does, lead to better SINAD. I wouldn't necessarily expect it to lead to better SINAD or higher voltage in the R8, however. But that's not actually what I am talking about. I am just saying XLR connectors themselves are nicer. The are less likely to get jostled loose, they give feedback when they snap into a receptacle, they are directional, in the sense that one end of the cable is male and the other female, so it is easier to avoid mixing up inputs and outputs on any individual device. Note that I am not saying the cable itself does anything directional with the signal, just that as far as inputs and outputs go, plug A goes in jack A and plug B goes in Jack B, so they are more foolproof.
 

ThoFi

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Hi,
I found some audio recordings of the Willsenton R8 on YT.
very nice!


and comparisons with a 225W SS class AB amp


 

egellings

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I actually won't get to hear either amp in their entirety. I'll hear my little computer amp & speakers instead.
 

antcollinet

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Hi,
I found some audio recordings of the Willsenton R8 on YT.
very nice!


and comparisons with a 225W SS class AB amp


They all sounded thin and reedy to me. I'd guess lacking low-mids.

I doubt they sound that bad for real, so probably a bad recording.
 

ThoFi

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Of course this vids are again another reproduction of the recording…
But still I am able to hear differences using my headphones. ( in case its level matched and same mic position)
also room echo is absent
I guess thats why the toe in of the speakers.
The vids are better than most vids with lots of echo
 

egellings

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Wish someone would measure/confirm the performance of some of the OTL(output transformer less) 6C33 or 6080 based tube amps. I’ve seen some with low distortion over wide range(0.05 or less)upto rated output power and low output impedance of 0.1 to 0.3 Ohms. Bandwidths covering easily 10Hz to 100+kHz flat. Or for more conventional output transformer types measure the performance of say an upgraded/restored MC75/MC30 that were used in the navy sonar application back in the 50s. Here’s an example of one https://www.ebay.com/itm/265371867035?hash=item3dc965579b:g:SDIAAOSw5JJhcd9G
Or performance of one of the well designed transmitting tube 845/813/805/211/833 SET types with internal distortion cancellation and nearly no feedback (most commercial designs don’t have proper drive circuits)
OTL amps' performance is highly dependent on the load connected to them.
 

jdegunya

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Hi-fi-ish is more like it.
I wouldn't consider a tube amp HIFi gear. Although helpful in the signal chain, lossless audio and low distortion is not really the end goal of the tube amp. Sound presentation is the goal. Hearing human voices as if they were singing in your room, instrument separation and dynamics so lively that it presents a sort of holographic sound is what I've come to love about my R8 with Heresy's. For these reasons, I would consider tube amps as Audiophile gear instead of HiFi gear. IMO It's really different strokes for different folks.
 

egellings

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I wouldn't consider a tube amp HIFi gear. Although helpful in the signal chain, lossless audio and low distortion is not really the end goal of the tube amp. Sound presentation is the goal. Hearing human voices as if they were singing in your room, instrument separation and dynamics so lively that it presents a sort of holographic sound is what I've come to love about my R8 with Heresy's. For these reasons, I would consider tube amps as Audiophile gear instead of HiFi gear. IMO It's really different strokes for different folks.
If it tickles the nun-handles of the listener in the right way, that is what's important, lab-grade or not lab grade notwithstanding.
 

jdegunya

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Yes Sir. My nun-handles are tickled with my R8 and Heresy IV setup. I've owned Onkyo, Denon, Marantz, PS Audio, Parasound, and NAD solid state amps over the past 15 years. I've easily spent more than $15,000 chasing HiFi and I state without a doubt that the $1,500 I spent on the R8 is Audiophile money well spent for me. I listen to most genres of music. Here's a YouTube link sampling one of my childhood favorites by RUN DMC that I listened to last night, Walk This Way.

 
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jdegunya

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They all sounded thin and reedy to me. I'd guess lacking low-mids.

I doubt they sound that bad for real, so probably a bad recording.
Here's my sample of Pink Moon by Nick Drake. iPhone 14. No room treatment.

Signal Path:
Bluesound Node -> R8 -> Heresy IVs

 

antcollinet

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Here's my sample of Pink Moon by Nick Drake. iPhone 14. No room treatment.

Signal Path:
Bluesound Node -> R8 -> Heresy IVs

Sounded pretty much how I'd expect an iphone recording to sound : Terrible.

Lack of high end for me - and no, not what I'd expect tube warmth to sound like. Lack of detail and general dullness/muddiness. I hope when you play that video, you're also not hearing what your system normally sounds like.
 

jdegunya

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Sounded pretty much how I'd expect an iphone recording to sound : Terrible.

Lack of high end for me - and no, not what I'd expect tube warmth to sound like. Lack of detail and general dullness/muddiness. I hope when you play that video, you're also not hearing what your system normally sounds like.
Nice criticism buddy. Please provide a recording of your system so I can be so enlightened.
 

Keith_W

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I think his point was: do not try to evaluate the sound of a system via a phone recording, which has been compressed by Youtube, and listened to on computer speakers. With so many variables in the chain it is impossible to determine what caused what.
 

antcollinet

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Nice criticism buddy. Please provide a recording of your system so I can be so enlightened.
There is no point of recording a system in a listening room - it will always sound terrible. Even if you don't use a phone microphone. And I don't know why you are surprised - you literally replied to my post in which I said the same thing about some other system recordings, and where I also said the system probably sounds fine but the recording will be bad.
 

jdegunya

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There is no point of recording a system in a listening room - it will always sound terrible. Even if you don't use a phone microphone. And I don't know why you are surprised - you literally replied to my post in which I said the same thing about some other system recordings, and where I also said the system probably sounds fine but the recording will be bad.
Gotcha. I was merely attempting to provide a difference in presentation. My power tubes are Electro-Harmonix EL34 whereas the stock tubes are KT88s which were shown in your original video post. To me there is an obvious difference in presentation of the sound between both videos. And, yes, obviously, nothing is going to sound it's best over the internet. Even replying in that fashion is an asinine afterthought.
 
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