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Will this supercapacitor bank work for my Ifi Zen Can?

That's taken care of by the internal DCDC converter.

I have no idea how high the leakage current, nor the ripple is though. I'm sure it will work.

Something like this will also be fine:

or this (barrel = 2.1mm):

 
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That's taken care of by the internal DCDC converter.

I have no idea how high the leakage current, nor the ripple is though. I'm sure it will work.

Something like this will also be fine:

or this (barrel = 2.1mm):


yeah, I mean I know that the internal circuit conditions the power so to speak.

but I wonder why Thoren L recommends a linear power supply?

thanks man
 
but I wonder why Thoren L recommends a linear power supply?
There's a lot of superstition behind this. Volts is volts, amps is amps, and these days, they are best supplied by switchers.
 
There's a lot of superstition behind this. Volts is volts, amps is amps, and these days, they are best supplied by switchers.

im not technically educated enough to reply to that.
but he and others say that from the very nature of a linear power supply the noise is less. On the other hand, the entire power circuit has to be designed well.
why my benchmark stuff uses all SMPS power supplies. But they are made super well and desinged for audio.
 
Would that supercapacitor bank along with a cheap power supply filter out EMI and ripple as well?
 
but he and others say that from the very nature of a linear power supply the noise is less.
That is just out and out incorrect. The quietest supply I've ever tested was a switcher.
 
Would that supercapacitor bank along with a cheap power supply filter out EMI and ripple as well?
A 50 cent regulator will, and even more effectively.

EMI is much more a factor of topology and RF filtering.
 
Noise in switching PS is mainly high frequency spikes, massively detectable in some dirt-cheap PS.
The GST25A05-P1J is a great example on how a SMPS should be made.
Just a handle of mv pp ripple, it works really fine even with a oh-so-picky dac like the E30.
Granted.
 
yeah, I mean I know that the internal circuit conditions the power so to speak.

but I wonder why Thoren L recommends a linear power supply?

thanks man
You do realize that the power supply IN the amp is a switcher .... :)
That one (with its 2* 1000uF per voltage rail) determines the 'quality' of the power in the amp itself.
 
You do realize that the power supply IN the amp is a switcher .... :)
That one (with its 2* 1000uF per voltage rail) determines the 'quality' of the power in the amp itself.

ha , yeah Thoren said so himself.

which is odd why he insists on me getting a linear power supply and supercap
 
You do realize that the power supply IN the amp is a switcher .... :)
That one (with its 2* 1000uF per voltage rail) determines the 'quality' of the power in the amp itself.

this is what he replied to me


I’m still confused on what to use for my Zen Can Sig for power

External Power supply - high current, high peak current. Supercaps and linear from AliExpress at a grand total well below 100 Bux delivered is what I recommend.

Linear power supplies with dual chamber EI core transformers have the lowest coupling of noise from mains.

Linear power supplies with off the shelf toroidal or R-Core transformers without special construction are much worse. They are often worse than the iFi' s switching supplies for which I developed a special transformer design that allows to pass EMC testing without needing the usual "Y" capacitor.

Common "cooking" switching power supplies are worst of all with a 2200pF or greater capacitor coupling mains noise into the audio ground.

The Zen can has circuitry onboard That lowers noise from a power supply.

No.

It has an on board switching power supply operating at 1.2MHz (typical plugtop units run at 0.067MHz) that turns 5V into +/-12V and has it'd own regular build in.

The noise on the +/-12V depends only on this system, external noise on the 5V input is not really relevant.


So if we use pretty much any power supply with good current and a capacitor bank, won’t the capacitor bank condition the power to eliminate most of the noise and EMI?

EMI is a "grab bag", there are different aspects.

Any power supply connected to mains will allow a small amount of mains noise (not just 50/60Hz but quite wide band) to "leak" into the circuit ground.

This noise (current) wants to flow to earth, somehow. In the process it can create as much as 1/2 mains voltage as noise Voltage between different pieces of equipment, depending on design, construction and system setup.

So it's system dependent.

All else being equal, less noise leakage from the mains is better. Note that this is not the same as "power supply noise" which is between +/- but it is in effect a separate noise between signal ground and earth.

Do we ‘ need’ to get a linear power supply?

We "need" nothing. But if improved sound quality is desired and we want to also "hedge" against potential sound quality problems, inexpensive chinese linear power supplies offer currently the best choice at a price that compares favourably with most "audiophile" options.

Adding Supercapacitors can help in other areas.

Thor
 
I mean he is an engineer with a degree. He isn’t some fake.
I know him quite well and for many decades. The former is not an assurance of the latter.
 
I know him quite well and for many decades. The former is not an assurance of the latter.

ok I did not know that of course. How do you know him if you don’t mind me asking?
 
Would that supercapacitor bank along with a cheap power supply filter out EMI and ripple as well?
Maybe not as effectively as a capacitance multiplier circuit!
 
Maybe not as effectively as a capacitance multiplier circuit!

And if you replace the capacitor sitting at the base with a voltage reference e.g. diode, you get a linear regulator.
 
We have the CEA-2006/490A standard: 1kHz sine wave signal that utilizes a 8 ms burst at full power with a THD+N <1% followed by 24 ms pause. This is repeated every 32 ms with a 6dB Power Crest factor. but this is not what I'm talking about here because notice the duration numbers: The period is only 32ms long.

Except that is not the CEA-2006/490A standard...*

The original EIA from IHF A-201 ('66) standard, which became the EIA 490a/CEA 2006 is 1kHz 20mS at full power (0dB), 480mS at -20dB, (500mS total) repeated. So an 8.8% duty cycle.

The test you referenced and pasted is the EIAJ (Japan) burst test. It's also constantly repeated, not just a single 32mS period. It's basically a 25% duty cycle.

Amir already performs the CEA-2006 burst testing on amplifiers he tests.

* Copy and paste will bite you. :)
You'd think a manufacturer (Marani) quoting a 'standard', showing an AP's generator screen, and measuring their gear (supposedly) would read their instrument's user manual? I guess not.

Wrong:
1716943387808.png


Here's Audio Precision's own documentation (https://www.ap.com/blog/signal-gene...udio-analyzers-part-2-regulation-measurements) regarding the test.

1716943568713.png


And the APX-500 user's manual showing the panel:

1716944933875.png

1716944399720.png
 
Just to add to the above post and make the whole post a bit more visual, here's a couple of scope shots of the two actual tests.

EIA (zoomed to 2mS- count them!)
RIGOL Print Screen29-05-2024 11_25_23 AM.665.png


EIAJ: (zoomed to 5mS) 8 cycles, then nothing, repeated.
RIGOL Print Screen29-05-2024 11_26_45 AM.265.jpeg
 
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Just to add to the above post and make the whole post a bit more visual, here's a couple of scope shots of the two actual tests.

EIA (zoomed to 2mS- count them!)
View attachment 371762

EIAJ: (zoomed to 5mS) 8 cycles, then nothing, repeated.
View attachment 371763

can you explain what the graphs mean in the context of this thread for me who doesn’t know please?

much obliged !
 
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