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Will Double Bass Array improve bass in my room?

Mishaiger

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Jun 15, 2020
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Hello, i have this room:
IMG_20250227_185803.jpg

Room itself is very small, about 2.6 x 2.5 x 2.1 meters. 10 cm acoustic insulation on every surface, except floor.
There are 4 subs total at corners, 12 inch. 2 front and 2 at the back, about 40 cm lower than front (not in this picture). Subs not inverted, though back subs are looking at wall, without any delay.
Its budget setup with AVR Denon x3600h outputting 5 speakers and 4 subs, using EQ APO on PC.

I've been listening in this room for over a year, and thought it was very good, mostly stereo.
Due to circumstances i left this house and now live in another.
I bought myself 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM and JCALLY JM20 MAX Headphone Dongle. Initially, speakers in this room and Zero:2 sounded very similar, but after listening Zero:2 for more than 2 months, i can clearly say that i hear much cleaner bass in Zero:2, especially when watching movies at louder volumes.
Now i have opportunity to create similar, improved room.
I started researching Double Bass Array and it quickly became obvious that DACs and Amps will be very expensive. Since i need 7 speakers and 8 subwoofers, all from PC. My only option is to hire a specialist, who will design and construct DIY DAC + Amps for my purpose, its much cheaper than buying ready solutions, though still quite expensive for me. I'm talking about ~4000$ vs ~1500$.

And now I'm wondering if DBA is really worth it. I've been reading forums about DBA, some have measurement, lets compare it to mine, in this room, with this setup.

Vs 1.png


Vs 2.png


Vs 3.png


Vs 4.png


DBA vs my room are relatively close.

Here is the rest of my measurements:
My1.png
My2.png
My3.png

My6.png
My4.png
My5.png

My7.png
My9.png
My8.png


From what i can tell, looking at these, perhaps i have problematic decay from 20 to about 800 hz. Because, from about 800 and up decay is limited by mic noise, so it probably extends even lower than 30 dB (from 105 dB!).

At my default listening volume, 86 dB at peak, 0 dBFS, this room and headphones sounds roughly same for me. But when comparing 105 dB peak, at movies, difference is day and night, in bass only, rest of the sound is roughly same. I can hear every nuance in bass, in headphones. Bass in room is all muddy, compared to headphones. Of course, bass in whole room, which you can fell, is cooler for movies.

So, i was wondering, will adding another 4 subs (to a total of 8) and setting them up as DBA will be worth it? Will it bring bass to headphones level, or at least near, compared to this room?
 

Attachments

Not sure I follow the chars, but chart 13/14 as it shows on my screen is something that is not often seen. Or probably the best I have ever seen :D. Was that with DBA or without? If without, then truly you don't need it.
 
I just got to ask, is that how your room looks and how you spend your time by the computer and watch movies?
And yeah, those measurements looks extremely good! I'm jealous!
 
Hello, i have this room:
View attachment 462040
Room itself is very small, about 2.6 x 2.5 x 2.1 meters. 10 cm acoustic insulation on every surface, except floor.
There are 4 subs total at corners, 12 inch. 2 front and 2 at the back, about 40 cm lower than front (not in this picture). Subs not inverted, though back subs are looking at wall, without any delay.
Its budget setup with AVR Denon x3600h outputting 5 speakers and 4 subs, using EQ APO on PC.

I've been listening in this room for over a year, and thought it was very good, mostly stereo.
Due to circumstances i left this house and now live in another.
I bought myself 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM and JCALLY JM20 MAX Headphone Dongle. Initially, speakers in this room and Zero:2 sounded very similar, but after listening Zero:2 for more than 2 months, i can clearly say that i hear much cleaner bass in Zero:2, especially when watching movies at louder volumes.
Now i have opportunity to create similar, improved room.
I started researching Double Bass Array and it quickly became obvious that DACs and Amps will be very expensive. Since i need 7 speakers and 8 subwoofers, all from PC. My only option is to hire a specialist, who will design and construct DIY DAC + Amps for my purpose, its much cheaper than buying ready solutions, though still quite expensive for me. I'm talking about ~4000$ vs ~1500$.

And now I'm wondering if DBA is really worth it. I've been reading forums about DBA, some have measurement, lets compare it to mine, in this room, with this setup.

View attachment 462054

View attachment 462055

View attachment 462056

View attachment 462057

DBA vs my room are relatively close.

Here is the rest of my measurements:
View attachment 462059View attachment 462060View attachment 462061
View attachment 462064View attachment 462067View attachment 462068
View attachment 462065View attachment 462069View attachment 462066

From what i can tell, looking at these, perhaps i have problematic decay from 20 to about 800 hz. Because, from about 800 and up decay is limited by mic noise, so it probably extends even lower than 30 dB (from 105 dB!).

At my default listening volume, 86 dB at peak, 0 dBFS, this room and headphones sounds roughly same for me. But when comparing 105 dB peak, at movies, difference is day and night, in bass only, rest of the sound is roughly same. I can hear every nuance in bass, in headphones. Bass in room is all muddy, compared to headphones. Of course, bass in whole room, which you can fell, is cooler for movies.

So, i was wondering, will adding another 4 subs (to a total of 8) and setting them up as DBA will be worth it? Will it bring bass to headphones level, or at least near, compared to this room?
nope. no need. seems more like a want
 
If your mic was actually turned on when you made the 13th graph (mostly kidding) you're in great shape. I think most people with actual DBAs would be jealous of that result.

That said if your goal is to get headphone bass in-room, you are starting from the right place and a DBA (or adding a bunch of tuned absorbers) may be the only ways to get further improvement.

But honestly this post is like John Cena posting on a regular fitness forum and asking for tips on growing his biceps. Mostly we can just see the current state and say good job.
 
Well the closest credible comparison (this is internet unfortunately) is this:


Huge system, huge spend, but great results, with some help from the EQ. Not expressing any opinion as to value though.

My system is not too shabby, but I really feel bad when looking at these decay charts and wanting to open the can of worms that was put to rest a while back.
 
Which microphone are you using? What is your listening distance and measuring distance with the microphone? I guess you are sitting very close since the room is so small. I suspect that's why you're struggling with playing as loud as 105dB. The room is simply too small.

The frequency response looks ...strange. First of you all you have zero lift in the bass, this rarely sounds good unless you sit very close (which I guess you do), or perhaps if you are an anechoic chamber (which you possibly almost are). Does the amount of bass sound right to you?

Second: The response is quite uneven in the top end, it almost looks like your response is on its head, usually it's way more uneven in the bass, and not so much in the top end. Especially with that amount of dampening it's strange so have so uneven response in the top end, unless it's the speakers themselves that have this response?

I assume these are stereo measurements? Would be interesting to see left + right individually as well.

I have a semi-anechoic corner I use for measuring speakers for development. The measurements from that looks suspiciously similar to yours (expect the irregularities at the top), your decay is even lower. Which I why I am wondering about the measurement distance.

1752042531195.png

1752042553112.png
 
A DBA is a way to avoid excitation of low frequency room modes.
This very small (and squarish) room has only very few such modes. The first length and height modes (2.5m and 2.6m) at 65-70Hz and the first height mode (2.1m) at 82Hz.
The mentioned modes can be found above in the RT60 graph, but possibly this is partly a contribution from the main speakers.
These (and the second length and width modes at 130-140Hz) can be avoided to the most part (as the OP did) with 4 subs by appropriate positioning, so there is no need for more subs (not even for a DBA) or a source-sink arrangement.

My idea would be to push the subs a bit into the middle of the wall on 1/4 position.
Whether this is actually better as the position in the corners is a matter of experiment of course.
But it would be quite simple to compare it to a DBA, as this would use the identical positions, just with a invert and delay for the two subs in the back (killing 6dB of sound pressure?). See below.
sub on 25percent.jpg



DBA_4subs.jpg


In a sealed room the bass (in both versions) looks even better ;-)
 

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  • RT60_room.jpg
    RT60_room.jpg
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Thank you all for replies.
About movies, i watch them at this 15 inch screen, but hey, its bright oled...
About RT60, i really like this dry sound without much reflections.
About room, the size of the room that I wrote above is already with insulation, in fact the room is 2.8 x 2.7 x 2.2 meters. So we should use this size in room simulation, since 10 cm of insulation is almost nothing for frequencies 100 hz and below. Here is a rough room sketch: (not quite real size)
sketch.png

I was using UMIK-1 to take measurements. LP is 1.15 m from every speaker. Measurement i've shown is actually single center speaker + 4 subs. Speakers are JBL Stage a125c.
About uneven treble. I've been holding mic close to my head, so its probably reflections. Using Moving Mic Method produces very even response.
About amount of bass. I thought it was fine, but after listening to headphones, i'd say i miss about 2 dB.

I have made some mistakes in above room. Rear speakers position, for example. They have bad SBIR, about 15 dB sharp drop somewhere from 120 to 160 hz.
I'm thinking about how to construct new room. Here is another rough sketch:
sketch2.png

I will position speakers as close to wall as possible, to move SBIR higher in frequency, and use 20 cm of insulation to further reduce it.
Using REW room simulation is great, but real decay can be measured only in real room.
Subwoofers are partly inside of insulation.
This room size will be 2.9 x 2.7 x ~2.3 meters + i will add 20 cm of insulation to every surface, except floor.
10 cm of insulation works great from about 200 hz and up. My plan is to passively absorb frequencies from 100 hz and up, and 20 cm should do it. Below 100 hz DBA will cancel out, hopefully, most of decay. From my understanding, DBA will only cancel out length room modes, to additionally cancel width modes i'll need something like TRIPLE Bass Array... and so on.
This sketch is for 8 subs DBA, if using 4 subs in corners, i'll make room slightly bigger.
I'll also be upgrading speakers to something with less distortion, especially at subs crossover frequency (80-120 hz) and woofer frequencies in general (80-1000+ hz, depending on crossover).

My big limitation with current room is AVR Denon 3600. Its working in 7.1 + bi amp mode. I connect L and R to 4 subs (bi amp), but in exchange i only have 5 speakers, instead of 7. And PC sees this as 7.1 mode, so i reroute rear channels sound to side channels, it's not great.
I'm pondering about how much i'm willing to spend on DACs and Amps, because 7.8(DBA) is going to be more expensive than 7.4 sound.
You could say i can connect lfe out from AVR to something like MiniDSP hardware, and then connect 8 subs with eq and delay, and you will be right. But that is not enough for me. I absolutely need stereo bass, not for localization, but for playing tracks with bass out of phase. Something that my current AVR can't do. I also need redirection. Maybe someone of you know about AVR with such capabilities? Or, at least, semi budget setup to enable connecting 7.8 channels with eq, delay and such?

I will be constructing new room anyway, so... i guess, my current problem is DACs, Amps, AVRs. If its not very expensive, why not try DBA, subwoofers are quite cheap, since i construct them myself.
I'll be happy to hear comments about new room idea and about DACs, Amps, AVRs.
 
I absolutely need stereo bass
So you don't need DBA. [in the strict sense of the word]
Also you don't need DBA with such bass.
It's not clear where the room modes went.

ps: Also, with the four subwoofers you have, you can experiment with DBA.
 
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That waterfall is incredible very similar to mine. Down about 20dB very quickly. I also appreciate dry sounding room. I imagine the mixing/mastering engineer put whatever ambience i need into the recording.
 
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