Really. You've asked for possible factor, I gave you an example. Of course there are ways of limiting/eliminating the impact, they exist because the influence exists as well.
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WiiM Ultra
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And I'm pretty sure that a lot of people uses transmission protocols where the source clock matters, including spdif or i2s.
Yorkshire Mouth
Major Contributor
No, that’s back to front. Being transparent means that the device doesn’t interfere with the original signal in any way which is audible.
Therefore, if two devices measure as transparent, that doesn’t mean they measure identically. It just means that all measurements are below the threshold of audibility.
Example - distortion is inaudible (and has been proven to be so) below around 115dB. The Pro Plus’ jitter measurements are 130dB, so transparent. The next device might be -116dB, or -150dB, that’s not measuring the same, but it is sounding the same.
An analogy. A piece of glass. No piece of glass is perfect. But you can get glass perfect enough that you can’t see it. You can get 3 pieces of glass which all distort the light passed through them. But if the distortion of that light is less than the human eye can detect, then whatever you’re looking at through those three pieces of glass will look identical.
Yorkshire Mouth
Major Contributor
Here you go.
Understanding Jitter in Digital Audio: Measurements and Listening Tests
Yet another video, this time on topic of jitter. It is a tough topic to cover and I had to do it over and simplify it from my first "take." Hopefully you can follow it. :) Article: understanding digital audio measurements...
audiosciencereview.com
So I can assure you that the PSU used to power the Pro Plus makes a measurable difference on its analog output. And as per your statements above and this one about the Ultra "With the PSU used, it’s transparent." it's not guaranteed that the Ultra with the the built-in SMPS will always measure better than the Pro Plus.
Do you know a way to measure all possible aspects of how the device sounds?
Here I am, but what is it about and how it is related to what I wrote?Here you go.
Understanding Jitter in Digital Audio: Measurements and Listening Tests
Yet another video, this time on topic of jitter. It is a tough topic to cover and I had to do it over and simplify it from my first "take." Hopefully you can follow it. :) Article: understanding digital audio measurements...
staticV3
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Null tests using real music.
There is still an open question how exactly compare and measure differences for these real music samples, I assume that you know DeltaWave for example.
It states that there will be no audible differences between two transparent devices. Any defects below the level of audibility.
It never does though. With modern competently designed dacs.
It is also prettty unlikely if you think about it.
1 - The digital input is transformer isolated so even if there is noise on the connection almost none is going to get through.
2 - That little that does goes straight into the ground of the digital section of the DAC - where all the high speed switching digital devices and clocks will be generating many orders of magnitude more noise than gets through the interface.
3 - All that digital noise is carefully isolated from the analogue section of the DAC such that only inaudible levels (way way below audibility) ever find their way through to the analogue output.
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It "never does" but only with the subset of DACs... Funny thing.
What about these less modern and less competently designed?
staticV3
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A full Deltawave measurement report combined with ABX results (built into Deltawave IIRC) would give a much more believable picture of transparency/audibility than a variety of synthetic test results and interpretation thereof.
Yorkshire Mouth
Major Contributor
Yorkshire Mouth
Major Contributor
Don’t think that your MO isn’t obvious.
No matter what point is made, no matter how solidly and clearly, just ask another question, and have people chasing their tails.
The members of these forums are not your lackeys.
I fully agree with that. Though there is still unproven assumption that PK metric is a correct way of comparisons here as well as the subsample matching etc. Anyway I prefer it wholeheartedly, but I still don't know which devices are "transparent" and which ones are not based on this tool.
It will be enough if you answer the question I asked you already.
Yorkshire Mouth
Major Contributor
Time and time and time again.
It happens every time when you provide a content which is not a reasonable answer to the question.
JustCoolin‘
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Which aspects would this be - assuming in both cases a bit perfect transmission to the same external DAC? I am a bit confused how some of the aspects you lot discuss above would even play a role here, in this constellation.
First - modern means anything younger than 10 years.
Second - competently designed is most of them.
As for the rest, I'd be prepared to bet 99% of those are not audibly affected also - but I don't have access to measurements to prove it.
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