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WiiM Ultra with 2 FOSI V3 MONO or an AB amplifier ?

The MOST important component is your speakers

To save money, the power amplifier should be "just enough + a bit more" right sized for the speakers. Then if you upgrade speakers, you will be limited to choices just as sensitive (SPL efficient).

But if your budget allows, going "a lot more" than you need on the power amp(s) gives you more flexibility in upgrading to new/better speakers in future, so longevity can mean better value long term.

Otherwise, consider "power is power" you're not boosting overall "quality SQ" even spending thousands more.

Learning measurement & EQ / Room compensation will (can) make a HUGE audible difference in SQ.

The Wiim Ultra will be a great front end, source & preamp, and let you dip your toes in DSP.

But if you're keeping the existing speakers, only doing 2 or 2.1, and they are fully driven to your desired SPL by say Fosi level power output

the Wiim Amp Ultra wins for integration simplicity.
 
Super clean measurements there, but are you using another preamp or DAC to handle the balanced only inputs?

Not that much more power, is that "the right level" you need for all the speakers you'll buy as your main full-range pair?

Or just for the pair you currently own.

That factor is primary, have you specified it?
 
john61ct said:
Super clean measurements there, but are you using another preamp or DAC to handle the balanced only inputs?

Not that much more power, is that "the right level" you need for all the speakers you'll buy as your main full-range pair?

Or just for the pair you currently own.

That factor is primary, have you specified it?
Click to expand...
Dear John61ct.

I will buy for the amps, a WiiM Ultra streamer/dac.

I bought a pair of PhonOphone G1, db 87 that I got for 300€,
please see the image below. They seem to be in good shape and
the bass drivers are new and if they come out alright,
I will find someone to change/renovate the filters.

When I listened to these PhonOphone's in the seller's home, they sounded fantastic
to me, but I am a newcomer here. We compared them with the sellers DIY
very big horn speakers, 30 years of experience (his music room looked like a laboratory),
and the difference between his horns and the PhonOphone was not so incredible.
As he said, I am crazy to sell them for 300 bucks.

Whenever I can get to make my first REW reading, I will show you
because listening is so utterly subjective.

I also have a pair of DIY line arrays, that sounded to me, five years
ago with 2 simple Alientek amps also amazing, but I am sure
that to your standards, I have a long way to go ;)

My room :
The ceiling is 3 meters (10 feet) high
with a surface of 4.5x6 meters (15 x 20 feet)
2 big windows to one side.

So I now wonder, shall I go for a
used AB amp like this Topping LA90 that delivers 120 watt AND
that I later can convert for more power by buying a second one
to get a 2x 180 watts system
or
any these 3 D amps :
  • Fosi V3 mono-amps : 240W 4Ω
  • 3E Audio A7 : 2x 250W into 4 ohm
  • AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S125NC Power Amplifier Ncore NC122MP Hypex : 2x125W @ 4Ω
Thank you John.
 

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I am just a noob here, and have not found any power handling specs for those speakers.

Minimum watts, maximum watts?

You cite the mfg power specs (hardly reliable) at 4Ω - but the the actual rated speakers' impedance is 8Ω that is what is you need to use in comparing.

How LOUD do you want to push them? What amp did the seller use to demo?

Is saving money important to you?

IMO if investing more in the Hypex type for future longevity (read my previous on that), then you should step up, go for higher power output.

You can take the Fosi off the list, the 3e A7 is the same type but a little superior.

If you cannot decide get the one you can most easily return if you try it and then realise you need more power.

If that is true for both, then the A7 should be great "value for the money"
 
john61ct said:
The MOST important component is your speakers

To save money, the power amplifier should be "just enough + a bit more" right sized for the speakers. Then if you upgrade speakers, you will be limited to choices just as sensitive (SPL efficient).

But if your budget allows, going "a lot more" than you need on the power amp(s) gives you more flexibility in upgrading to new/better speakers in future, so longevity can mean better value long term.

Otherwise, consider "power is power" you're not boosting overall "quality SQ" even spending thousands more.

Learning measurement & EQ / Room compensation will (can) make a HUGE audible difference in SQ.

The Wiim Ultra will be a great front end, source & preamp, and let you dip your toes in DSP.

But if you're keeping the existing speakers, only doing 2 or 2.1, and they are fully driven to your desired SPL by say Fosi level power output

the Wiim Amp Ultra wins for integration simplicity.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you. I could also try and buy locally since someone selling here for 50€ a Pioneer SA 820 with 2x 130 watt and this way see how much power i would need. I can always re sell it for 50€
 
From here I see 45Wpc into 8Ω but yes certainly if that unit makes you happy so will the A7.

I would test it thoroughly before paying though, avoid if it needs maintenance / repair
 
Thank you John, I understand,

but the idea is not to keep this amplifier that I have now negotiated to 30€,
(after testing I can give it to Emmaüs here in France who sell to finance homeless people and so on)
but only to test and see if the power of 130 watts is enough with my 87db speakers ?

Perhaps such a test is not possible the way I think it is ?

You write : From here I see 45Wpc into 8Ω ?

To be honest and risk to make me look like a total newborn here,
I have little understanding about the 2 and 4 and 8 ohms,
I have to do some reading about this.

I have for a small exception five years ago where a friend of mine
did all the configuration, not been listening to music at home since 1980.
I have however been to many concerts. Now being 68, I would like to
create a great sound at home but everything since 1980 has changed.

My thought was that if this Pioneer 130 watt amp for only 30€
sounds weak with my 87db speakers
that I will certainly go for the 3E 2x250 watts

or discuss with my love if we could buy either
2 of the Topping LA 90 (2x 180 watts)
that from what I read is so incredible,
or the Audiophonics AP300-S250NCX Hypex NcoreX NCx252MP 2x 250 watts.

I understand more and more as well that the sound of amplifiers
is not that of a big deal but that it is more about noises coming through behind the music.

Thank you John.
 
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Remember LA 90 are great measuring SQ but balanced wire input only so more complication from Wiim Ultra unbalanced RCA output.

Plus overkill on cost, IMO unnecessary for you, not an audible difference.


RaymondFromThePyrénéés said:
more about noises coming through behind the music.
Click to expand...

No all these will not be a problem, really just the price vs power question.

And longevity, build quality...

...

Amplifier Watts power ratings from the mfg are not precise, better to get measurements from user reviews, especially from this site.

The ohm impedance of the speaker has a big impact, since yours is 8 ohm you need THAT power rating not for 4 ohm as you have been quoting wrong about all those amps - e.g. that Pioneer is 45Wpc not 130.

So give it a try and report back.
 
Thank you again John. From all this research, I think that my choice will be the AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S250NCX Amplificateur de Puissance Class D Stéréo NcoreX NCx252MP 2x250W 4 Ohm, then I have something to grow with. I suppose that if I would like to use this amp in the futur for bi amping
 
The LA 90 sure measures good, but is rather low on power. So it has to be a good match with the use case. I would not accept an external psu at that price level, but that's subjective.

I'm not sure what to make of those speakers. But I think the 2x250w amps, 3e or Hypex, will serve you well. They bring a lot of power also for 8 ohms.
 
yes, thank you, I will explore these speakers in a few weeks, it is a start, with my diy line arrays but my line arrays needs a sub, I am looking for a used one, a closed sub. One day I might be looking for something more serious down the road but those speakers sounded really good at the sellers house, but I know, I must measure them with REW for you to let you know since saying that something sounds good is so subjective. Anyway, the Hypex with 2x 250 watts will give me all the power I need, I have negociated with my love :)

About the power supply, I thought that an external power supply was superior in the way that it does not heat up the amp ?
 
I built this a few weeks ago (3e audio TPA3255 260-2-29A) Could be in my head but to me it sounds better than my Fosi V3 mono's. (and yes that is a PC case :facepalm:)

20260313_210245.jpg

20260313_191130.jpg
20260313_191119.jpg
 
When I was young I was told 50% of stereo budget is speakers, minimum. I think I am more like 80% in that regard. Speakers are also highly subjective. I find measurements interesting to learn about the design, but would not base a purchase decision on them. Unless looking for something very specific. Speakers are the one thing that makes or breaks the sound quality I want. No amp or dac can do that much of a difference (unless really bad devices), not even close.

I don't think my best pair could work out the difference between the 3e and Hypex. But the LA90 would run out of power. If I had to chose I'd get the Hypex as I think it's overall a level up (case, psu, hardware used).

External psu always has that cheap feeling for me. I don't like collecting these bricks and don't want these high powered dc cables. But as you see Topping did it very well and so do others. It might be another subjective thing that means nothing to other users. What matters is if it works good. And that is also covered in the reviews.

There is not much heat with class D, how the psu is done is a choice. Case size mustn't be bloated. The WiiMs f.e. have internal psu and are rather small boxes. I use a Vibelink a lot and demand some power from it, but handwarm is max. temp.
 
Last edited:
RaymondFromThePyrénéés said:
About the power supply, I thought that an external power supply was superior in the way that it does not heat up the amp ?
Click to expand...
I love external PSUs myself, but I think the reason depends 100% on the heat management design of each amp, otherwise that factor should not matter.

I think some disparage the aesthetics, I personally care not at all about that aspect, I'm happy with visible wiring chaos, stick it all into a milk crate.

But critical for me is that the power-thirsty components can be fed directly from my DC battery banks while off grid, especially when mostly-solar.
 
Last edited:
I just received this book from the usa, a bit expensive 35$, but it looks great.
 

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