Wiim Ultra vs Wiim Ultra + External Dac (Blind Test Results)

[Mr.A]

Better bass and slightly clearer are symptomatic of one level being slightly louder than another.
Keith

For the sake of hypothesizing, let’s assume that the volume levels of both DACs were not perfectly balanced.

In that case, there would be a 50% probability that the WiiM’s volume was higher.

In that scenario (50% probable) what would be the explanation for the listeners preferring the Topping DAC?

 

[SIY]

For the sake of hypothesizing, let’s assume that the volume levels of both DACs were not perfectly balanced.

In that case, there would be a 50% probability that the WiiM’s volume was higher.

In that scenario (50% probable) what would be the explanation for the listeners preferring the Topping DAC?

For your next try, level match properly AND double blind properly. That way, you won’t have to try rationalizing why the sloppy controls weren’t important.

Look, you gave this a good first try. Much more than others would, and my congratulations for that! Tighten things up for the next round and we’ll have something to discuss on the technical end.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

For the sake of hypothesizing, let’s assume that the volume levels of both DACs were not perfectly balanced.

In that case, there would be a 50% probability that the WiiM’s volume was higher.

In that scenario (50% probable) what would be the explanation for the listeners preferring the Topping DAC?

That seems like an incorrect application of statistics to me.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

For the sake of hypothesizing, let’s assume that the volume levels of both DACs were not perfectly balanced.

In that case, there would be a 50% probability that the WiiM’s volume was higher.

In that scenario (50% probable) what would be the explanation for the listeners preferring the Topping DAC?

Well, what if it was the Topping?

I don't understand why you're coming up with hypothetical scenarios when it's clear your test lacks convincing data.

That said, I think it's great that you conducted the test and even better that you're planning to redo it with proper controls. If you follow through and do it right, you'd be the first to document a suggested audible difference between two seemingly flawless DACs. I fully support the effort and look forward to seeing new data like this.

 

[antcollinet]

Something that has not been discussed so far as I've seen.

The (often slectable) DAC filters can make an audible difference - especially if a non sampling theorem compatible one is selected (slow rolloff and/or poor attenuation). They both need to be the sharp/fast (normally default) filter.

I don't know if the ultra has selectable filters (EDIT : yes it does - or at least the pro and pro+ do), but the D90 does. It should be (and probably was) left on the default F3.

 

[Nopiano]

For the sake of hypothesizing, let’s assume that the volume levels of both DACs were not perfectly balanced.

In that case, there would be a 50% probability that the WiiM’s volume was higher.

In that scenario (50% probable) what would be the explanation for the listeners preferring the Topping DAC?

There wouldn’t be one. The naysayers/objectivists will insist that the preferred Topping sounds exactly the same but was fractionally louder. Not loud enough to sound louder, but enough to sound better. Hence your results.

I say let’s all turn up our systems a mere fraction and save all this upgrading nonsense! It doesn’t sound quite so logical then, does it? ;-)

BTW, I would not have your tolerance of some of the challenges you’ve received here, but kudos to you for taking it on board and for contemplating a rematch!

 

[Mr.A]

DAC’s Blind ABX Testing

 

[Purité Audio]

That boy knows which side his bread is buttered.
Keit

 

[SIY]

Yes, that has been extensively critiqued. It was an easy cheat.

But again, spend your time setting up proper controls.

 

[staticV3]

DAC’s Blind ABX Testing

Extensively discussed in this thread:

GoldenSounds passes apparently ABX test for DACs (NOT Really)

Spoiler: Apparently he does it by hearing above 20kHz. MOD EDIT: GS only tests two different filters created with a software program. At no time he tests different DACs let alone passing such a difference. Edit: The sharp filter, the sinc-L, is very similar to the MScaler x2 filter, so...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Soniclife]

I say let’s all turn up our systems a mere fraction and save all this upgrading nonsense!

The wisdom of the Tap, works for me.

 

[Mr.A]

That boy knows which side his bread is buttered.

Using the ad hominem fallacy signals a lack of objective grounds to refute a given conclusion.

Let alone the fact that previously you conveniently ignored responding to what the explanation would be for the 50% probability that the WiiM’s volume level was higher, yet listeners still preferred the Topping DAC 72% of the time.

 

[Mr.A]

Yes, that has been extensively critiqued. It was an easy cheat.

But again, spend your time setting up proper controls.

Still waiting for an explanation as to what the reasoning would be for the 50% probability that the WiiM’s volume level was higher, yet listeners still preferred the Topping DAC 72% of the time.

 

[JustJones]

Still waiting for an explanation as to what the reasoning would be for the 50% probability that the WiiM’s volume level was higher, yet listeners still preferred the Topping DAC 72% of the time.

I haven't seen any evidence that the Topping was preferred in any proper controlled test but since nothing is 50/50 in reality the Topping volume was higher 75% of the time.

 

[Mr.A]

I haven't seen any evidence that the Topping was preferred in any proper controlled test but since nothing is 50/50 in reality the Topping volume was higher 75% of the time.

Ridiculous and nonsensical.

You demand perfect scientific evidence for propositions you don’t seem to like, yet with complete ease, you assume and take as valid baseless propositions, pulled out of thin air, that conveniently support your position, like the Topping had the higher volume 75% of the time.

 

[JustJones]

You did what a lot don't, you gave a good faith effort and had fun. You admit it wasn't scientific but anecdotal so why not accept the kudos for your effort and move on or incorporate some of the excellent ideas to improve next time.

 

[JustJones]

Ridiculous and nonsensical.

You demand perfect scientific evidence for propositions you don’t seem to like, yet with complete ease, you assume and take as valid baseless propositions, pulled out of thin air, that conveniently support your position, like the Topping had the higher volume 75% of the time.

Ok, in a real test the volumes would be set with a multimeter so if the volume has 50% chance it's higher or lower with one device then no conclusion can be drawn as to preference. Your conclusion of 72% isn't worth a bucket of warm spit. Adios.

 

[BDWoody]

DAC’s Blind ABX Testing

Ok, if this is the direction you are choosing, this is going to go downhill quickly.

If you're here to try to convince us that your test was more than a fun time, rather than learning how to make it something useful to anyone, you are going to find a lot of frustration.

You really need to stop defending the validity of your test or your conclusions from it, and start figuring out how to make your test double blind, how to find and set the filters, and get a multimeter if you don't have one.

Did you read about Clever Hans where I linked it earlier? The fact that your test didn't blind the switcher to what was being switched in and out by itself is enough to be a problem. Combined with a level matching process that wasn't good enough, and you have a faulty test.

Please reconsider the hill you are defending. You've got lots of very well credentialed people trying to help in good faith. Let them.

 

[SIY]

Still waiting for an explanation as to what the reasoning would be for the 50% probability that the WiiM’s volume level was higher, yet listeners still preferred the Topping DAC 72% of the time.

Misuse of statistics.

Now go work on your controls.

 

[antcollinet]

DAC’s Blind ABX Testing

Have you watched it? Because he wasn't comparing DACs, he was comparing filters.