Wiim Ultra + Topping D10S to help with DSP and bass management

[john61ct]

Wiim Ultra makes not only a great preamp + streamer / network player, but has got basic DSP functionality.

For overall system PEQ, using REW + other filter creation tools

even an automated room compensation EQ "Autofit".

Its bass management is for me too basic, as I need midbass couplers and want to test co-located stereo trueSubs (likely not too deep maybe ~50Hz)

So I was frustrated by the fact that it only sends to one output pair at a time.

Came across Topping 10S - it accepts USB input from Wiim, and both converts it to analog, comes in both RCA SE and TRS versions for Balanced at 4V

AND simultaneously acts as a DDC providing BOTH S/PDIF coaxial + optical digital outputs, so 3x pairs of the same stereo signal concurrently!!!

Wiim can do crossover filtering between the stereo output and its mono sub, and the "global HPF" on the stereo main outputs (now plural) can be toggled off, so no filter on main stereo output, but mono sub gets bandpassed including a HP rumble filter.

So that is useful for the deepest trueSubs in mono, which can be freely placed to tame room modes, and flexibility for all the other drivers, testing how much LF overlap you want, if any.

And the PEQ can give those deepest trueSubs a bit of "bass boost" which helps get the bandpass enclosure extra SPL down there, and even deeper extension into infra if desired for the occasional Michael Bay film.

 

[morillon]

These topics are frequently discussed and shared on the Wiim forum... and are in "becoming beta" if possible,time alignment with the subwoofer via the remote's microphone...

And yes, indeed, the limitation imposed by the 2+1 approach with a single, unavoidable output was pointed out from the start... (but the solution to explore remains: synchronizing a second Wiim to its normal outputs dedicated to two subwoofers, for example).
(The DSP part has made significant progress in its processing, particularly the Roomfit mode *... (but a huge manual precaution remains, as it hasn't been managed automatically for years... the level if somes positives corrections...)
(*aided by some very generous individuals who actively support developments, wiim not being originally from the field...)


(The small PocketADC could be useful for offering an analog input at a relatively low cost for wiim productcfor wiim for example the first-idee usage for minidsp company. This is a shame for Wiin products, whose ADC is still far from modern standards, and MiniDSP demonstrates what's possible with current technology.)

 

[john61ct]

the solution to explore remains: synchronizing a second Wiim to its normal outputs dedicated to two subwoofers, for example

The Wiim Grouping synch is too variable for that, even worse, unpredictable so.

...

Yes, I'm skeptical of anything automatic, so thorough testing required even if only via ears, ideally many listeners, blind and level-matched.

...

But I'm happy to use multiple external tools for other DSP needs:

speaker compensation EQ (as anechoic as possible)

the stereo crossovers, including timing / phase tuning, guiding speakers' physical placement

I hate products that try too hard to be all things to all users.

> a huge manual precaution remains, as it hasn't been managed automatically for years... the level if somes positives corrections..

sorry can you try rephrasing that?

 

[morillon]

no autogain associated with peq-gec mode
The approach is simply a "mainstream" "general public " approach, reasonable (no fir etc) (which is challenged by solutions like rew in its developments... the option of small micro calibred Dayton or umik usb, connectable to our phones, contributing to this slow democratization...)
The main interest in solutions like "roomfit" is, of course, to try and help limit bass problems below 300Hz...the truly "acoustic" issues.
We're talking about machines offering a lot of features... for a few hundred euros...
even the mini version has the possibility of 10-band PEQ.

Without considering the automatic correction functions, etc.,
the simple presence of a 32-bit 2x10 PEQ mode is of significant interest... even if it means using other, more advanced machines to perform the measurements, calculations, etc.

And perhaps one day they'll offer an "expert" mode with PEQ/"FIR"... maybe if the computing power of future machines seriously allows it...

You can support positively and competently Wiim in these developments is the useful thing...if you wish .... in wiim forum ..
;-)



But even as it stands, it allows the very common use of "PEQ" in headphones... very detailed online... 2 x 10 is already very good here.

 

[morillon]

I forgot... There's a real problem with this whole issue of the lack of auto-gain despite the signal processing capabilities...

the multiple level management options, etc. It's the presence of a powerful DRC in Wiim products that obscures the possibility of objectively observing the risks of saturation... and therefore its very frequent activation...

a clumsy "workaround"...


Wiim still hasn't reacted... it needs an on/off switch.

 

[john61ct]

So you are bringing up what you see as failings with the DSP features of Wiim Ultra?

Never mind about that here, as you say better places to discuss specifics of that unit

no autogain associated with peq-gec mode

I have no idea what that issue is, but suspect not relevant to my use case anyway.

 

[john61ct]

it needs an on/off switch.

I found this thread to continue discussion of this topic

Poor man’s ARC or Dirac for WiiM products: 80% of the results for €0

Thanks for the write-up! I'd just like to add that RoomFit improved a lot in recent months. Thank you so much. I wasn’t aware at all of the advanced settings for RoomFit. I just ran a 20–500 Hz measurement with No-Boost and Moving Mic, using the ARC external microphone, which WiiM identified...

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