WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

[Alexx]

Thank you all so much for your replies.

All I have to do is try it and see, If I don't like it, I'll just use it as a streamer.

I agree with you that for the price, the Wiim Ultra is a good compromise.
See you soon.

 

[PlateMail]

I'm pretty happy with mine. It replaced a Squeezebox touch and an Arcam irDAC-II, so the setup is simpler. Even if I had access to PEQ using squeezedsp in my previous setup, It's easier to use on the Wiim.

I use the analog out on the Wiim connected to a Naim XS2 integrated amp. I use the Wiim for volume control and have connected it to a regular input on the Naim. I also have a turntable that have connected directly to the Naim, so I want that to keep some of its preamp duties.

When I get a subwoofer I will configure the Naim to use one of the input in HT bypass mode, but for now it feels safer to have an option to limit the max volume.

Other than the more flexible PEQ its hard to tell a difference from my previous setup.

 

[harkpabst]

I know SPL might differ as it might still be above kef r5 meta at same wiim ultra volume.

I know I can use microphone and rew which is spl calibrated to find the spl of sub and speakers at listening position, however I'd kinda like to understand if my train of thought regarding the above is correct.

Short, low detail level answer: You are really overthinking this topic. I promise, your speakers are not at danger.

There's no real need to exactly limit the RMS power output of the AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S250NC to the "amplifier requirements" of the KEF R5 Meta. There is zero chance you would be frying the speakers with 236 W RMS power. Your ears would be bleeding long before. You should remember that the peak power of class D amps is pretty much identical to the RMS power, there's no additional headroom. So, by limiting the rms power you are also limiting the available headroom.

Since ultra will be using 2 v outputs for sub and line out, the sub will be limited however at same volume as speakers? Guess not since it will need a boost to be at same "volume" using ultras digital volume.

My plan is to use the 1khz and 50 hz sine sweep and measure the outputs with multimeter to find volume limit for speakers (the 1.4 v = 196 watts rms) output through line out at max level (100) with whatever volume limit I find and set. Now assuming I find this value, then I'd theoretically need to add some gain to subwoofer for it to be at same "volume" as speakers since it's "input sensitivity is 2v (I suppose at current settings of 0 db gain according to manual).

Don't worry about the sub neither. Your active subwoofer has its own built-in amplifier (of unknown gain) and its driver has its own sensitivity (most likely different from the R5 Meta). You will have to set a matching subwoofer level anyway, using the sun's volume control and the Ultra's sub out level). It will depend on your room and placement of the sub and it's pretty much impossible to predict the best settings beforehand.

If you absolutely want to add a safety margin to your AP300-S250NC output level you can do that using the WiiM Ultra's Volume Limit setting in the Audio Settings:

Each percentage point of reduction will decrease the output level by 0.6 dB. A setting of 95% will consequently reduce the output voltage by 3 dB, which already equals an output voltage of 1.4 V.

If you allow 3 dB of positive gain for WiiM's RoomFit room correction algorithm it's advisable to reduce the volume limit to 95% anyway. That's really all it needs.

A good subwoofer integration is much more important. If you can use REW to check the results of WiiM's settings this is of much higher importance.

 

[JD1]

Short, low detail level answer: You are really overthinking this topic. I promise, your speakers are not at danger.

There's no real need to exactly limit the RMS power output of the AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S250NC to the "amplifier requirements" of the KEF R5 Meta. There is zero chance you would be frying the speakers with 236 W RMS power. Your ears would be bleeding long before. You should remember that the peak power of class D amps is pretty much identical to the RMS power, there's no additional headroom. So, by limiting the rms power you are also limiting the available headroom.


Don't worry about the sub neither. Your active subwoofer has its own built-in amplifier (of unknown gain) and its driver has its own sensitivity (most likely different from the R5 Meta). You will have to set a matching subwoofer level anyway, using the sun's volume control and the Ultra's sub out level). It will depend on your room and placement of the sub and it's pretty much impossible to predict the best settings beforehand.

If you absolutely want to add a safety margin to your AP300-S250NC output level you can do that using the WiiM Ultra's Volume Limit setting in the Audio Settings:
View attachment 465753

Each percentage point of reduction will decrease the output level by 0.6 dB. A setting of 95% will consequently reduce the output voltage by 3 dB, which already equals an output voltage of 1.4 V.

If you allow 3 dB of positive gain for WiiM's RoomFit room correction algorithm it's advisable to reduce the volume limit to 95% anyway. That's really all it needs.

A good subwoofer integration is much more important. If you can use REW to check the results of WiiM's settings this is of much higher importance.

Thank you so much for the reply, so -3db goes from 2v to 1.4v?

I am planning to use REW and wiim's ultra PEQ.

Also planning on using the lpf of the subwoofer itself since it would allow me 3 more PEQ bands from the subwoofers amplifier.

I guess I was overthinking but also was trying to understand things a bit hence the questions, also from amirm review the max thd+N for the amplifier seems to be 190 watts for the audiphonics amplifier at 4 ohm both channels driven while for 1%THD is 235w.

 

[SKNG]

Thank you so much for the reply, so -3db goes from 2v to 1.4v?

I am planning to use REW and wiim's ultra PEQ.

Also planning on using the lpf of the subwoofer itself since it would allow me 3 more PEQ bands from the subwoofers amplifier.

I guess I was overthinking but also was trying to understand things a bit hence the questions, also from amirm review the max thd+N for the amplifier seems to be 190 watts for the audiphonics amplifier at 4 ohm both channels driven while for 1%THD is 235w.

I agree with @harkpabst don't need to overthink,if my small bookshelf spk still haven't been fried by the Hypex NC500 amp with volume as high as 80 on the Ultra on HDD music playback your system should have no prob playback at your normal n occasionally higher listening level.
I have just run Ultra room correction with an UMIK-1 mic, subjectively sounds better than without RC. Also tested switching from HDMI ARC to USB HDD music playback, seems working properly audio from TV ARC was muted after switched while video carry on playing.

 

[john61ct]

I am no expert, but here's some informal feedback on your learning curve.

Watts are nearly useless as a unit to predict SPL, yes be aware of them as one data point, but it completely depends on the speakers - some require high currents from the amp in order that high voltage be retained as impedance drops.

Also with Volts - so long as the source / pre-amp meets the minimum threshold of the power amps, you will just be adjusting the RELATIVE volume between your speaker categories to come up with a good balance. It is inevitable that one will have a higher max SPL than the other, and whether that is the full-frequency ones or the sub(s) does not matter, trying to predict which will "win" before you have them is not really a productive goal.

Finally, the subs do not (should not) be "as loud as" the full-frequency speakers. For an audiophile setup where accuracy is the goal, they are there to "fill in" the low end where your small main pair are lacking, ideally is a very subtle way.

Sound effects in a theatre setup, or a nightclub scenario are of course a different matter.

So from what I've understood reading some things here and there, if I want to output 200 wrms to speakers (max).

And amplifier (AP300-S250NC) has gain of 26 db and 1.66 v input sensitivity I should feed the amplifier max 1.4 v which will produce 27.93 v which will produce 196 watts to speakers at 4 ohm (kef r5 meta).

Since ultra will be using 2 v outputs for sub and line out, the sub will be limited however at same volume as speakers? Guess not since it will need a boost to be at same "volume" using ultras digital volume.

My plan is to use the 1khz and 50 hz sine sweep and measure the outputs with multimeter to find volume limit for speakers (the 1.4 v = 196 watts rms) output through line out at max level (100) with whatever volume limit I find and set. Now assuming I find this value, then I'd theoretically need to add some gain to subwoofer for it to be at same "volume" as speakers since it's "input sensitivity is 2v (I suppose at current settings of 0 db gain according to manual).

I know SPL might differ as it might still be above kef r5 meta at same wiim ultra volume.

I know I can use microphone and rew which is spl calibrated to find the spl of sub and speakers at listening position, however I'd kinda like to understand if my train of thought regarding the above is correct.

 

[jmbarndt]

Hi Everyone!

New member and need advice. I am trying to set up a system for new structure near my pool. I bought a pair of Polk Atrium 8SDIs for what appears to be a good price. I am trying to settle on power amp and a preamp/streamer that will allow hdmi arc and good Bluetooth/streaming. I found a power amp on eBay that looks like it has adequate power at 8 ohms (Vanguard Dynamics DA 2125. https://www.vanguarddynamics.com/product/da-2125-stereo-amplifier/
Not sure if that is a good amp or not and see no reviews here. Any thoughts on that would be helpful. Guy is selling a brand new one on eBay for $135 if that helps.

Was planning to pair that to Wiim Ultra or maybe a Fossil ZD3 or SMSLD100 since they have hdmi arc and rca outs to the amp.

Appreciate any thoughts or suggestions on this proposed set up!

 

[kyuu]

Hi Everyone!

New member and need advice. I am trying to set up a system for new structure near my pool. I bought a pair of Polk Atrium 8SDIs for what appears to be a good price. I am trying to settle on power amp and a preamp/streamer that will allow hdmi arc and good Bluetooth/streaming. I found a power amp on eBay that looks like it has adequate power at 8 ohms (Vanguard Dynamics DA 2125. https://www.vanguarddynamics.com/product/da-2125-stereo-amplifier/
Not sure if that is a good amp or not and see no reviews here. Any thoughts on that would be helpful. Guy is selling a brand new one on eBay for $135 if that helps.

Was planning to pair that to Wiim Ultra or maybe a Fossil ZD3 or SMSLD100 since they have hdmi arc and rca outs to the amp.

Appreciate any thoughts or suggestions on this proposed set up!

Why not just use one of the Wiim Amp models?

WiiM Amp | Compact Power. Effortless Streaming.

Discover the WiiM Amp, a state-of-the-art streaming amplifier designed to refine the way you experience music, movie, and more, WiiM Amp combines power, versatility, and simplicity like never before. Whether you are an audiophile or a home theater enthusiast, WiiM Amp delivers exceptional sound...

www.wiimhome.com

 

[jmbarndt]

Considered that but the Atriums 8 SDIs are rated for 125w @ 8 ohms and I was worried about clipping since these are outdoors and might be pushed higher. Originally thought about the Sonos amp but price seemed a little silly considering I have none of their other offerings nor plan to. I considered using two Fossi v3 monos but the heating issues combined with these being outdoors under a gazebo roof has me concerned so figured another amp would make more sense.

 

[jmbarndt]

Why not just use one of the Wiim Amp models?

WiiM Amp | Compact Power. Effortless Streaming.

Discover the WiiM Amp, a state-of-the-art streaming amplifier designed to refine the way you experience music, movie, and more, WiiM Amp combines power, versatility, and simplicity like never before. Whether you are an audiophile or a home theater enthusiast, WiiM Amp delivers exceptional sound...

www.wiimhome.com

Also is the amp I found any good? I’m still new to this level of involvement with audio systems and wasn’t sure if these specs are decent and would work well with Wiim ultra.

Input Impedance: >22K Ω
• S/N Ratio: (A-WTD) 100dB
• Frequency Response: 10Hz to 70KHz
• Input Sensitivity: 1.1V for 8 ohm Rated Output
• Damping Factor: >150
• Separation: 70dB at 1KHz
• Total Harmonic Distortion:
• <0.2% 20Hz to 20kHz
• <0.04% at 1kHz

 

[antcollinet]

but the heating issues combined with these being outdoors under a gazebo roof

There is no heating issue. They get to about 40c surface temp in a typical room environment -as does the back of my TV where the electronics are - as do any number of power electronics devices - as do pretty much all class A or AB amps.

But ouside under a sunlit gazebo - you are going to have to worry about heat loading for any amp. Not from air temperature, but from heat re-radiated by the gazebo roof - or just coming right through it if it is fabric.

IMO you should be thinking of keeping the electronics indoors, and just running speaker wire out to the speakers.

Also is the amp I found any good?

Power is the most important spec for an amp - and you've not listed it. Everything else seems OK - but you'll have to turn the the llevel of the source down due to the input sensitivity of 1.1V

 

[kyuu]

I think (and hope) that @jmbarndt meant that the speakers will be mounted on the gazebo roof, not the amplifier(s). Electronics should be OK outdoors as long as they are not in direct sunlight and aren't exposed to moisture.

Again, I don't know why you're making this complicated. Why use a Wiim Ultra paired with a separate amp when you can just use a single-box like any of the Wiim Amp products? You gain nothing except added expense and complication.

 

[jmbarndt]

There is no heating issue. They get to about 40c surface temp in a typical room environment -as does the back of my TV where the electronics are - as do any number of power electronics devices - as do pretty much all class A or AB amps.

But ouside under a sunlit gazebo - you are going to have to worry about heat loading for any amp. Not from air temperature, but from heat re-radiated by the gazebo roof - or just coming right through it if it is fabric.

IMO you should be thinking of keeping the electronics indoors, and just running speaker wire out to the speakers.




Power is the most important spec for an amp - and you've not listed it. Everything else seems OK - but you'll have to turn the the llevel of the source down due to the input sensitivity of 1.1V

Output: 125 Watts Per Channel at 8Ω / 200 Watts Per Channel at 4Ω
• Bridged Power Output: 400 Watts at 8Ω

Unfortunately running speaker wire out to the structure is not practical both because of the distance as well as the items that are in the way like the pool itself. I am slightly concerned with that exact heat radiation from the roof of the gazebo as it is covered with shingles.

 

[jmbarndt]

I think (and hope) that @jmbarndt meant that the speakers will be mounted on the gazebo roof, not the amplifier(s). Electronics should be OK outdoors as long as they are not in direct sunlight and aren't exposed to moisture.

Again, I don't know why you're making this complicated. Why use a Wiim Ultra paired with a separate amp when you can just use a single-box like any of the Wiim Amp products? You gain nothing except added expense and complication.

I think (and hope) that @jmbarndt meant that the speakers will be mounted on the gazebo roof, not the amplifier(s). Electronics should be OK outdoors as long as they are not in direct sunlight and aren't exposed to moisture.

Again, I don't know why you're making this complicated. Why use a Wiim Ultra paired with a separate amp when you can just use a single-box like any of the Wiim Amp products? You gain nothing except added expense and complication.

I think (and hope) that @jmbarndt meant that the speakers will be mounted on the gazebo roof, not the amplifier(s). Electronics should be OK outdoors as long as they are not in direct sunlight and aren't exposed to moisture.

Again, I don't know why you're making this complicated. Why use a Wiim Ultra paired with a separate amp when you can just use a single-box like any of the Wiim Amp products? You gain nothing except added expense and complication.

The main reason is the lack of power in the Wiim amp vs speakers being used. This being an open outdoor area I expect to be using more dB to fill it out properly especially with a good amount of people in and around a pool area talking and kids going wild and splashing.

 

[john61ct]

In that case best to never mind about "audiophile" and get more robust gear designed for PA outdoor use cases.

Portable gear that you set up and put away as needed has lots of advantages

Pushing past the max rated power will damage the speakers, better to add more speakers + amps if you want to play music louder.

The Fosi mono's would be fine.

 

[jmbarndt]

In that case best to never mind about "audiophile" and get more robust gear designed for PA outdoor use cases.

Portable gear that you set up and put away as needed has lots of advantages

Pushing past the max rated power will damage the speakers, better to add more speakers + amps if you want to play music louder.

The Fosi mono's would be fine.

Understood. So you think the fossi mono v3s would be a better bet than the Vanguard Amp I found? And then utilize the Wiim ultra for preamp/streamer and can plug tv into that with hdmi arc? I will likely be taking the gear inside from Oct through Mid May each year to prevent unneeded exposure to elements and cold.

 

[kyuu]

The main reason is the lack of power in the Wiim amp vs speakers being used. This being an open outdoor area I expect to be using more dB to fill it out properly especially with a good amount of people in and around a pool area talking and kids going wild and splashing.

The power isn't as important to loudness as people think. It's important for headroom (as in dynamic peaks), but just generally getting loud is more a function of the efficiency and directivity of the speakers and the gain. Even at elevated SPLs in a relatively small outdoor setting (backyard being small compared to a stadium) you're not going to be pushing hundreds of watts into the speakers constantly. Probably not even tens of watts.

The difference in peak SPL between a 100W amp like the Wiim Amp/Amp Pro and a 240W amp like the Fosi Mono is less than you'd think. Let's look:

Assuming no room reinforcement due to the outdoor setting, you're looking at 98.3db SPL 20 feet away with your speakers rated at 91dB/1W/1M at the Wiim Amp/Amp Pro's rated 100W@4R. Let's up it to 240W:

We've gained less than 4dB of peak SPL. Keep in mind that each additional 10dB of SPL is generally perceived as twice as loud (e.g. 90dB is perceptually twice as loud as 80dB).

Given the outdoor setting, I don't think having a ton of headroom is terribly important, and 98dB is already extremely loud in terms of average SPL. Let's see what we need for a more reasonable 80dB SPL (though even then you might want to turn it down if you intend on conversing with anybody and/or not pissing off the neighbors):

To get 80dB SPL at 20 feet away you're looking at a whopping 1.47W.

All that said, if you want the watts "just in case", the new Wiim Amp Ultra is rated for 200W@4R. If you're really set on the idea of having (a) separate amp(s), that's fine. I just think that simpler is going to be virtue for something you have to set up and put away, even if it's only a couple times a year.

 

[jmbarndt]

The power isn't as important to loudness as people think. It's important for headroom (as in dynamic peaks), but just generally getting loud is more a function of the efficiency and directivity of the speakers and the gain. Even at elevated SPLs in a relatively small outdoor setting (backyard being small compared to a stadium) you're not going to be pushing hundreds of watts into the speakers constantly. Probably not even tens of watts.

The difference in peak SPL between a 100W amp like the Wiim Amp/Amp Pro and a 240W amp like the Fosi Mono is less than you'd think. Let's look:

View attachment 469413

Assuming no room reinforcement due to the outdoor setting, you're looking at 98.3db SPL 20 feet away with your speakers rated at 91dB/1W/1M at the Wiim Amp/Amp Pro's rated 100W@4R. Let's up it to 240W:

View attachment 469414

We've gained less than 4dB of peak SPL. Keep in mind that each additional 10dB of SPL is generally perceived as twice as loud (e.g. 90dB is perceptually twice as loud as 80dB).

Given the outdoor setting, I don't think having a ton of headroom is terribly important, and 98dB is already extremely loud in terms of average SPL. Let's see what we need for a more reasonable 80dB SPL (though even then you might want to turn it down if you intend on conversing with anybody and/or not pissing off the neighbors):

View attachment 469416

To get 80dB SPL at 20 feet away you're looking at a whopping 1.47W.

All that said, if you want the watts "just in case", the new Wiim Amp Ultra is rated for 200W@4R. If you're really set on the idea of having (a) separate amp(s), that's fine. I just think that simpler is going to be virtue for something you have to set up and put away, even if it's only a couple times a year.

This is all very helpful information and I appreciate you highlighting that the difference probably won’t be perceived as much as one would think in real life. My only question as it relates to what you laid out here and utilizing something like the Wiim amp Ultra is, has it been confirmed in testing that the watt output at 8 ohms is actually around 100 instead of just claimed? My speakers are 8 ohms and I thought when Amir tested the Wiim amp pro at 8 ohms it only had ~60 watts of max power? I could be misinterpreting things as this is new to me but want to make sure I am getting closer to the 125 watt @ 8 ohm rating of the speakers.

Thanks!

 

[kyuu]

My only question as it relates to what you laid out here and utilizing something like the Wiim amp Ultra is, has it been confirmed in testing that the watt output at 8 ohms is actually around 100 instead of just claimed? My speakers are 8 ohms and I thought when Amir tested the Wiim amp pro at 8 ohms it only had ~60 watts of max power? I could be misinterpreting things as this is new to me but want to make sure I am getting closer to the 125 watt @ 8 ohm rating of the speakers.

Thanks!

Wim Amp Pro and Wiim Amp Ultra are different. 60W is the rating at 8R for the Wiim Amp and Amp Pro, so they are meeting specs. The Ultra is different being rated at 100W. Amir has not tested it (yet), but Erin (of Erin's Audio Corner) has:

WiiM Amp Ultra Streaming Amplifier Review

WiiM Amp Ultra Streaming Amplifier Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

I have circled where the power at 8R crosses the 100W mark. Wiim has never misrepresented their specs to my knowledge.

 

[john61ct]

Watts of output is really not as good an indicator as you think.

OTOH 4dB difference in actual SPL is pretty significant. Whether feeding more Watts will actually deliver that difference cannot be predicted from spec sheets, but must be physically measured using those specific speakers.