WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

[kyuu]

The latter is related to my first question, as Dolby Digital output appears even lower in level than LPCM.

What is this based on? In my experience with my PS5, at least, the signal is much lower when it is outputting linear PCM than when it is outputting a Dolby or DTS encoded stream. Of course I don't know if this is due to any inherent difference in level, how the AVR is handling the formats, or if this behavior is entirely dependent on the devices involved.

 

[harkpabst]

What is this based on? In my experience with my PS5, at least, the signal is much lower when it is outputting linear PCM than when it is outputting a Dolby or DTS encoded stream. Of course I don't know if this is due to any inherent difference in level, how the AVR is handling the formats, or if this behavior is entirely dependent on the devices involved.

Based on my own experience only. And I'm strictly talking about the HDMI ARC output of the TV, not about HDMI digital audio fed into an AVR.

The ARC audio signal is different from regular HDMI audio and uses different wires in the cable.

 

[Guddu]

Hi, question to those who own wiim ultra…..
I have recently bought one on Prime Day to simply my setup.
I have TV optical out to Geshelli J2S DAC and then amplifier. While very satisfying experience, volume control has become pain as TV won’t allow volume change in optical digital out and DAC doesn’t have volume control. Changing volume on amplifier is pain as it doesn’t have remote.
Now, with Wiim:
TV HDMI ARC to Wiim and Wiim RCA out to amplfier.
Volume control works on TV now and that issue is resolved but the SQ has suffered to a degree that I could catch almost every time I play something.
Does Wiim’s DAC output capabilities aren’t on higher side based on Amir measurements. He hasn’t used word “DAC” in subject as well.

I would say add your Geshelli DAC into the mix to test, you can try connecting Wiim Ultra USB or optical out to Geshelli DAC and still be able to control volume on TV or Wiim Ultra.
My own experience, Wiim Ultra is just fine for TV/movie but not for my music (for me). You experience could be same or different than mine.

 

[John.D]

I would say add your Geshelli DAC into the mix to test, you can try connecting Wiim Ultra USB or optical out to Geshelli DAC and still be able to control volume on TV or Wiim Ultra.
My own experience, Wiim Ultra is just fine for TV/movie but not for my music (for me). You experience could be same or different than mine.

I haven't done it yet, will have to grab an additional optical cable but will do it.

 

[John.D]

Are you 100% sure that what you experience is not merely a difference in volume? HDMI ARC outputs are notoriously low in digital signal level.

Also make sure to check your TV's HDMI/CEC/ARC settings. Unfortunately different brands love to name this in different ways.

• ARC must be turned on (obviously), but eARC must be turned off. The WiiM Ultra supports ARC but not eARC.
• Make sure that the output of your TV is set to PCM or LPCM, nothing else. Strictly avoid settings like "Compressed", "AC3", "Dolby", "Dolby Digital" or "Bitstream". Quality

The latter is related to my first question, as Dolby Digital output appears even lower in level than LPCM. Multiple WiiM devices can be connected wirelessly to form a 5.1 Dolby Digital system. In this case you would want your TV to output Dolby Digital, of course. But as long as you use the WiiM Ultra in a stereo setup, it's vital to feed it 2 channel LPCM (even if it can decode the compressed 5.1 stream).

PS:
You can use the Pre-Gain settings on the Audio Input page of the device settings to bring the TV level up to that of the other sources. You can set the touchscreen display to show the input level as a VU meter. You should carefully watch this for different TV stations and/or other sources connected to the TV. Increase Pre-Gain only, if the level shown is clearly below 0 dBFS all the time. If you apply too much pre-gain this would result in hard digital clipping (you would hear that instantly). In my personal (limited) experience the HDMI ARC output is usually limited to peak values around -10 dBFS (so one could safely apply up to ~9 dB pre-gain). But your setup might be different, so don't just take my word for it and watch for yourself.

Thanks but I am completely aware of this and posted my experience wisely

 

[John.D]

Amir has stated “no need to use an external DAC with the Ultra”.

Russ

thanks, I appreciate but don't think I would be alone with this and so curiously posted questions

 

[Guddu]

I haven't done it yet, will have to grab an additional optical cable but will do it.

I am sure you probably know it already but you might need to play with bitrate/resolution for optical out.

 

[Overseas]

Is Ultra also a headphone amplifier ?

 

[Saponetto]

As per @amirm review, yes, but not a serious one...

 

[Overseas]

Probably not for this thread, but it is from Wiim ecosystem, wireless etc
Does it require another Wiim app or does it work with same app as Ultra/ pro/ plus ?!

wiim-sub-pro

www.wiimhome.com

 

[Guddu]

Probably not for this thread, but it is from Wiim ecosystem, wireless etc
Does it require another Wiim app or does it work with same app as Ultra/ pro/ plus ?!

wiim-sub-pro

www.wiimhome.com

Pictures on the page suggest the same Wiim Home app to be used, which makes sense as well.

 

[JD1]

A question regarding output line out level (2vrms).

Gear
I'm using ethernet/tv hdmi arc > wiim ultra >
AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S250NC Power Amplifier Ncore NC252MP > kef r5 meta

Amplifier goes to 236 wrms and kef r5 meta are rated max 200 wrms (so what is max limit I should use the ultra sound volume to not surpass 200 wrms) (I suppose I could just use a multimeter to find out everything but I'll ask the entire question nonetheless.)

The amplifier has max input signal at 1.66 vrms (26db gain I've read here not 100% sure). So assuming the wiim ultra is outputting 2vrms what max volume limit or input pre gain -db do I need to apply To not clip the amp?


Sub out > 1961 1s = 2vrms

I have a 1961 1s arendal sub which is good for 2vrms at 0db gain (arendal sub has an input gain and it is clearly explained in the manual 2vrms input =0db). It also has master level where I could adjust volume output -20 to + 20 db. It has 4 lpf slopes which might be better than wiim ultra but I'm planning on using wiim ultra crossover unless I do need to adjust phase etc... more finely, which I will then start using sub dsp which has 3 peq up to 200 hz which would clear peq from wiim ultra aswell.

Assuming max volume level limit of wiim ultra will be let's say 70% to not clip amp, should I increase master volume level of sub so I can have a higher bass (I like bass) given the volume limit will be lower because of max volume limit of ultra thanks to amp?

I'd like to understand this a bit more, so sorry for the trouble.

Wiim ultra seems amazing so far, nice UI, features, etc... just wish presets would also save screen settings separately xD

Thank you for reading this WOT.

PS: I've read all 86 pages of this thread.

 

[John.D]

I would say add your Geshelli DAC into the mix to test, you can try connecting Wiim Ultra USB or optical out to Geshelli DAC and still be able to control volume on TV or Wiim Ultra.
My own experience, Wiim Ultra is just fine for TV/movie but not for my music (for me). You experience could be same or different than mine.

Finally did it last evening for good and now sending Ultra back. Sorry to say but those big numbers didn't work for me.

 

[Guddu]

Finally did it last evening for good and now sending Ultra back. Sorry to say but those big numbers didn't work for me.

Well... at least you found what you like. But you can always add a cheaper streamer for streaming function like you did with Ultra and keep your DAC as it is.

 

[Alexx]

@John.D
What problem did you encounter with the Wii U Ultra?

I recently got one, and I need to connect it to a power amp like the IOM Ultra or the AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S500NC NCore NC502MP.

I'm starting to suspect that the Wii U Ultra isn't a good preamp, or that it won't perform as well with these power amps.

However, it's the only stereo/preamp with a display that also has a subwoofer output. Otherwise, I would have gotten the DMP-AS6 Gen2, but that doesn't support a subwoofer.
Thanks.

 

[John.D]

@John.D
What problem did you encounter with the Wii U Ultra?

No problem or issues related to hardware or software, I had Topping PA7 connected and didn’t like the overall sound. Too bright and mediocre for me.

I recently got one, and I need to connect it to a power amp like the IOM Ultra or the AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S500NC NCore NC502MP.

I'm starting to suspect that the Wii U Ultra isn't a good preamp, or that it won't perform as well with these power amps.

I don’t know if it was its preamp or DAC section but wasn’t for my likings.

 

[kyuu]

There's nothing in the Wiim Ultra that can cause any audible issue with the sound, assuming the DSP isn't being used inappropriately.

 

[Guddu]

I'm starting to suspect that the Wii U Ultra isn't a good preamp, or that it won't perform as well with these power amps.

I would, in fact, say that it is a decent preamp if used as streamer/preamp.
It’s versatility makes it a quite useful device for its price, specially when it’s on discount or if you find a pre-owned unit.

However, it's the only stereo/preamp with a display that also has a subwoofer output. Otherwise, I would have gotten the DMP-AS6 Gen2, but that doesn't support a subwoofer.
Thanks.

There could be alternatives if HPF/LPF aren’t needed, like DAC with spare xlr or RCA out that could go to subwoofer.
But still, Wiim Ultra should do fine as streaming preamp.

BTW, I also didn’t like the DAC in Ultra and don’t use it for music specifically. But it’s my personal opinion and choice, might be different for others.

 

[SKNG]

Just received the Ultra on Monday, used it for TV ARC audio n USB HDD playback,so far it did everything right without any issues, connected directly to my old Hypex NC500 dual mono stereo amp with a RCA to XLR cable, TV is a old LG C7 OLED without eARC function, I voted great.
The Ultra replaced the WiiM Amp pro which I used for the past 8~ months, the main reason for replacement is due to "a bit lacking of power" in my living room 2.0 system when playback loud on USB HDD music other been got a spare amp after "upgrade" the main system amp.
Thanks Amir for the review.

 

[JD1]

A question regarding output line out level (2vrms).

Gear
I'm using ethernet/tv hdmi arc > wiim ultra >
AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S250NC Power Amplifier Ncore NC252MP > kef r5 meta

Amplifier goes to 236 wrms and kef r5 meta are rated max 200 wrms (so what is max limit I should use the ultra sound volume to not surpass 200 wrms) (I suppose I could just use a multimeter to find out everything but I'll ask the entire question nonetheless.)

The amplifier has max input signal at 1.66 vrms (26db gain I've read here not 100% sure). So assuming the wiim ultra is outputting 2vrms what max volume limit or input pre gain -db do I need to apply To not clip the amp?


Sub out > 1961 1s = 2vrms

I have a 1961 1s arendal sub which is good for 2vrms at 0db gain (arendal sub has an input gain and it is clearly explained in the manual 2vrms input =0db). It also has master level where I could adjust volume output -20 to + 20 db. It has 4 lpf slopes which might be better than wiim ultra but I'm planning on using wiim ultra crossover unless I do need to adjust phase etc... more finely, which I will then start using sub dsp which has 3 peq up to 200 hz which would clear peq from wiim ultra aswell.

Assuming max volume level limit of wiim ultra will be let's say 70% to not clip amp, should I increase master volume level of sub so I can have a higher bass (I like bass) given the volume limit will be lower because of max volume limit of ultra thanks to amp?

I'd like to understand this a bit more, so sorry for the trouble.

Wiim ultra seems amazing so far, nice UI, features, etc... just wish presets would also save screen settings separately xD

Thank you for reading this WOT.

PS: I've read all 86 pages of this thread.

So from what I've understood reading some things here and there, if I want to output 200 wrms to speakers (max).

And amplifier (AP300-S250NC) has gain of 26 db and 1.66 v input sensitivity I should feed the amplifier max 1.4 v which will produce 27.93 v which will produce 196 watts to speakers at 4 ohm (kef r5 meta).

Since ultra will be using 2 v outputs for sub and line out, the sub will be limited however at same volume as speakers? Guess not since it will need a boost to be at same "volume" using ultras digital volume.

My plan is to use the 1khz and 50 hz sine sweep and measure the outputs with multimeter to find volume limit for speakers (the 1.4 v = 196 watts rms) output through line out at max level (100) with whatever volume limit I find and set. Now assuming I find this value, then I'd theoretically need to add some gain to subwoofer for it to be at same "volume" as speakers since it's "input sensitivity is 2v (I suppose at current settings of 0 db gain according to manual).

I know SPL might differ as it might still be above kef r5 meta at same wiim ultra volume.

I know I can use microphone and rew which is spl calibrated to find the spl of sub and speakers at listening position, however I'd kinda like to understand if my train of thought regarding the above is correct.