WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

[Sokel]

I don’t disagree with you regarding the performance merit of Dirac, but from what I’ve heard about the complication of implementing Dirac correctly, it’s still a good deal more work and complication than the functionality of WiiM’s RC. Some people really just want to put the mic down, press one button (a few times), and be done with it.

You’re right about the compromises—the key thing here is, at least to me, WiiM is the choice for absolute simplicity and ease of use. Want more performance and willing to put in some extra work? Go get a Node with Dirac. Not saying the extra effort isn’t worth it as a whole, just saying that WiiMs are meant to be the absolute easy end of the user-friendliness spectrum.

If they want to cover, “all the bases,” perhaps in the future add support for Dirac, but never retire the, “free,” RC, because not everyone wants the cost or complication of a Dirac license or the implementation, and WiiM owners are likely the number one place where even Dirac seems intimidating.

Let’s not even talk about a MiniDSP and REW! That is probably the opposite end of the user-friendliness bar, with Dirac somewhere in the middle, along with Anthem Room Correction (probably easier than REW, but harder than Dirac).

No objection at all by me, ease is one of hell selling points, it should be pointed out more!
Some are not living alone in their houses or don;t have a dedicated for personal use and ease for the rest of the family is crucial.

Yep,that more than ok in my book.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Once again, there's no free meals at audio...

I think Audio Science Review's raison d'etre is to bust open myths like that. **

I remember being told time and time again that you couldn't get a transparent DAC for less than $200. Then less than $100.

Then it would be prohibitively expensive to put PEQ on a DAC.

All of the above have been put to bed.

We are now in a world where, frankly, almost anything (within reason) based on software is doable cheaply. I just needs the right company at the right time to spot the right hole in the market.

** Okay, very little is absolutely 100% free. But it can be very cheap indeed, money-wise. And, if in your scenario you're not referring to money, but the hit noise and distortion take when room correction is applied, please remember that Amir has measured several WiiM products with PEQ and found that they remain transparent when PEQ is applied. Room correction should not cause any noise or distortion, it's purely a series of measurements, with PEQ profiles calculated to iron out the issues those measurements uncover. After that, it doesn't matter if those PEQ settings were created by Dirac, or WiiM's room correction, or manually input PEQ, or random, or whatever. If the the PEQ on a device is transparent, it remains so, no matter how it was calculated.

If the PEQ doesn't introduce enough noise or distortion to remove transparency, the reason the PEW profile was created makes absolutely no difference.

 

[Sokel]

I think it is overlooked how performant Dirac Live can be under Bluesound. A Bluesound Node (Icon) runs its post-processing at 192kHz. A Storm currently only works with 48kHz under Dirac Live. The DAC section of the newer Nodes is also superior to the DAC section of the Storms.

The thing is not how they play, they thing that puts them miles in front of anything else is how the measure (both software and hardware) .
Trinnof mic alone for example with its genius triangulating way of knowing where gear is (like we do for thousands of years) is ingenious:

That's what separates amateurs and pros, both gear and knowledge.

 

[Sokel]

If the PEQ doesn't introduce enough noise or distortion to remove transparency, the reason the PEW profile was created makes absolutely no difference.

That's the point, it does.
And it does big time, just measure it with 2-3 filters applied low and see what happens.
(same happened with miniDSP until they applied a partial fix, they had problems for a decade and a thread here made them do it, same happens to bluesound, etc) .
Have a look at the right threads and it's all there.

Here's a good start:

DSP Measurements and Rising Noise Floor

In several threads related to DSP platforms I've seen requests for measurements with filters engaged. I thought it unlikely that implementing filters in a DSP would have measurable effect on noise / distortion other than the obvious change in the fundamental, however @Sokel recently mentioned...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Note that the measurements at the start are digital all the way, these should all result at -140dB THD+N if all things were peachy.
But...

 

[pogo]

same happens to bluesound

I think you're confusing the tone control issue with Dirac Live here.

 

[Overseas]

No, it's much easier:

When you say its easier, than an instructuonal follows, you know .. NOK.

YPAO is easy. Wiim is easy. Just push a button. Gimme Dirac at the push of a button, then we discuss pricing.

 

[pogo]

Wiim is easy. Just push a button.

--> PUSH ME

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

That's the point, it does.
And it does big time, just measure it with 2-3 filters applied low and see what happens.
(same happened with miniDSP until they applied a partial fix, they had problems for a decade and a thread here made them do it, same happens to bluesound, etc) .
Have a look at the right threads and it's all there.

Here's a good start:

DSP Measurements and Rising Noise Floor

In several threads related to DSP platforms I've seen requests for measurements with filters engaged. I thought it unlikely that implementing filters in a DSP would have measurable effect on noise / distortion other than the obvious change in the fundamental, however @Sokel recently mentioned...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Note that the measurements at the start are digital all the way, these should all result at -140dB THD+N if all things were peachy.
But...

But here's what we have now (albeit measured and presented in a slightly different way).

WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Pro Plus streamer, DAC and preamplifier with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $219. While the case is plastic, it still "looks the part" as the Brits would say relative to other more famous brands of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[morillon]

But here's what we have now (albeit measured and presented in a slightly different way).

WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Pro Plus streamer, DAC and preamplifier with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $219. While the case is plastic, it still "looks the part" as the Brits would say relative to other more famous brands of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

just peq on or off...no minimum or type corrections etc to observe what happens in condition...

 

[Overseas]

--> PUSH ME

Just push it, no selection, you still get RC.

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

No, it's much easier:

This is a perfect example of what I’m talking about.

Does Dirac provide better results than WiiM RC? Well, certainly. In this case, it costs more for reasons.

Does WiiM need seven different sweeps/measurements? No. It needs only one.

Some people don’t want to do 7 measurements. WiiM is for those people. For everyone else, there are plenty of options to implement Dirac.

I rest my case.

Let’s also not forget, you’re getting WiiM RC on (relatively) inexpensive equipment. A Dirac license in and of itself is already quite a chunky cost compared to even the basic cost of a WiiM Ultra, let alone a WiiM Pro or Pro Plus.

 

[pogo]

Some people don’t want to do 7 measurements.

You can also make just one measurement under Dirac Live. I generally do a maximum of three.

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

You can also make just one measurement under Dirac Live. I generally do a maximum of three.

You’re still not getting around the cost, especially if you’re talking about a bundle of license plus calibrated microphone.

As I said, best to keep the course given the customer base and cost management. If they want Dirac, make it at most an optional add-on, but do not fundamentally cease development of the free, built-in RC. It should continue to be refined over time.

One thing about LinkPlay that people love is the continued (software) upgrades for their devices. Nobody likes a company that dumps their software support over time.

 

[Overseas]

Wiim introduced the multiple sweep option to RC.

 

[pogo]

you’re talking about a bundle of license

You only have and need one license for Dirac Live (limited or full range).

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

You only have and need one license for Dirac Live (limited or full range).

And said license is not free, yeah? WiiM RC is free/included on all supported devices. $0.00. €0.00. £0.00.

You can also make just one measurement under Dirac Live. I generally do a maximum of three.

This is good. I appreciate being advised this, because I was not aware of it.

Wiim introduced the multiple sweep option to RC.

Which is optional for people who want more accurate results (especially for L/R separate correction), but that’s the point—don’t want to faff with it, don’t need to. Want better accuracy? Awesome, it’s there.

And it’s still free.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

just peq on or off...no minimum or type corrections etc to observe what happens in condition...

Amir did do a similar test on another WiiM, though I can't remember which one, where he pushed it a bit further - can't remember exactly what. The problem is, you can't measure distortion easily, as that's usually done by seeing how close output is to input, and PEQ changes the output anyway.

No audible measurement in noise, though.

 

[Sokel]

I think you're confusing the tone control issue with Dirac Live here.

Not at all.
I just say what half-baked EQ does to devices without dedicated DSP chip (so horsepower) .Dirac is on cloud (and I hope it takes into account its device's limits) .

 

[Sokel]

Amir did do a similar test on another WiiM, though I can't remember which one, where he pushed it a bit further - can't remember exactly what. The problem is, you can't measure distortion easily, as that's usually done by seeing how close output is to input, and PEQ changes the output anyway.

No audible measurement in noise, though.

Amir never tests low, ie. 30-40Hz for example.
That's where problems are, below 100Hz.

Example from the thread I posted above:

Look at the noise floor.And this is digital,right? It supposed to be perfect.

And the funny thing is that people constantly ask for higher sample rates where things can go really bad as computing demands skyrocket.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Amir never tests low, ie. 30-40Hz for example.
That's where problems are, below 100Hz.

Example from the thread I posted above:

View attachment 445058

Look at the noise floor.And this is digital,right? It supposed to be perfect.

And the funny thing is that people constantly ask for higher sample rates where things can go really bad as computing demands skyrocket.

That's either inaudible, or close (in other words inaudible in real-world listening).