WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

[EddNog]

Is it known what processing/sampling rate is used in the internal application of PEQ in the WiiM Ultra?

I asked WiiM, but there response shocked me!


Either they're being thick, or I am not understanding correctly?
A miniDSP states it operates at 32/96, the Eversolo I have seen stated 24/48 - I wanted a figure from WiiM to make a comparison.

The main processor is doing the work, likely at whatever native resolution/bit-depth/sample rate the source file is.

-Ed

 

[MingChops]

The main processor is doing the work, likely at whatever native resolution/bit-depth/sample rate the source file is.

-Ed

That sounds pretty underwhelming if true. Processing at say 16/44.1 without up sampling it will limit the overall precision of the PEQ, that can as I understand things lead to quantisation issues (truncation and rounding errors). It also restricts digital headroom for EQ boosts, increasing the risk of clipping, and forces the use of steeper reconstruction filters.

 

[EddNog]

That sounds pretty underwhelming if true. Processing at say 16/44.1 without up sampling it will limit the overall precision of the PEQ, that can as I understand things lead to quantisation issues (truncation and rounding errors). It also restricts digital headroom for EQ boosts, increasing the risk of clipping, and forces the use of steeper reconstruction filters.

I could also be 100% wrong.

-Ed

 

[Matt_Holland]

I could also be 100% wrong.

-Ed

I pray you are

 

[EddNog]

My IOM Ultra (Hypex NC252MP stereo power amplifier) came in this evening and as expected, the performance is high enough to be transparently comparable to my last amplifiers (a pair of Topping B100s) while providing significantly more power and being a lovely aesthetic match for my WiiM Ultra streamer. The paint is a shade lighter than it needs to be in order to achieve a perfect match, but I’ll take it!

There is a white LED situated between the IEC power socket and the 12V trigger that provides power status.

-Ed

 

[Doodski]

My IOM Ultra (Hypex NC252MP stereo power amplifier) came in this evening and as expected, the performance is high enough to be transparently comparable to my last amplifiers (a pair of Topping B100s) while providing significantly more power and being a lovely aesthetic match for my WiiM Ultra streamer. The paint is a shade lighter than it needs to be in order to achieve a perfect match, but I’ll take it!

View attachment 419814

View attachment 419815

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There is a white LED situated between the IEC power socket and the 12V trigger that provides power status.

-Ed

Things have come a longgg way. All the potential in 2 small components.

 

[EddNog]

Things have come a longgg way. All the potential in 2 small components.

Indeed! I ended up (for now) hooking the IOM Ultra directly to the single-ended line outs of my WiiM Ultra because my external DAC doesn’t seem to work well with a power amplifier with this much gain (~26dB) and there are unavoidable pop/click sounds any time the sample rate changes with that DAC hooked up via coax. I can’t yet try using USB instead because the firmware with the ability to use USB to connect an external DAC while simultaneously using bass management (Subwoofer output On) has not yet been released, so I don’t know if using USB instead will fix the problem. As a result, I am stuck using the RCA inputs on the IOM Ultra for now (the external DAC allows me to connect with balanced input instead).

-Ed

 

[Doodski]

Indeed! I ended up (for now) hooking the IOM Ultra directly to the single-ended line outs of my WiiM Ultra because my external DAC doesn’t seem to work well with a power amplifier with this much gain (~26dB) and there are unavoidable pop/click sounds any time the sample rate changes with that DAC hooked up via coax. I can’t yet try using USB instead because the firmware with the ability to use USB to connect an external DAC while simultaneously using bass management (Subwoofer output On) has not yet been released, so I don’t know if using USB instead will fix the problem. As a result, I am stuck using the RCA inputs on the IOM Ultra for now (the external DAC allows me to connect with balanced input instead).

-Ed

Hmmz. IC. Well it's good that you found a work-around. They sure do look god together. Is that a new standardized case package dimension? They match so well.

 

[MingChops]

Looks good, keep and eye for a faulty WiiM Ultra and use it to replace the top and bottom of the IOM, and it'll look even more slick

(I'm currently weighing up between the 'Ultra' combo or going to an M10 v3... )

 

[MingChops]

That sounds pretty underwhelming if true. Processing at say 16/44.1 without up sampling it will limit the overall precision of the PEQ, that can as I understand things lead to quantisation issues (truncation and rounding errors). It also restricts digital headroom for EQ boosts, increasing the risk of clipping, and forces the use of steeper reconstruction filters.

Got another reply:

We are a purely software-based PEQ solution and do not have hardware DSP capabilities.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

It very much appears they're being deliberately obtuse/vague to avoid answering the actual question being asked here, which is: I am simply asking if their DSP up-samples when applying PEQ.

Current responses have been "we don't use DSP", to "we don't use hardware DSP".

Quite clearly avoiding answering and so in other words, I think @EddNog you are very likely correct in that they are just using what ever the base sample rate is.

I mean for £350 you can't expect the world, but I'm out. I do not want to be applying PEQ and using digital volume control to a 16/44.1 signal. - 'Ultra' combo is off the list and so basically looking like an M10 v3 once DLBC is released.
(Until I change my mind again next week that is )

 

[EddNog]

Got another reply:


It very much appears they're being deliberately obtuse/vague to avoid answering the actual question being asked here, which is: I am simply asking if their DSP up-samples when applying PEQ.

Current responses have been "we don't use DSP", to "we don't use hardware DSP".

Quite clearly avoiding answering and so in other words, I think @EddNog you are very likely correct in that they are just using what ever the base sample rate is.

I mean for £350 you can't expect the world, but I'm out. I do not want to be applying PEQ and using digital volume control to a 16/44.1 signal. - 'Ultra' combo is off the list and so basically looking like an M10 v3 once DLBC is released.
(Until I change my mind again next week that is )

I just ordered a DSPeaker Anti-Mode X2D, so soon I need not worry about any of these issues with WiiM’s room correction methodology.

-Ed

 

[Soniclife]

It very much appears they're being deliberately obtuse/vague to avoid answering the actual question

It sounds a lot more like the agent didn't understand your question, asked engineering the wrong question, then didn't understand the response from engineering whilst relaying it back to you. Do you know where the support agents are located?

I'd try asking on their forum.

 

[MingChops]

I just ordered a DSPeaker Anti-Mode X2D, so soon I need not worry about any of these issues with WiiM’s room correction methodology.

-Ed

Certainly one way, and I considered keeping my Squeezebox Touch and adding an X2 or a miniDSP Flex after it, but ultimately decided unnecessary and convoluted. I don't see why use a streamer like a WiiM Ultra and an X2D, when say Bluesound Node ICON would be simpler, cheaper, and I would argue better given Dirac.
Or to do your own PEQ etc still, then an SHD/Studio (which have Dirac anyway) would also combine streaming and DSP.

It sounds a lot more like the agent didn't understand your question, asked engineering the wrong question, them didn't understand the response from engineering whilst relaying it back to you. Do you know where the support agents are located?

I'd try asking on their forum.

After the first email yes benefit of the doubt hence the follow ups, you can see it was concisely asked!

Dear Support,
I am exploring the WiiM Ultra and its competitors and have a few questions:

1. Could you please confirm the internal processing and sample rate at which the DSP operates?
2. I am considering the WiiM Ultra for my desktop system with a single subwoofer, which seems like an excellent fit. However, my lounge system has dual subwoofers. Are there any plans to release a version with dual independent subwoofer outputs in the future?

Having both my systems on the same platform would be ideal, so it would be helpful to know if WiiM plans to support dual subwoofer systems moving forward.
Thank you for your assistance.
Best regards,

Thank you for your feedback.

We do not have DSP processing.

Regarding your question, "Are there any plans to release a version with dual independent subwoofer outputs in the future?" — there are no plans at the moment.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Best regards,

Hi,

Thank you for the reply, sorry maybe I was not clear. The PEQ function (which is a form of DSP) on the WiiM Ultra - it is this I am interested to know at what processing and sample rate it operates at?

For example a miniDSP Flex works at 32bit / 96Khz for applying it's PEQ. However, I would prefer to use a WiiM Ultra because it has built in streaming, a nice display and case etc. But I am interested to know how it competes technically with PEQ processing.

Many thanks,

We are a purely software-based PEQ solution and do not have hardware DSP capabilities.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Best regards,

Hi,

Thank you again for the reply.

So that I understand correctly (and hopefully for the last time!) - that means you apply the PEQ at what ever the incoming sample rate is?

Thanks.

We shall see if and what the final response is - there's nothing ambiguous in the questions and I was deliberate to try to phrase everything quite clearly given potential language translation.

 

[EddNog]

Certainly one way, and I considered keeping my Squeezebox Touch and adding an X2 or a miniDSP Flex after it, but ultimately decided unnecessary and convoluted. I don't see why use a streamer like a WiiM Ultra and an X2D, when say Bluesound Node ICON would be simpler, cheaper, and I would argue better given Dirac.
Or to do your own PEQ etc still, then an SHD/Studio (which have Dirac anyway) would also combine streaming and DSP.


After the first email yes benefit of the doubt hence the follow ups, you can see it was concisely asked!







We shall see if and what the final response is - there's nothing ambiguous in the questions and I was deliberate to try to phrase everything quite clearly given potential language translation.

The reason is literally for simplicity—the Anti-Mode X2D is a press one button and presto-magico everything is done solution. I don’t want to faff with a million settings and a laptop and this and that and here and there. I want to press one button and let it run its calibration and be done.

As for a BlueOS device of any kind—I do not like the software interface. Personal preference—I find WiiM Home app much more intuitive and easy to use and navigate.

-Ed

 

[Soniclife]

After the first email yes benefit of the doubt hence the follow ups, you can see it was concisely asked!

I sometimes wonder if clarity and consise questions lower the chances of them recognising they don't know the answer. As a customer I've despaired at such clueless responses, and as the technical expert not allowed to communicate directly with the customer it's no better when you are trying to work out what was really asked.

 

[MingChops]

The reason is literally for simplicity—the Anti-Mode X2D is a press one button and presto-magico everything is done solution. I don’t want to faff with a million settings and a laptop and this and that and here and there. I want to press one button and let it run its calibration and be done.

As for a BlueOS device of any kind—I do not like the software interface. Personal preference—I find WiiM Home app much more intuitive and easy to use and navigate.

-Ed

Fair enough, yeah I am also tired of manual EQ etc - I am looking to offload that to a capable and automated system also!
It's interesting to see what systems people have and why they chose them, in case I am overlooking something.

I quite like BluOS myself so would be happy to go back to it. I went LMS -> BluOS -> LMS...!
But BluOS seems to divide opinions somewhat, I'm not sure why mind as I always felt for local FLAC playback it was nothing but excellent. The Amazon integration was (still is?) poor granted (but most are with Amazon), and Apple of course relies on Airplay which isn't great. But Tidal Connect is fully driven from the Tidal app, and I think Qobuz is getting/got a connect also. Deezer (which I use now), is ok in BluOS, better than the Deezer Local plugin to LMS - but my intention is to go to Tidal and use Connect if I do end up plumping for the m10.

I sometimes wonder if clarity and consise questions lower the chances of them recognising they don't know the answer. As a customer I've despaired at such clueless responses, and as the technical expert not allowed to communicate directly with the customer it's no better when you are trying to work out what was really asked.

In the world of IT or a similar solution design environment that has complexity associated with it, yes I get that issue can exist (I used to work in an IT environment supporting partners and not interfacing with the end customers directly, so know it well in fact!!). But in this instance, we're just talking a simple hifi question about sample rate processing.... def not the same gravy!

The latest question must surely warrant a direct reply to yield the answer I'm looking for! I fail to see that it can be yet avoided....but we'll see!

 

[JimmyMac]

My IOM Ultra (Hypex NC252MP stereo power amplifier) came in this evening and as expected, the performance is high enough to be transparently comparable to my last amplifiers (a pair of Topping B100s) while providing significantly more power and being a lovely aesthetic match for my WiiM Ultra streamer. The paint is a shade lighter than it needs to be in order to achieve a perfect match, but I’ll take it!

View attachment 419814

View attachment 419815

View attachment 419816

There is a white LED situated between the IEC power socket and the 12V trigger that provides power status.

-Ed

Hi Ed, got a few questions about the IOM Ultra:
1. How much extra did it cost for the xlr inputs? They aren't mentioned on their website. Did you just ask for them to be added when you placed the order?
2. How long did it take for you to receive the amp? I'm also in the U.S.
3. Is it ok to stack the two components? Do they recommend that it is ok for sound and/or ventilation?
4. I also have the LS50 Metas, so I'm curious about how they sound with the IOM Ultra.

Thanks, Jimmy

 

[Matt_Holland]

I'd try asking on their forum.

I went ahead and did that

 

[Matt_Holland]

Certainly one way, and I considered keeping my Squeezebox Touch and adding an X2 or a miniDSP Flex after it, but ultimately decided unnecessary and convoluted. I don't see why use a streamer like a WiiM Ultra and an X2D, when say Bluesound Node ICON would be simpler, cheaper, and I would argue better given Dirac.
Or to do your own PEQ etc still, then an SHD/Studio (which have Dirac anyway) would also combine streaming and DSP.


After the first email yes benefit of the doubt hence the follow ups, you can see it was concisely asked!







We shall see if and what the final response is - there's nothing ambiguous in the questions and I was deliberate to try to phrase everything quite clearly given potential language translation.

I asked the question on the Wiim forum just now and got answers within minutes.
It’s good news - the DSP runs at 32bit and incoming sample rate. Volume control uses 8-bit therefore retaining resolution of up to 24bit audio streams.

 

[Good Vibes]

I have a query regarding Room Correction. My phone has been in too many dusty pockets to trust its microphone for calibration purposes. I have been considering buying an umik-1 Microphone. I am wondering if anyone has done the same and can comment on the results? Is it worth it?