WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

[Multicore]

A number of years ago

Was that in the last 10 years?

 

[TSB]

Perhaps you have insider information that I don't. But it seems to me that, if they developed expertise in developing for OEMs - and the OEMs contracted with them for a specific product, then the OEMs have no rights over anything LinkPlay do in future.

That is correct, there is no legal problem here. But it is a breach of the social contract between system integrator (SI) and brand. An SI is useful because it allows brands to split development costs for common components without working together with their competitors (= sharing too much information). Once an SI turns into a brand (Linkplay -> WiiM) you suddenly have one company that knows inside information about a lot of competitors (used to be their customers) undercutting them.

Of course, as you say, OEMs may now reconsider whether to work with Linksys in future, now that they have to compete with WiiM. But surely that's an issue for the OEM - not for us end users? I'll purchase what is best for me. I have no loyalty to one manufacturer or another.

That is fair enough, and I don't mean to judge people who buy their products. (It's not like every other product is created by angels sitting in heaven..they are not!) It's just my decision not to.

As for the Airplay issue - I'm not sure your characterisation of this is fully supported by the facts - at least as I understand them. I suspect this was an issue around a specific issue of licensing that LinkPlay misunderstood.Perhaps around the MFI (I believe it stands for "made for iPod" - showing you how long it's been around) chip that has long been a requirement for certain levels of Apple licensing.

Of course, you are entirely within your rights to buy or not buy from any vendor - especially as you clearly feel strongly about it.

But I can't see that some of your statements are backed by the facts I am aware of. If you have other information that is not in the public domain, then fair enough. I just don't know what it is...

What you describe is launching an airplay product without the obligatory authentication chip to cut costs and hoping that Apple would not notice they are using the old software authentication. Linkplay as an experienced SI surely knew what they were doing here, and their customers got an inportant feature removed because of this. This is typical of the "agressive cost cutting" style of these kinds of companies.

 

[uofmtiger]

The AirPlay issue only affects the Ultra from what I understand and they discovered this on its initial release and said that all vendors would allow a return. Yes, they made a mistake with their original launch, but they didn’t take AirPlay away from older products that I own. I have a Wiim Mini and Pro and both still support AirPlay.

As for licensing tech and then using it themselves… Apple did the same thing with AirPlay and the HomePod, so I don’t see this as an unusual situation.

The upside to Wiim is that they constantly update their firmware to allow their devices to have more features over time. I have a Yamaha WXC-50 and it has rarely ever been updated. They also offer great support.. I have had questions and I always got a quick response. Honestly, people can make their own choices, but I find them to be consumer friendly, which is the thing I care about.

 

[jboyer]

I've replaced the Pi/MOTU with this Ultra - and the Hypex Monoblocks with a pair of Fosi V3 Monos. There has been no reduction in sound quality that I can hear - but the improvement in usability is night and day!

I have the same setup. TV and TT feed the Ultra as well as an USB memory stick and a shared drive from my music server.

Using the Room Equalizer and adjusting for the input levels make this Ultra/Fosi combination user friendly.
It is very difficult to compare an old set up (NAD 3045 driven from a Surface tablet and from the TT preamp) sound wise. But useability wise, especially for my spouse, this Ultra got peace back in the house.

A missing piece in our audio experience is how we each hear. My wife's hearing is still nearly perfect, while mine is aided by recently adjusted hearing aids. When we test various sound frequencies, it's clear that we perceive them differently. So, I'd add this element to choosing the Ultra: it appears that she enjoys its ease of use and the sound quality, though there's no hard science behind it.

 

[Gyosa1]

The AirPlay issue only affects the Ultra from what I understand and they discovered this on its initial release and said that all vendors would allow a return. Yes, they made a mistake with their original launch, but they didn’t take AirPlay away from older products that I own. I have a Wiim Mini and Pro and both still support AirPlay.

As for licensing tech and then using it themselves… Apple did the same thing with AirPlay and the HomePod, so I don’t see this as an unusual situation.

The upside to Wiim is that they constantly update their firmware to allow their devices to have more features over time. I have a Yamaha WXC-50 and it has rarely ever been updated. They also offer great support.. I have had questions and I always got a quick response. Honestly, people can make their own choices, but I find them to be consumer friendly, which is the thing I care about.

I have a couple Yamaha wxc-50’s as well ….
They haven’t had a firmware update in years - literally.

They won’t do Tidal hi-rez FLAC (just 16/44.1) and there are no plans for it to ever do so.

Bk

 

[harkpabst]

What you describe is launching an airplay product without the obligatory authentication chip to cut costs and hoping that Apple would not notice they are using the old software authentication.

Since when exactly is the authentication chip obligatory?

You do mention yourself that Apple did certify purely software based solutions in the past. Obviously, that was the case with the hardware platforms used in the WiiM Mini, the WiiM Pro, the WiiM Pro Plus and the WiiM Amp (launched in late 2023!). Are you saying that any of these product launches were violating Apple's terms, but unfortunately they slipped Apple's attention and because of that Apple had no means of revocing AirPlay certification for any of these devices? But somehow they did for the Ultra and the Amp Pro?

Can you supply any non-confidential evidence of how this would be possible?

Why then did WiiM remove AirPlay sender capabilies from said products but not AirPlay receiver capabilities?

 

[FLS3]

There are so many scenarios that could have resulted in the Airplay revocation it's hard to even speculate. I remember hardware dongles that were "obligatory" to run software like 3ds max, but it didn't take long for crackers to sidestep it. Not that Wiim were trying to "hack" the system, but integrating Apple's chip is an added expense. I don't know if Wiim was trying to dodge the Apple tax excise man, but it doesn't seem like they were exactly *expecting* to have Airplay revoked. Maybe it was NBD until another company complained... So many possibilities.

 

[mlsstl]

I've said it before and will say it again, but when issues between two companies result in disappointed customers, and neither company is willing to explain what happened, those customers make up their own stories, which are usually worse than what really happened. Both companies end up looking bad, though which one looks worse varies with which customer you ask.

Just glad I'm not an Apple user.

 

[BillH]

Linkplay is a systems integrator, most of these features are developed for brands they work with, then they release a low-price system under their own brand (Wiim) undercutting their own customers.. Of course it's cheaper when your competitors pay for most of the development. Is this illegal? No, and the brands made a mistake trusting Linkplay. But it's definitely a gray zone.

Then there is their agressive sales, often promising prices, features and quality that they can not meet, knowing that when a project is 75% in you can not move to a different platform and the brands are now dependent on them.

And then they hack in some features (Airplay..) without permission from service providers and sell a product, suddenly it has to be removed.. This is definitely not OK.

(Full disclosure, I work for another SI..)

I’m not sure I agree with your statement that it is a gray zone when the OEM uses their source code to release a competing product.

Aggressive sales? I think the record reflects they are delivering software updates and not leaving customers hanging.
Tell me what I’m missing.
Convince me they are a pariah…
Thanks

 

[shuppatsu]

That is correct, there is no legal problem here. But it is a breach of the social contract between system integrator (SI) and brand. An SI is useful because it allows brands to split development costs for common components without working together with their competitors (= sharing too much information). Once an SI turns into a brand (Linkplay -> WiiM) you suddenly have one company that knows inside information about a lot of competitors (used to be their customers) undercutting them.

Could you give an example of the kind of inside information you're talking about? Are you talking about technology, or market positioning? I'm struggling a bit to understand what Wiim could leverage from its clients' knowledge base.

 

[FLS3]

Could you give an example of the kind of inside information you're talking about? Are you talking about technology, or market positioning? I'm struggling a bit to understand what Wiim could leverage from its clients' knowledge base.

TSB seems to imply that the software "workaround" for Airplay was underhanded.

I'm curious if TSB, with his knowledge, might have some idea as to how much "properly" supporting Airplay might have added to the cost of the device for the consumer.

 

[shuppatsu]

TSB seems to imply that the software "workaround" for Airplay was underhanded.

I'm curious if TSB, with his knowledge, might have some idea as to how much "properly" supporting Airplay might have added to the cost of the device for the consumer.

That was a different point he was making.

Pretty sure that I read somewhere Wiim stating that they were using an open source library for Airplay support. Whether that’s legal or not may depend on the technology used and the jurisdiction. My knowledge of American law is fairly out of date but as I understand it reverse engineering is legal but only insofar as you don’t bypass any DRM. If the library requires spoofing authentication I’m pretty sure that’s illegal under the DMCA.

 

[uofmtiger]

I've said it before and will say it again, but when issues between two companies result in disappointed customers, and neither company is willing to explain what happened, those customers make up their own stories, which are usually worse than what really happened. Both companies end up looking bad, though which one looks worse varies with which customer you ask.

Just glad I'm not an Apple user.

I never blamed this on Apple since their website makes it clear that you need the chip. This appears to be some misunderstanding on Wiim’s part ( though I could be wrong since everyone, including me, is just speculating)… Apple probably missed the implementation on their other products.

Glad they didn’t require them to remove AirPlay from their older Wiim products. Linking with another Wiim device is the easiest way to get AirPlay on the Ultra without needing other devices involved.

That being said, a “mistake” in this area isn’t a deal killer for me.

 

[TSB]

I’m not sure I agree with your statement that it is a gray zone when the OEM uses their source code to release a competing product.

Aggressive sales? I think the record reflects they are delivering software updates and not leaving customers hanging.
Tell me what I’m missing.
Convince me they are a pariah…
Thanks

Agressive sales is a comment on the parent company Linkplay WRT to brands they make products for. I have no experience with customer-facing Wiim. Most people here seem quite happy with them. Not a pariah.

Could you give an example of the kind of inside information you're talking about? Are you talking about technology, or market positioning? I'm struggling a bit to understand what Wiim could leverage from its clients' knowledge base.

Both. As SI with a significant market position you can see (expected) sales, product designs, prices, etc from brands years before they are launched. This stuff is secret for a reason.

 

[TSB]

That was a different point he was making.

Pretty sure that I read somewhere Wiim stating that they were using an open source library for Airplay support. Whether that’s legal or not may depend on the technology used and the jurisdiction. My knowledge of American law is fairly out of date but as I understand it reverse engineering is legal but only insofar as you don’t bypass any DRM. If the library requires spoofing authentication I’m pretty sure that’s illegal under the DMCA.

This would be even worse than what I thought.

Since when exactly is the authentication chip obligatory?

You do mention yourself that Apple did certify purely software based solutions in the past. Obviously, that was the case with the hardware platforms used in the WiiM Mini, the WiiM Pro, the WiiM Pro Plus and the WiiM Amp (launched in late 2023!). Are you saying that any of these product launches were violating Apple's terms, but unfortunately they slipped Apple's attention and because of that Apple had no means of revocing AirPlay certification for any of these devices? But somehow they did for the Ultra and the Amp Pro?

Can you supply any non-confidential evidence of how this would be possible?

Why then did WiiM remove AirPlay sender capabilies from said products but not AirPlay receiver capabilities?

I should correct my previous post, what I wrote is wrong. Software is the newer auth method. So maybe Wiim thought they could support the new software auth with this open source library and save the cost of the auth IC? But I have no more information than others here so this is speculation.

Most plausible scenario to me is that Wiim announced the Airplay feature and then failed Airplay certification because of a problem with their software auth. From their statements it seems they are not able to support software authentication, this could for example be a limitation of their platform not being secure enough or just a lack of engineering resources. In that case it would require a hardware redesign to certify the product for airplay and they decided against it. (it would require a new certification for all services, very expensive) Presumably the older products do have the authentication IC.

I don't understand your last question. The WiiM Ultra does not support AirPlay and cannot function as an AirPlay receiver.

TSB seems to imply that the software "workaround" for Airplay was underhanded.

I'm curious if TSB, with his knowledge, might have some idea as to how much "properly" supporting Airplay might have added to the cost of the device for the consumer.

I can not tell you what apple charges for the auth IC, and extra cost per device depends on a lot of factors, integration cost, volume of sales, etc.

I've said it before and will say it again, but when issues between two companies result in disappointed customers, and neither company is willing to explain what happened, those customers make up their own stories, which are usually worse than what really happened. Both companies end up looking bad, though which one looks worse varies with which customer you ask.

Just glad I'm not an Apple user.

These authentication requirements are quite clear from Apple and have been for years. It would be very abnormal for apple to make public statements about why a certain product failed certification.

 

[harkpabst]

Most plausible scenario to me is that Wiim announced the Airplay feature and then failed Airplay certification because of a problem with their software auth. From their statements it seems they are not able to support software authentication, this could for example be a limitation of their platform not being secure enough or just a lack of engineering resources. In that case it would require a hardware redesign to certify the product for airplay and they decided against it. (it would require a new certification for all services, very expensive) Presumably the older products do have the authentication IC.

Possible, at least in theory, but still speculation. Personally I couldn't spot the MFi chip on any board unless it looked like this :

The only thing we know for sure is that a) the Ultra does not have the MFi chip and b) WiiM did start the production of the Ultra (at least in small quantities) prior to receiving Apple's formal certification. This can be called an error since it is against Apple's recommendations.

It's also possible that previous devices have been using software auth as well and that there have been other reasons for Apple to not approve WiiM's request. We simply don't know.

I don't understand your last question. The WiiM Ultra does not support AirPlay and cannot function as an AirPlay receiver.

My last question was related to the speculation that WiiM might have sold devices as AirPlay compatible receivers without any formal certification from Apple and this could simply have slipped Apple's attention. This is the most unlikely reason of all.

If that was the case, why would Apple restrict its actions just to the Ultra? They would have surely put WiiM under pressure to remove AirPlay from all devices. And sure enough Apple had the power to do this. My proof is the withdrawal of AirPlay sender capabilities from all devices preceding the Ultra. There's only one party who might have had an interest in putting that to an end and it's not WiiM ...

 

[Audiolab800]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Ultra network streamer, DAC, phono stage and preamplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $329.
View attachment 395569
Physical attribute are modern and attractive enough. Alas, I can't say the same thing about the graphical interface. Icons seem dated to me. They are also superfluous to what is in the App other than "now playing" screen. On that front, I am yet again disappointed by lack of volume control display even though there is plenty of room there:
View attachment 395570
Why emphasize bit rate and sample size instead of volume control? Also lacking is any indicator that you have EQ active and if so, which profile.

On that topic, the volume controls feels like it is scratching against the case. I tried to pull it out but would not move so left it alone, leaving an unsatisfying feel.

I tried to turn Ethernet off and it warned me that I would be switching to WiFi? Why is this either or instead of both being on at the same time?

Finally, there is no off switch on the UI or the unit itself:
View attachment 395571

The good news shows up when you look at the back and see such comprehensive connectivity, blowing away any stand-alone DAC or simple streamer. We have analog input, phono stage, and even HDMI ARC in addition to USB host capability. Alas, reading those names is next to impossible in most lighting/angles. As you see, I had to tilt the unit up for them to show up on the picture. Otherwise they wash away to same color as the case. Labels should be legible when looking down from above which the back is facing the wall.

The sophisticated app is there which instantly recognized the unit and allowed me to configure it. There is great value added here including proper crossover for bass management, EQ, etc.

WiiM Ultra DAC Measurements
I set up the unit for streaming over Ethernet from my Roon player and was greeted with excellent performance out of line out:
View attachment 395573
The WiiM Ultra easily makes way for itself among our very competent DACs, obviating the need to use an external one:
View attachment 395574
View attachment 395575
Noise performance is in the same class:
View attachment 395576

Multitone performance is great:
View attachment 395577

Here is the 50 Hz performance for comparison with Stereophile tests of DACs:
View attachment 395578
Linearity is perfect:
View attachment 395579

IMD test shows noise could be a bit better but distortion is nicely low:
View attachment 395580

Jitter shows some interference as we saw with WiiM Pro Plus but nto harmful to sound:
View attachment 395581

Filter attenuation beyond 24 kHz is excellent:
View attachment 395582

Frequency response is nice which is a good thing as I didn't see any option of changing the filter:
View attachment 395583

48 kHz wideband distortion+noise is not very good:
View attachment 395584
Increasing the sample rate fixed that indicating that there is some kind of noise shaping going on:
View attachment 395585

WiiM Ultra Headphone Output Measurements
I started with power testing which turned out just OK performance:
View attachment 395586
View attachment 395587
Stepping through the various load impedances shows substantial output impedance (should be near zero):
View attachment 395588

Response is also variable. So not a serious headphone amplifier.

WiiM Ultra Phono Stage Measurements
Let's start with our dashboard using MM mode:
View attachment 395606

And MC:

View attachment 395589
Noise floor seems elevated which when added to mains noise, resulted in lackluster performance. Fortunately RIAA equalization is good:

View attachment 395590

WiiM Analog Input Measurements
I configured the analog input for 24 bit/192 Khz:
View attachment 395602

So not bad. Here is the noise performance for both 24 bit and 16:
View attachment 395603

So better override the default 16 bits.

Frequency response is nice as and wide (at 192 kHz sampling):
View attachment 395605

WiiM Ultra Bluetooh Measurements
Someone suggested that I test the Bluetooth input using LDAC codec. I spent half hour trying to enable that and I could not. My Android phone would constantly show it in gray indicating the target device doesn't support it. A quick google found the FAQ for WiiM Ultra stating that it only supports SBC and AAC. Both turned in poor performance due to the nature of those codecs and their encoders in BT application:
View attachment 395591

I highly recommend company pursue supporting LDAC.

Conclusions
WiiM Ultra nails streaming performance with an excellent codec implementation. Rich functionality is another plus as is the App. The new display didn't do much for me and if anything, was a bit of a negative even though in general I am a fan of such things. Headphone output is not useful for serious listening. Phono stage may be OK if noise is not an issue. Finally, Bluetooth support is a let down with lack of LDAC support.

I think an overhaul of the GUI with a better platform and addition of LDAC would go a long way to justify the higher cost and display.

I am going to recommend the WiiM Ultra. There is such incredible amount of capability here that when combined with excellent codec and reasonable cost, it is hard to pass on it.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

I'm right or wrong?
When using the Wiim Ultra as a streamer, using the PEQ either with RCA out or even better USB out to a nice DAC, this is a good as it gets...
All other functions are of none importance for me, I search a streamer supporting Deezer and local library and if possible Peq OR Dirac.
Regards,
Patrick

 

[Romario]

I'm right or wrong?
When using the Wiim Ultra as a streamer, using the PEQ either with RCA out or even better USB out to a nice DAC, this is a good as it gets...
All other functions are of none importance for me, I search a streamer supporting Deezer and local library and if possible Peq OR Dirac.
Regards,
Patrick

Wiim pro will suffice if you add an outboard DAC. But build quality and looks matter too, don't it? Or is a doorstop on the streamer also an option?

 

[Saponetto]

My 5 cents about this device, after having some hours tinkering time at my friend's den.
Good performance, very nice loungy appeal and have to say, the USB input is a great plus.
That touch display is yeah, nice to see, but is also quite limited in its useability, and it's a bummer.
A dedicated rear display port able to connect the Ultra to a touch panel could have been way more useful, imho.
Overall, I don't see the Ultra as a completely developed device.
Hence, there is no currently valid reason to dismiss my Pro Plus, if I will continue to only use its digital outputs.

 

[harkpabst]

Overall, I don't see the Ultra as a completely developed device.
Hence, there is no currently valid reason to dismiss my Pro Plus, if I will continue to only use its digital outputs.

Since WiiM keep adding new features to the Pro Plus (and improving them as they go) we must consider it not "completely developed" as well, right?