WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

[pogo]

So no, I don't think this is ever going to happen.

Bluesound could do with a little competition at this point.

 

[GXAlan]

So you agree that TOSLINK doesn't max out at 96 kHz officially?

Because it doesn't. Even if some devices are limited to 96 kHz.

Toshiba offers different TOSLINK(TM) products with different bandwidth.

https://www.tme.eu/Document/3363e65f4c705941469014401686faf2/TOFC100-xx.pdf

And if you do the match, you run out of bandwidth.

That said, Toshiba makes stuff with 125Mb/s bandwidth.

While the patents are long expired, TOSLINK(TM) is still trademarked and refers to Toshiba optical product as opposed to “optical digital.” For all we know, third parties are what are enabling 24/192.

We talk a lot about which IC DAC is used (AKM, ESS, etc.). Looking at this, I bet the different transmitters and receivers play a role in what actually syncs.

Maybe TOSLINK(TM) officially maxes out at 96 kHz but Toshiba is conservative with their rating which is how you get 192 kHz. Maybe it’s third party optical tx/rx ICs that offer the higher bandwidth parts in their audio line.

 

[PatriceA]

Hello,
Within a month, I will be receiving a pair of Genelec 8361. My setup will be pretty simple: ROON (Qobuz and Synology NAS): digital output into 8361s; nothing more. Ultra is obviously a "good" solution in this context. I recently noticed that a FiiO streamer (S15) was due to be released soon. It will have digital AES out (Genelec recommended connexion) and analog XLR out (that I may use as well with FOSI amp). Room correction and bass management will come from GLM Genelec. Therefore, no use for ULTRA sub out / room correction / ... I will be waiting for S15 detailed specs. All comments welcome.

 

[shuppatsu]

Hello,
Within a month, I will be receiving a pair of Genelec 8361. My setup will be pretty simple: ROON (Qobuz and Synology NAS): digital output into 8361s; nothing more. Ultra is obviously a "good" solution in this context. I recently noticed that a FiiO streamer (S15) was due to be released soon. It will have digital AES out (Genelec recommended connexion) and analog XLR out (that I may use as well with FOSI amp). Room correction and bass management will come from GLM Genelec. Therefore, no use for ULTRA sub out / room correction / ... I will be waiting for S15 detailed specs. All comments welcome.

The S15 looks like a seriously beautiful piece of kit. However, I personally would vastly prefer the Wiim. Fiio describes the upcoming product functionally as a landscape mode version of the R9. The R7/R9 are Android based touchscreen setups that simply run the regular smartphone apps of various streaming services. It has a phone app, but it is extremely rudimentary. Looks like people like it with Roon so you might be fine, but it seems like it is centered around you manipulating things using the touchscreen rather than by phone.

People in this thread claim that so long as the run is short, you can use an rca coax to AES adapter like this without a transformer and it should work fine. It's crazy to me that Genelec doesn't include Toslink and Coax. I know they market to the pros but still I'm sure there's many a pro who has found that a limitation.

 

[Pritaudio]

It's one and the same thing. Room Correction creates a set of 10 PEQ filters. You can use them as they are, you can manually modify them, you can make your own. There's nothing secret inside WiiM RC.


Not sure what you mean. Sub integration is always manual in that you have to select a crossover frequency (low pass to sub and high pass to mains by default), subwoofer level and delay in ms (for either mains or - more likely - the sub).

The filters (high and low pass) are 4th order Linkwitz-Riley. There's a new option to bypass either the low pass filter or the high pass filter or both.

Automatic RC doesn't do anything specific to the subwoofer output. It just corrects within the defined frequency range (default: 40 Hz to 4 kHz).

1. How many profiles of eq can this thing store for quick access.
2. Regarding the new option to bypass high or low pass. This would be useful for listening at different times of day.
If combined with eq profiles, it could mean listening without the subwoofer when required.
3. With the sub out, Can the sub be eq’d seperately from the main stereos.
Otherwise the only advantage of the sub out is high/low pass in the software compared to using the back of the subwoofer manual settings.

 

[PatriceA]

The S15 looks like a seriously beautiful piece of kit. However, I personally would vastly prefer the Wiim. Fiio describes the upcoming product functionally as a landscape mode version of the R9. The R7/R9 are Android based touchscreen setups that simply run the regular smartphone apps of various streaming services. It has a phone app, but it is extremely rudimentary. Looks like people like it with Roon so you might be fine, but it seems like it is centered around you manipulating things using the touchscreen rather than by phone.

People in this thread claim that so long as the run is short, you can use an rca coax to AES adapter like this without a transformer and it should work fine. It's crazy to me that Genelec doesn't include Toslink and Coax. I know they market to the pros but still I'm sure there's many a pro who has found that a limitation.

Thanks' for your comments, Ultra is my initial / first choice and still is. S15 Digital AES and analog XLR outs are main advantages to me. I already have cable and Neutrik impedance adaptor for coax to AES. I have tested comparatively the two options (AES to AES / coax to AES) with one DMP A8 and found slight sound differences but unable to say if one is "better" than the other. I "prefered" AES to AES. Screen is OK to me and I prefer S15 form factor. Having read a few threads on R7 and R9, Android apps run smoothly (Roon and Qobuz are enough for me). I cannot find many details on FiiO phone app. Android OS is also a guaranty of compatibility for many years.
I'll wait for S15 detailed specs, specially on the two HDMI (OSD), DSD processing.... Contrary to R7 and R9, a remote should come with the unit. No info on DAC chips (ESS ou AKM).

 

[pogo]

coax to AES

Which adapter was used?

 

[PatriceA]

Which adapter was used?

Coax-BNC / Neutrik impedance adapter / AES

 

[pogo]

Does this also perform a level matching and not just an impedance matching?

 

[PatriceA]

This is a digital signal and I have problems understanding signal levels on SPDIF (if decoding occurs flawlessly). Short answer, I don't know but this is a passive adapter, therefore I doubt level matching.

 

[pogo]

This will explain the audible difference. Take a look at the signal flow chart of an active adapter: Link

The clock signal is contained in the data stream and the switching points jitter more on the edges due to the lower SNR caused by a lower signal level. Such deficits can be visualized on an eye diagram. A impedance mismatch causes further interference due to reflections, i.e. for an optimum result (more audible details, ...) the voltage level/impedance must be matched.
This is exactly what an active adapter offers.

What can be triggered by a parity error depends on the implementation.
The simple correction method is: Take the last valid sample, which in turn has an effect on the sound.

 

[PatriceA]

One XLR format cable carries both channels in digital AES/EBU standard; I fail to understand how it could be symmetrical! While an XLR format for analog one channel transmission (with two opposite phase signals) is very clear.​

​

AES3 Technical Specifications​

The AES3 standard, also known as AES/EBU, provides a detailed specification for digital audio transmission. Here are some key technical parameters:

Physical Layer​

• Connector: Typically a 3-pin XLR connector, but other connectors can be used.
• Signal: Balanced, differential signal.
• Impedance: 110 ohms.
• Voltage levels: Nominal levels are +/-5 volts, but the actual levels can vary within certain tolerances.

Data Format​

• Sampling rate: Variable, typically from 32 kHz to 192 kHz.
• Bit depth: Variable, typically from 16 to 24 bits.
• Frame structure: Each frame consists of 32 bits, including a sync word, channel status bits, and audio data.
• Channel coding: Each channel is transmitted separately.
• Error correction: CRC (Cyclic Redundancy Check) is used for error detection and correction.

Synchronization​

• Sync word: A specific pattern of bits used to synchronize the receiver with the transmitter.
• Channel status bits: Indicate the status of each channel, such as channel activity or mute.

Additional Features​

• Subframe format: Allows for the transmission of additional data, such as channel labels or timecode information.
• Channel polarity: Can be inverted to accommodate different equipment configurations.
• AES48: An extension of AES3 that provides additional features, such as sample rate conversion and channel selection.

 

[harkpabst]

1. How many profiles of eq can this thing store for quick access.

I didn't find a limit yet.

2. Regarding the new option to bypass high or low pass. This would be useful for listening at different times of day.
If combined with eq profiles, it could mean listening without the subwoofer when required.

Different EQ settings would be a much more flexible way of doing it and just as easy.

3. With the sub out, Can the sub be eq’d seperately from the main stereos.
Otherwise the only advantage of the sub out is high/low pass in the software compared to using the back of the subwoofer manual settings.

There are 10 "bands" of PEQ that you can assign to whatever frequency range you want. It doesn't matter if the given frequency happens to be covered by the sub of the mains. It's totally up to you.

I don't see how limiting a fixed number of PEQ settings to the sub and another fixed number to the mains should be more useful. If they decided to make it e.g. 10 settings for the mains and an additional 5 settings for the subs, then surely I would be there asking for assining all 15 settings to everything.

With PEQ I only see potential drawbacks. If you happen to change the crossover frequency later, what should happen to PEQ settings that are now no longer in the subwoofer's frequency range? If all you have is fixed frequency GEQ there might be some use for this split. But with fully flexible PEQ ... not so.

 

[PatriceA]

This will explain the audible difference. Take a look at the signal flow chart of an active adapter: Link

The clock signal is contained in the data stream and the switching points jitter more on the edges due to the lower SNR caused by a lower signal level. Such deficits can be visualized on an eye diagram. A impedance mismatch causes further interference due to reflections, i.e. for an optimum result (more audible details, ...) the voltage level/impedance must be matched.
This is exactly what an active adapter offers.

What can be triggered by a parity error depends on the implementation.
The simple correction method is: Take the last valid sample, which in turn has an effect on the sound.

I bought following adapter (passive)

Neutrik NADITBNC-M AES/EBU​

With attaches diagram.

The Neutrik you mention (with battery) is not the recommended model by Genelec (whatever that means).

 

[Pritaudio]

I require 3 profiles of 10 band eq manually created or entered.
All digital inputs should have the same 3 profiles available.
I have nothing analogue to use with Wiim, and will not even use the headphone out.
The digital signal out from the Wiim will go to an external dac, and then to speaker setup or headphones thereafter.
I will be using the rme adi2 for dac/preamp/headphone out purposes.
The rme adi2 only has 5 band eq.
I want to do the eq on the Wiim because it gives 10 band tuning as well as being in the digital domain.

The three profiles are for:
1. Speaker stereo setup with a sub.
2. Speaker stereo setup without sub.
3. Headphones.

I didn't find a limit yet.


Different EQ settings would be a much more flexible way of doing it and just as easy.


There are 10 "bands" of PEQ that you can assign to whatever frequency range you want. It doesn't matter if the given frequency happens to be covered by the sub of the mains. It's totally up to you.

I don't see how limiting a fixed number of PEQ settings to the sub and another fixed number to the mains should be more useful. If they decided to make it e.g. 10 settings for the mains and an additional 5 settings for the subs, then surely I would be there asking for assining all 15 settings to everything.

With PEQ I only see potential drawbacks. If you happen to change the crossover frequency later, what should happen to PEQ settings that are now no longer in the subwoofer's frequency range? If all you have is fixed frequency GEQ there might be some use for this split. But with fully flexible PEQ ... not so.

I want to be able to toggle between the 3 profile eq according to my required listening.

 

[Joffy1780]

I require 3 profiles of 10 band eq manually created or entered.
All digital inputs should have the same 3 profiles available.
I have nothing analogue to use with Wiim, and will not even use the headphone out.
The digital signal out from the Wiim will go to an external dac, and then to speaker setup or headphones thereafter.
I will be using the rme adi2 for dac/preamp/headphone out purposes.
The rme adi2 only has 5 band eq.
I want to do the eq on the Wiim because it gives 10 band tuning as well as being in the digital domain.

The three profiles are for:
1. Speaker stereo setup with a sub.
2. Speaker stereo setup without sub.
3. Headphones.


I want to be able to toggle between the 3 profile eq according to my required listening.

How much research have you actually done?
You can of course have 3 separate EQ profiles and they will be available for all inputs and you can toggle between them at your 'Wiim'.

 

[alaios]

Has someone reviewed the room correction feature?

 

[Joffy1780]

Has someone reviewed the room correction feature?

How do you mean review? There are lots of posts, on both the Wiim forum and here, by users sharing their results and experiences. Here's one such post by me
Post in thread 'WiiM Ultra' https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wiim-ultra.50897/post-2080465

 

[shuppatsu]

This will explain the audible difference. Take a look at the signal flow chart of an active adapter: Link

The clock signal is contained in the data stream and the switching points jitter more on the edges due to the lower SNR caused by a lower signal level. Such deficits can be visualized on an eye diagram. A impedance mismatch causes further interference due to reflections, i.e. for an optimum result (more audible details, ...) the voltage level/impedance must be matched.
This is exactly what an active adapter offers.

What can be triggered by a parity error depends on the implementation.
The simple correction method is: Take the last valid sample, which in turn has an effect on the sound.

Take what I say with a grain of salt because I don't know much about these things. What you say sounds plausible, but:

Re: jitter. Presumably the DSP would involve buffering and reclocking, right?

Re: reflections. Has anyone tested the error rate?

Re: audible difference. Shouldn't the default position in the digital domain be that differences are caused by sighted bias? Don't we need DBT to move off of that?

 

[Pritaudio]

The Wiim ultra roadmap includes a time alignment feature for the sub and main speakers.
Not sure if this will be accurate enough given the mic used in the handheld device for calibration.