WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

[morillon]

It’s just that the ADC stages in semi-pro—or even consumer-grade—sound cards were already outperforming our WiiMs 20 years ago... it’s a bit galling.

Products like the Ultra are marketed as preamp-streamers, so one can only hope that WiiM focuses on making significant improvements to those inputs—that's all.
But if you find that sufficient... I'm happy for you; that's the main thing.
;-)
(..and it also depends a lot on what you're listening to, etc. The question is always a bit like... "well, how does it sound with 128 or 192 kbps MP3s?"—that gives a good indication of the level of quality required...)

 

[antcollinet]

It’s just that the ADC stages in semi-pro—or even consumer-grade—sound cards were already outperforming our WiiMs 20 years ago... it’s a bit galling.

Really - do you have measurements? For consumer grade sound cards of the early 2000's that demonstrate this?


Because here is the first consumer grade soundcard I found reviewed here, and its ADC underperforms the Wiim by at least 10dB. And that is from 2019

Review and Measurements of Sound BlasterX AE-5

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Creative Las Sound BlasterX AE-5 internal PCI sound card/interface. It is on kind loan from a member. The AE-5 costs US $149 including Prime shipping on Amazon. Given the 6 channel output, line/microphone in, and headphone out, that is quite a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Soniclife]

Really - do you have measurements? For consumer grade sound cards of the early 2000's that demonstrate this?


Because here is the first consumer grade soundcard I found reviewed here, and its ADC underperforms the Wiim by at least 10dB. And that is from 2019

Review and Measurements of Sound BlasterX AE-5

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Creative Las Sound BlasterX AE-5 internal PCI sound card/interface. It is on kind loan from a member. The AE-5 costs US $149 including Prime shipping on Amazon. Given the 6 channel output, line/microphone in, and headphone out, that is quite a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I'd be stunned if I could abx my pro plus from a state of the art adc when fed from my phono stage, if I felt differently I'd buy something better.

 

[morillon]

Really - do you have measurements? For consumer grade sound cards of the early 2000's that demonstrate this?


Because here is the first consumer grade soundcard I found reviewed here, and its ADC underperforms the Wiim by at least 10dB. And that is from 2019

Review and Measurements of Sound BlasterX AE-5

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Creative Las Sound BlasterX AE-5 internal PCI sound card/interface. It is on kind loan from a member. The AE-5 costs US $149 including Prime shipping on Amazon. Given the 6 channel output, line/microphone in, and headphone out, that is quite a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Simple fastrack pro...e-mu....etc 2005 /2010 etc

just
have you observed measurements etc from the small pocketadc at 55dollars? vs ultra adc?
""But I don't have a problem with the fact that you don't have a problem with it.""
;-)

(For my part, I think the progress made on the ADC is the real issue... because it will partly determine future progress on what matters most: signal capture of sound, acoustical music etc)

 

[Labjr]

Does the ADC have enough stereo separation for vinyl?

 

[rjp]

Remember this is primarily a digital device. You state that you feel eversolo is lagging because of the lack of phono stage. Most other similar devices digitize the analog input. Here eversolo gives us a good analog volume control with analog inputs that are not digitized. You have picked one attribute that doesn't suit you and came to a questionable conclusion about the product. It may not be right for you, but to say it's lagging behind others because of the lack of phono stage is myopic.

I'm afraid you have jumped to an incorrect conclusion. I feel that Eversolo is lagging for multiple reasons, but I didn't want to be too negative at the time. Not sure why you have to be nasty (If language barrier, please advise). It appears your intention is to provoke. At any rate, here are some reasons.

As I mentioned, they just recently added a dedicated subwoofer output. This is great but late to the game. Also, it was less than 2 years ago that they first offered built-in measurement-based room correction.

You mention the pure anolog input option. I can see where this is useful for those who worry that digitizing their signals will degrade them, but Eversolo notably lacks the much more important feature of an analog input that *can* be digitized.

Because of this limitation it cannot apply its room correction filters, EQ, or bass management to analog inputs.

The lack of phono stage is just one more thing.

Lagging is not really so bad though. True, they are getting there ass handed to them by WiiM at present, but I believe they will catch on. The next generation will hopefully include a phono stage and the option to pass *all* inputs through their room correction, bass management, and digital EQ processing like WiiM currently does.

Sometimes you just need someone to show you the way.

 

[EJ3]

The ADC in the WiiM ultra is better than in thier other devices but probably not sota . Some distortions spikes but not noise , I would be more concerned if the low score came from noise .

Funny enough I use an external phono unit a Cambridge DUO connected to my ultra. To digitise vinyl to be able to use the DRC and EQ and conect to my KEF LS60 .

The combo is quiet enough , as I use the ADC for phono it shortcomings drown in the distortion from even a decent pickup and the vinyl media.

I realy wanted to buy a Michael Fidler phono stage but when I was purchasing it was temporarily unavailable.

There wasn't much better (IMHO) than my APT/Holman Pre-amp. I had been watching Mr. Fidler's work for a number of years. When this came out, I decided that it was enough of an improvement to make it worth getting. It took me a couple of months to get the money together and I was lucky enough to be able to get one of the last red ones.
Since then, I have been grateful that I had saved half the money already for a "rainy day" and only had to raise the other half.
I must say that, looking back on the purchase: I am extremely happy with this purchase.

 

[antcollinet]

Simple fastrack pro...e-mu....etc 2005 /2010 etc

just
have you observed measurements etc from the small pocketadc at 55dollars? vs ultra adc?
""But I don't have a problem with the fact that you don't have a problem with it.""
;-)

(For my part, I think the progress made on the ADC is the real issue... because it will partly determine future progress on what matters most: signal capture of sound, acoustical music etc)

I think the main point is - for legacy analogue devices (Vinyl, Tape) its performance is sufficient that it will have no detrimental impact on the sound - probably not even measurable: The result of putting noise dominated -70dB through a distortion dominated -87 db will be to worsen that -70dB probably by only around 0.1 dB - within run to run variation. And bear in mind you are only going to be achieving -70dB with a near perfect turntable setup and very clean vinyl.

If you connect a CD player to it then you will be giving away a little bit of performance. But again - probably not audible for nearly everyone in real world listening. Even if it is audible - it will be barely noticeable except by fast ABX sort of testing, and so not relevant to enjoyment. And in any case - for a CD you should not be using an analogue connection.

 

[harkpabst]

If you connect a CD player to it then you will be giving away a little bit of performance. But again - probably not audible for nearly everyone in real world listening. Even if it is audible - it will be barely noticeable except by fast ABX sort of testing, and so not relevant to enjoyment.

Well, that may be true. But if going from average "probably not audible" to SotA "definitely not audible" can be had for very little money, I fully understand people asking for it.

I'm aware of the fact that a number of such "just improve this important aspect" request piling up would result in a noticeably more expensive end product.

OTOH, upgrading the quality of the analog inputs will probably not silence those critics asking for a pure analog pass-through. Even better digital is probably still wrong for their beliefs.

 

[somebodyelse]

Really - do you have measurements? For consumer grade sound cards of the early 2000's that demonstrate this?

M-Audio cards were more semi-pro than consumer, but measure pretty well even by current standards. The 2496 was around in early 2001, maybe earlier. Ground related noise was sometimes an issue as it only had RCAs. The 24192 came a bit later with balanced 1/4" TRS on a breakout cable. I'm still using them. Here are some loopbacks taken relatively recently:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds-from-close-to-25yrs-ago.45119/post-1608140

Edit: these weren't exactly cheap. List in the UK was £179 but a fair bit lower in the US (enough that I saved money even after shipping and import taxes). Add 25 years of inflation and that's £347 today according to the Bank of England. The Ultra is currently £369 at amazon.co.uk and Richer Sounds.

 

[gasolin75]

I don't care. I'm not subscribed to his channel and he blocked viewers who are not sub'd from commenting on this video, so thought I'll write here.
most of the video is him ranting about its "DAC sound" and comparing to Fosi's new(ish) streamer

EDIT: @Pausi what do you mean by "old remote"? the remote he has on top of the Ultra looks the same like the one i got with my Ultra (about a year ago) and Pro Plus. are they shipping now Ultras with "remote ver 2" (the white one)?

The remote is made out of plastic, the remote on the wiim ultra amp is made of metal, and as fare as i know is rechargeable

 

[Mort]

That's the optional upgraded remote. I didn't know they were shipping the Amp Ultra with it.

 

[gasolin75]

I hate to see so many praises for the WiiM saying basically "you can't beat it for the money". I think it's hard to beat *period*. Regardless of the money. Seriously, is there any real compromise with the Ultra? To get the same features with Eversolo you'd need the new DMP-A8 gen2 at 5x the price.

Mabye if wiim made a wiim ultra master edtion (ecersolo ?) with better hardware,processor and dac + more inputs 2-3 and added a calibrated mic to the streamer/software (no need to download software to make the responce flat, all mics are tested and the calibration data is in the streamer) without raising the price more than 100 euros, that would be cool Bonus if the would add a 1 inch wider touch screen (just enough space for it) + a smoother volume knob as butter smooth as the wiim vibelink (how it feels when you turn it up and down) stil with a price no more than 100 euros above the current wiim ultra streamer

 

[gasolin75]

Or the Wiims do what is needed for less money. Means I can buy several Wiim Ultra for multi room, rather than one Eversolo

But can a 2000 euro eversolo do what 3-4 wiim ultra can ?

 

[Mort]

But can a 2000 euro eversolo do what 3-4 wiim ultra can ?

No would be my answer.

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

That's the optional upgraded remote. I didn't know they were shipping the Amp Ultra with it.

Amp Ultra did ship with the upgraded rechargeable alloy-body remote. The standard UItra streaming DAC only comes with the plastic controller.

 

[rjp]

Mabye if wiim made a wiim ultra master edtion (ecersolo ?) with better hardware,processor and dac + more inputs 2-3 and added a calibrated mic to the streamer/software (no need to download software to make the responce flat, all mics are tested and the calibration data is in the streamer) without raising the price more than 100 euros, that would be cool Bonus if the would add a 1 inch wider touch screen (just enough space for it) + a smoother volume knob as butter smooth as the wiim vibelink (how it feels when you turn it up and down) stil with a price no more than 100 euros above the current wiim ultra streamer

I hope they do offer a premium option like this in the future. I would allow up to about 1000 USD personally. I'd like to see something like the build quality of Eversolo, but with the feature set of the Ultra. And of course it needs balanced XLR outputs. But honestly I'll likely buy anything they release. They've impressed me.

 

[antcollinet]

Well, that may be true. But if going from average "probably not audible" to SotA "definitely not audible" can be had for very little money, I fully understand people asking for it.

Sure - I understand that too. But I'm more focussed on the audibility topic to prevent people restricting their choices over inaudible performance metrics.

 

[gasolin75]

Amp Ultra did ship with the upgraded rechargeable alloy-body remote. The standard UItra streaming DAC only comes with the plastic controller.

 

[somebodyelse]

The remote is made out of plastic, the remote on the wiim ultra amp is made of metal, and as fare as i know is rechargeable

View attachment 556207View attachment 556206

I'm glad I've got the plastic one. Sharp edges may look nice and keep machining costs down, but they don't feel good in the hand. Battery life isn't enough of an issue to need the built in rechargeable.