WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

[harkpabst]

One thing I really appreciate about WiiM is that they're still actively improving Room Correction through firmware. It's rare to see companies continue refining DSP features after launch instead of treating the product as "finished.

I cannot disagree.

In the case of the WiiM Ultra this policy is even more beneficial, because whe it was launched it didn't even have room correction.

It did have PEQ from the very start, so manual RC was still possible.

 

[Ruediger]

Imagine how the market would perceive an Ultra 2 with XLR/TRS balanced out and a ESS9039Q2M. Not much left to be desired from this competetive box.

Yep I know there is a wish thread on the WiiM forum.

 

[john61ct]

With possibility of stereo bass management, USB input and a better HPamp

 

[Ruediger]

With possibility of stereo bass management, USB input and a better HPamp

More subwoofers -> I think it can be done in software, just a matter of more jacks.

USB input -> as in what a DAC does, would be great. As in read filesystems, folders, files, oh my that's a can of worms. But doable of course.

HP amp -> it's obviously basic. I wondered if the dual output option didn't also have the backgroud to add a headphone amp. I think a really good HP amp would drive the price up though.

First thing to me is ESS9039. "Everybody else" did the upgrade. They already have the Vibelink on the newer DAC. And the amp Ultra too. Just the Ultra is missing.

 

[AgarWave]

More subwoofers -> I think it can be done in software, just a matter of more jacks.

USB input -> as in what a DAC does, would be great. As in read filesystems, folders, files, oh my that's a can of worms. But doable of course.

HP amp -> it's obviously basic. I wondered if the dual output option didn't also have the backgroud to add a headphone amp. I think a really good HP amp would drive the price up though.

First thing to me is ESS9039. "Everybody else" did the upgrade. They already have the Vibelink on the newer DAC. And the amp Ultra too. Just the Ultra is missing.

Let's be real, those forum guys are obsessing over the ESS9039, but based on my experience running Fosi Audio and WiiM, the current DAC implementation is completely audibly transparent. The AP measurements don't lie, proving that swapping to a newer chip for a marginally higher SINAD is pure snake oil. A proper level-matched blind test would instantly show them that the chip is totally useless compared to tangible features like proper XLR inputs.

 

[Ruediger]

Let's be real, those forum guys are obsessing over the ESS9039, but based on my experience running Fosi Audio and WiiM, the current DAC implementation is completely audibly transparent. The AP measurements don't lie, proving that swapping to a newer chip for a marginally higher SINAD is pure snake oil. A proper level-matched blind test would instantly show them that the chip is totally useless compared to tangible features like proper XLR inputs.

For them (WiiM) it would be for very different reasons than chasing the better sinad option. The ESS9039 is the new/current generation, 6 years newer, at some point it's simply expected by the customers. WiiM already did implementations, it's nothing new - just the Ultra streamer left to do.

There are more technical differences between these DACs. Quite a lot actually. But not all do matter for a device like the Ultra, I guess.

 

[somebodyelse]

USB input -> as in what a DAC does, would be great. As in read filesystems, folders, files, oh my that's a can of worms. But doable of course.

I assume it was about USB gadget mode so you could connect to a PC - in which case I'd also like to see input channels to record from the Ultra as well as the outputs for playback. The Linkplay module in the Ultra actually has an OTG port so they could have had gadget mode if they wanted, but it would have been an either/or choice between computer and DAC/storage/hub. To have both it would probably need something like a USB to spdif adapter.

The Ultra already reads filesystems and folders to play audio files from USB storage. They could add USB ADCs for extra analog inputs like they have for USB DACs as outputs with the existing hardware. Doing surround with other USB DAC channels as an alternative to other Wiim devices paired over the network would be another good option. Or AES67 devices maybe?

More subwoofers -> I think it can be done in software, just a matter of more jacks.

Or use USB connected DACs instead of internal ones. I'm assuming they're using something like pipewire to keep things in sync.

I've suggested before that they could use the USB for adding expansion modules that stack nicely for those who want more inputs or outputs, balanced etc.

 

[john61ct]

USB input -> as in what a DAC does, would be great. As in read filesystems, folders, files, oh my that's a can of worms. But doable of course.

It's always done that, plug in USB data drive, near instant local play, also DLNA/UPnP server

Just not USB Audio input

 

[Acapella]

Maybe someone else has a similar problem and can help me out:

When I’m using my WIIM Ultra (connected via Toslink to the Onkyo P-80) and I want to play an album (whether from the local Plex server or Qobuz), the first two seconds of the first track get “skipped.”
Sound doesn’t come out of the system until after those two seconds.
If I start the album again, everything plays as usual from the very first second, and nothing gets “swallowed up.”

I’ve already adjusted the delay for the optical output, but that didn’t help.
I suspect this might be an issue with the WIIM Ultra when you start playback while the Ultra is in standby mode.
In my opinion (if designed correctly), this shouldn’t happen, but unfortunately it does.

Have you experienced similar issues, and perhaps only with the Toslink output?

My previous Bluesound streamer (also connected via Toslink) worked without any problems.

Thanks in advance.

 

[john61ct]

Copypasta to the main forum for quicker / better response.

Why are you going Digital out rather than analog?

Have you disabled Wiim's auto-standby?

Can you set that redundant DAC to "always-on" or "standby-thru" mode to keep the optical input active?

 

[Ruediger]

I’ve already adjusted the delay for the optical output, but that didn’t help.
I suspect this might be an issue with the WIIM Ultra when you start playback while the Ultra is in standby mode.
In my opinion (if designed correctly), this shouldn’t happen, but unfortunately it does.

Try the following:

Set optical out on the WiiM to a fixed rate f.e. 192/24.

Disable fade in/out effects.

The second one would point to an odd behaviour in that combination. I don't need to do that with any combination of Ultra and DAC/optical behind it.

Last but not least try analog out to the Onkyo. Just to see if that is different. I suspect the Onkyo will digitize the signal anyway, so it's not the better connection. But the negotiation of toslink doesn't happen.

 

[Acapella]

So I did some testing.

Generally:
- The Onkyo P-80 has Dirac Live Bass Control Enabled so it digitizes everything which comes in and then applies the Dirac filters on it
- The Wiim Ultra is powered off (via Smart Switch) when the system is off, don't want to have all the devices in standby mode when nobody is using the TV or the audio system

What I test:
- Fixed at 192kHz and 24Bit changes nothing --> was also active all the time since I have the ultra
- On/Off Fade in/out effects changes nothing
- Enabled / disabled the simultaneous output on the analog outputs also changes nothing

What I noticed:
- The Toslink output or better the signal itself (red light) is off when the Wiim ultra is powered up
- Also it gets off when the Wiim enters the standby mode
- When I then start to play an album (no difference if first album after powered the Ultra or when start an album when the Ultra is in standby mode) the Toslink signal itself (red light) gets activated and together with that the Ultra starts to play the Album. Of course then the connected Onkyo (or also another DAC) needs then to recognize that there is a signal on Toslink and to check the signal rate and to play the signal over the Speakers. I think that leads then to the "skipped" first two seconds of the album.

For me that is a fault in the firmware of the Wiim itself as this only happens on the Toslink Output. The Headphone output (for example) is working normal and I can hear audio here from the first second on.

Sadly the Onkyo only has one Coaxial and Toslink input so I need to stick then with the analog output as the coaxial input is reserved for my measurement interface.

Analog connection then leads to double A/D D/A conversion but I hope that will not lead into anything audible...

 

[Ruediger]

There is no silent signal or audio out of hearing band played to keep the link engaged, if you think that should be happening.

The digital connection has to be negotiated and then the link is up and audio plays - this is usually a matter of milliseconds, not seconds. And there is no such missed lead-in with the DACs or amps I put behind an Ultra.

I suspect the processing of the Onkyo (Dirac?) introducing a delay/unfilled buffer here. Can you test with minimal options, Dirac off, pure direct or alike?

 

[Acapella]

With the analog output everything is working fine.
Also with the former Bluesound Node Nano there was no problem all the time.

For me the main point is that the Wiim is shutting down the optical signal when no music is playing or when starting up for the first time on the day.
All other devices I know have the optical signal active all the time when they get connected to power.

So for me this is a bad combination of activating the optical signal when starting to play music together with the onkyo which needs then so recognizes that there is a signal on the optical input and then negotiates the signal if everything is compatible and then starts to play the audio.

I see here a difference in only negotiating sample rates (between Wiim and Onkyo) when music is playing and recognizing that there is a optical signal on the optical input and then negotiating sample rates etc...

 

[Ruediger]

Yes, some devices have optical active all the time. Obviously not the case here.

It's the first time I hear it leading to a problem though.

 

[Acapella]

For me this makes absolutely sense as I compare it with fiber networking modules.
When there is no optical signal available you cannot negotiate which speed and so on is possible between the SFP modules.
This will only start when there is a optical signal available means there is a light visible.

 

[harkpabst]

For me that is a fault in the firmware of the Wiim itself as this only happens on the Toslink Output. The Headphone output (for example) is working normal and I can hear audio here from the first second on.

Very similar to what @Ruediger wrote, I never had any issues with the WiiM Ultra connected to the WiiM Vibelink Amp through toslink.

For testing purposes I had the Ultra connected to my Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 and again, no issues with skipped parts of a track.

Does the skipping happen irrespective of bit depth and sampling frequency? Is it the same with e.g. 16 bit 44.1 kHz? Did you try different optical cables? The one that comes with the WiiM Ultra is pretty good.

It's not impossible that there is some specific compatibility issue between the Ultra and the P-80, of course. But this is not a general issue, we have to many examples where toslink works perfectly well.

Your best bet might be sending feedback to WiiM directly through the WiiM Home app (tap on "More..." => "Feedback and Tickets". By doing so, device logs are sent along for the support team to diagnose. So it's.best to actively force the error directly before you send feedback.

 

[Acapella]

I will do later a test with my measurement interface which also has an optical input.
With audacity I should then see if there is a skip of the first seconds until audio is playing or not.
If everything is working there normal, then its then combination of the Ultra with the P-80 and I use then the analog outputs.
As I said, all the other devices connected to the optical input of the P-80 where working fine.

 

[Hifi for life .]

1: Can this be used with a sub connected to it ?

2: Run the EQ and the advanced EQ settings without sub present.

Just by connecting it like any normal streamer using the outputs line connections from the Wiim to the Yamaha line cd inputs.

Shall I use sub.

I know I need to cheat by addressing the volume dial on the Yamaha amp

Adjust it to 11/12 o clock and the use the Wiim own volume control . Connect the sub I want to the Wiim . Run EQ etc. Isn’t this true ?

I just want to know before I decide to buy sub if it is possible use room fit etc . Without connecting sub to it.

Would like to see what the EQ settings can do by using the Wiim according with the Yamaha AS701.

Wiim Ultra streamer has optical etc. Can be used like an active crossover. Amp(s) with can be be used liked power amps .

Many questions!

Thanks ! !

 

[john61ct]

I have trouble fully understanding your English, but I'll try.

1. Yes

2. Yes

1: Can this be used with a sub connected to it ?

2: Run the EQ and the advanced EQ settings without sub present.

> Just by connecting it like any normal streamer using the outputs line connections from the Wiim to the Yamaha line cd inputs.

yes

> Shall I use sub.

Up to you

> I know I need to cheat by addressing the volume dial on the Yamaha amp

addressing? not cheating.

> Adjust it to 11/12 o clock and the use the Wiim own volume control .

Whatever level you want your "maximum" to be.

> Connect the sub I want to the Wiim . Run EQ etc. Isn’t this true ?

Yes

> I just want to know before I decide to buy sub if it is possible use room fit etc . Without connecting sub to it.

Yes, with or without

> Would like to see what the EQ settings can do by using the Wiim according with the Yamaha AS701.

> Wiim Ultra streamer has optical etc. Can be used like an active crossover.

Only with the sub


> Amp(s) with can be be used liked power amps .

Yes just treat Yamaha as a plain power amp, do all tone control etc from Wiim.