WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

[Chanur]

I doubt it - it is typical of what you see on many lower cost phono preamps. It is probably also lower than the surface noise of vinyl itself.

Thanks. Spoke to Peachtree audio and not only did they NOT try to upsell me on the seperates I asked about but they also recommended something cheaper than the integrated amps I was asking about. They said buy their stereo power amp and use a WiiM as a preamp and save a thousand bucks. Was pretty refreshing and they seem like a stand up company.

 

[somebodyelse]

It is probably also lower than the surface noise of vinyl itself.

It is to my ears with a Corus Black (Goldring 10xx variant MM). I was going to try making some measurements before commenting, but that might take a while.

 

[qirex]

I doubt it - it is typical of what you see on many lower cost phono preamps. It is probably also lower than the surface noise of vinyl itself.

IIRC 70dB-ish is the theoretical dynamic range limit for vinyl and most pressings are way below that. I'd say you might hear a difference vs outboard if you tried really hard but in a room with a normal noise floor I doubt it.

 

[Chanur]

IIRC 70dB-ish is the theoretical dynamic range limit for vinyl and most pressings are way below that. I'd say you might hear a difference vs outboard if you tried really hard but in a room with a normal noise floor I doubt it.

My ears are in no way exceptional. Particularly now that I'm in my 40s. I won't worry about it. Thanks for all the input gang. Think I've got my ideal set up for now. I'll provide feedback when ever I get them.

 

[BassThatHertz]

Is there a difference in quality (even if just measured and not audible) between the Line Out and Optical Out?

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

Is there a difference in quality (even if just measured and not audible) between the Line Out and Optical Out?

You’re comparing an analog out to a digital out; that’s not doable. It depends on the quality of the DAC you attach to the optical output. You’d have to compare the output of that DAC to the line out of the WiiM.

 

[antcollinet]

Is there a difference in quality (even if just measured and not audible) between the Line Out and Optical Out?

Of course there is. Massive measured difference (eg 115dB Sinad vs the 140dB Sinad that all digital outputs will give you). Though still inaudible, since the line out is already audibly perfect.

(but be aware that "sinad" of a digital output is really a meaningless term - see next paragraph)

But the optical out has to be converted to analogue somewhere. And wherever it is, then the quality will be no better than the line out from the Wiim. And probably measurably (though likely not audibly) worse, since the Wiim Dac is as good as any and better than most.

Why are you asking?

 

[Mnyb]

Thanks all , reporting back re room fit . Using an Umik with my iPad was a really good solution and easy to do MMM

Evaluating what I like most currently my own correction with REW or room fit . As it was easy to do MMM it’s very good , it’s more effort to do it manually. This will work splendidly for many people.
I did a “flat” correction and then added the same tweaks as I use for my own manual corrections. ( mainly some subjective bass boost ).

You quickly get into circles of confusion trying to pick what’s right in the midbass low midrange eventually I have to play enough recordings and pick something. Especially when dealing with the usual small room acoustics and a transition frequency that’s probably in the same realm.


Notes:

Room fit had no problems with levels it just ran with what I had .
It adressed similar problem areas as my manual REW measurement, it’s the same room it found the same things , MMM is more average, as you would expect ( tried to sweep my whole sofa to make it work for more than one person )

Limits 30-200 becomes 30-300 it does not strictly follow your limits ? Either it’s a bug or it’s gradually tapering off the correction.

It has 3 target curves . Flat is obvious but there is no documentation on what “Harman” or “B&K” is exactly they should present a graph in the documents not only on screen. Would be interesting to know what WiiM’s interpretations of these curves are .
I’m not even sure that target curves are a good idea, my understanding is that it should be the “ result curves” of good speaker designs interacting fortunately with reasonable room acoustics,not something you can hammer any speaker to follow . The risk is messing with the direct sound to fix the reflected sound ( hence why i limited my correction )

You still have to turn the iPad portrait to handle some menus in the WiiM app they still haven’t figured landscape mode properly….

 

[harkpabst]

Limits 30-200 becomes 30-300 it does not strictly follow your limits ? Either it’s a bug or it’s gradually tapering off the correction.

Currently, the true lowest upper limit is always 300 Hz, no matter which upper limit you pick. The UI should reflect what's really happening, so in the end it is a bug, one way or another.

 

[Mnyb]

Anyone knows if seing the raw room fit measurements are on the road map ?

You see the curves during the process, nice !

But after the fact the only visible curves are the applied correction ?

 

[harkpabst]

Anyone knows if seing the raw room fit measurements are on the road map ?

You see the curves during the process, nice !

But after the fact the only visible curves are the applied correction ?

It's been requested to implement a to store measurements and just do different calculations (e.g. for different target curves) for these measurements. That's the closest thing to your request. But this is not part of any roadmap and WiiM did not confirm to be working on it.

 

[Mnyb]

It's been requested to implement a to store measurements and just do different calculations (e.g. for different target curves) for these measurements. That's the closest thing to your request. But this is not part of any roadmap and WiiM did not confirm to be working on it.

Ok anyhow the ease of doing the measurements invites to make more of them and try the different methods you get a feel for your own room that way , I’ll remember to make screenshots next try . There are a few large peaks/resonances that always pop up regardless of method , that learns me that they are main features of my listening environment.

It would have been interesting to have the data saved for later and possibly compare all of them .

 

[Soniclife]

It would have been interesting to have the data saved for later and possibly compare all of them .

REW is a better fit for this level of involvement, you have a lot more control over the filters as well.

 

[Mnyb]

REW is a better fit for this level of involvement, you have a lot more control over the filters as well.

Well yes ,but WiiM solutions is very engaging and gets you involved . In my case during recent remodeling of our home my stationary computer with REW is at oposite end of the house , I use to make it with a 15 meter USB cable for the umik ( but now its to short ) . But with no way for playback so I was using a file with the signal .

To fully utilize REW i need a laptop

I find room fit easy to use , but with some limitations . Probably because its centered around phone or iPad use , no PC app or web UI , but I'm in general happy with it .

My old MeridianG68 with it's own mic input had a serial cable and its own software , it had other limitations no multiple positions or MMM and limited range* but you could view the data and save as files .

*imo a feature , did not tempt users to correct above shroeder but it was not adjustable .

 

[somebodyelse]

It is probably also lower than the surface noise of vinyl itself.

Following up with some measurements - Corus Black -> Phono in -> Coax out -> PC coax in. Volume 100, EQ off, no pre gain so should be unchanged from what's leaving the internal ADC. I went for a 12" single with a 4 minute track that's probably as hot a recording as I have, and clean, so should give about the best dynamic range I can hope for. It turns out this combination is just a bit too hot as it clips 6 times during the recording - with a nominal 6.5mV it's a fairly high output cartridge. Anyway using Audacity's Analyze->'Measure RMS' menu option on different selections of 'silence' and knowing the signal is using the whole of FS we get these for the Stereo reading:

Before drop: -inf dB - digital silence. This is why I wanted to measure as I was suspicious.
After drop, lead in before music: -23.8dB - a lot noisier than I usually get on an LP.
Lead out: -40.3dB - closer to what I expect on LP lead in. The one I tried before trying the 12" was around -46dB for comparison.
After needle lift: -76.3dB - the noise level of the phono input loaded with a real world MM.

After a while it'll spot the lack of input and digitally mute, showing "The music has stopped" on screen.

Conclusions:
1. Phono stage self-noise is a lot lower than record surface noise in this case, and it looks like there's enough margin that even with a low output cartridge at the end of an LP side the phono stage noise still won't make a significant contribution.
2. With a high output cartridge and a hot recording there is zero headroom, although what clipping there was lasted only a few samples, and appeared to recover cleanly rather than latching or oscillating.

It'll be interesting to see if I get clipping on any other recordings, whether from pops and clicks or from high recording levels. I suspect most will be fine.

 

[antcollinet]

Following up with some measurements - Corus Black -> Phono in -> Coax out -> PC coax in. Volume 100, EQ off, no pre gain so should be unchanged from what's leaving the internal ADC. I went for a 12" single with a 4 minute track that's probably as hot a recording as I have, and clean, so should give about the best dynamic range I can hope for. It turns out this combination is just a bit too hot as it clips 6 times during the recording - with a nominal 6.5mV it's a fairly high output cartridge. Anyway using Audacity's Analyze->'Measure RMS' menu option on different selections of 'silence' and knowing the signal is using the whole of FS we get these for the Stereo reading:

Before drop: -inf dB - digital silence. This is why I wanted to measure as I was suspicious.
After drop, lead in before music: -23.8dB - a lot noisier than I usually get on an LP.
Lead out: -40.3dB - closer to what I expect on LP lead in. The one I tried before trying the 12" was around -46dB for comparison.
After needle lift: -76.3dB - the noise level of the phono input loaded with a real world MM.

After a while it'll spot the lack of input and digitally mute, showing "The music has stopped" on screen.

Conclusions:
1. Phono stage self-noise is a lot lower than record surface noise in this case, and it looks like there's enough margin that even with a low output cartridge at the end of an LP side the phono stage noise still won't make a significant contribution.
2. With a high output cartridge and a hot recording there is zero headroom, although what clipping there was lasted only a few samples, and appeared to recover cleanly rather than latching or oscillating.

It'll be interesting to see if I get clipping on any other recordings, whether from pops and clicks or from high recording levels. I suspect most will be fine.

Nice measurementns

Is there any gain adjustment possible on the input? (Before ADC)?

 

[somebodyelse]

Is there any gain adjustment possible on the input? (Before ADC)?

I'm not sure, but I doubt it. The pre-gain is the only thing I've found in the app, and as it's showing the same range for all inputs I assume it's digital after the ADC for the analog inputs. We might be able to find a bit more from photos of the internals.

 

[Rotiv]

Thank you, laptop HDMI > TV HDMI , TV HDMI > Wiim HDMI, Wiim optical out > soundbar optical in, worked this way.

First of all, I want to thank everyone who contributed to a better understanding of the REW application. There is a lot of information in ASR, without it, a novice like me would struggle with many difficulties.

With a near-anechoic measurement using impulse response, I think I managed to obtain a result that allowed for the refinement of the filters.

I used room fit from 20 to 500kz, and from 500 to 20,000kz, the REW filters that I manually transferred to the Wiim app.

 

[harkpabst]

First of all, I want to thank everyone who contributed to a better understanding of the REW application. There is a lot of information in ASR, without it, a novice like me would struggle with many difficulties.

With a near-anechoic measurement using impulse response, I think I managed to obtain a result that allowed for the refinement of the filters.

I used room fit from 20 to 500kz, and from 500 to 20,000kz, the REW filters that I manually transferred to the Wiim app.

Did you use the moving microphone method in REW or any other technique to average the result across multiple positions? Or did you just measure in one exact location?

In the latter case I suggest you evaluate your (very good looking) results in around your MLP, like where you might move your head during a normal listening session. Impressively flat measurements, for sure.

 

[Rotiv]

Did you use the moving microphone method in REW or any other technique to average the result across multiple positions? Or did you just measure in one exact location?

In the latter case I suggest you evaluate your (very good looking) results in around your MLP, like where you might move your head during a normal listening session. Impressively flat measurements, for sure.

very good-looking indeed

I used mmm with the phone, Umik 1, Smoothing 1/12 in Roomfit. In REW, as I said, I used one measurement and, through the frequency response created by impulse response, (near-anechoic measurement) the filters were made.

I also took 5 measurements on-axis 15°, 30° left, same on the right and used the average to make the filters, which were very similar to the others.

Honestly, I didn't expect these results; I'm talking about a soundbar with an SVS SB2000 Pro...