Wiim Ultra or DX 5 II?

[MattJ_78]

Hello ASR! I have been lurking ASR for a while but I decided to finally join the discussion. My sincerest thanks to all who contribute to the wealth of information on ASR. It truly is a valuable resource! As an engineer myself I fully accept the measurements first philosophy.

I'm trying to decide which streamer/DAC/pre-amp to get for my living room setup and I could use some help deciding. I believe I have narrowed it down to either the Wiim Ultra or the Topping DX5 II. I'm leaning towards the Wiim because of the built-in room correction, but the DX5 II is tempting since it measures so well. But one thing I've learned on ASR is that EQ is far more important than the DAC. Also, feel free to recommend something besides those options. My budget is not strict, but I'm trying to stay below $1K.

Whichever option I choose, the analog out will feed my Rotel RMB-1080 two channel amp, that powers my B&W 703s. Old school, I know! This DAC will be replacing my Rotel RSP-1068 processor that died. Currently this is strictly a 2-channel system.
My primary uses are:
- Streaming movies/TV via optical out from my TV (Apple TV 4K and 4K blu-ray feeds the TV)
- Streaming from Qobuz
- Listening to CDs with my Rotel RCD-1072

Wiim Ultra
Pros
- Simple built-in room correction. With the option to venture into REW if I want.
- Integrated streaming.
- Analog in for my CD player.
- Sub out if I want to add one.
Cons
- No coax digital in. CD player only has coax digital out. Would need to rely on the internal DAC of the CD player, which is probably fine. The player has de-emphasis which may be beneficial.
- No USB input from my laptop. The streaming function would replace this anyway as I only stream Qobuz from my laptop. I don't have any FLAC files on my laptop.
- No LDAC.

DX5 II
Pros
- Every digital input I could need.
- LDAC
- Balanced connections I could use with my RMB-1080. Although I've always used RCA and never had an issue.
- PEQ
Cons
- No integrated streaming.
- No built-in room correction. I would need to learn REW to use it, if I'm understanding this correctly.
- No analog inputs. My CD player has de-emphasis, so maybe it's better to use the onboard DAC in my player.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Hello ASR! I have been lurking ASR for a while but I decided to finally join the discussion. My sincerest thanks to all who contribute to the wealth of information on ASR. It truly is a valuable resource! As an engineer myself I fully accept the measurements first philosophy.

I'm trying to decide which streamer/DAC/pre-amp to get for my living room setup and I could use some help deciding. I believe I have narrowed it down to either the Wiim Ultra or the Topping DX5 II. I'm leaning towards the Wiim because of the built-in room correction, but the DX5 II is tempting since it measures so well. But one thing I've learned on ASR is that EQ is far more important than the DAC. Also, feel free to recommend something besides those options. My budget is not strict, but I'm trying to stay below $1K.

Whichever option I choose, the analog out will feed my Rotel RMB-1080 two channel amp, that powers my B&W 703s. Old school, I know! This DAC will be replacing my Rotel RSP-1068 processor that died. Currently this is strictly a 2-channel system.
My primary uses are:
- Streaming movies/TV via optical out from my TV (Apple TV 4K and 4K blu-ray feeds the TV)
- Streaming from Qobuz
- Listening to CDs with my Rotel RCD-1072

Wiim Ultra
Pros
- Simple built-in room correction. With the option to venture into REW if I want.
- Integrated streaming.
- Analog in for my CD player.
- Sub out if I want to add one.
Cons
- No coax digital in. CD player only has coax digital out. Would need to rely on the internal DAC of the CD player, which is probably fine. The player has de-emphasis which may be beneficial.
- No USB input from my laptop. The streaming function would replace this anyway as I only stream Qobuz from my laptop. I don't have any FLAC files on my laptop.
- No LDAC.

DX5 II
Pros
- Every digital input I could need.
- LDAC
- Balanced connections I could use with my RMB-1080. Although I've always used RCA and never had an issue.
- PEQ
Cons
- No integrated streaming.
- No built-in room correction. I would need to learn REW to use it, if I'm understanding this correctly.
- No analog inputs. My CD player has de-emphasis, so maybe it's better to use the onboard DAC in my player.

Welcome to ASR !

I think you have thought this out well....

For me, the cons of DX5 II you have listed outweigh the cons listed for the WiiM Ultra

I would choose the WiiM Ultra over the Topping DX5 II.

 

[MattJ_78]

Welcome to ASR !

I think you have thought this out well....

For me, the cons of DX5 II you have listed outweigh the cons listed for the WiiM Ultra

I would choose the WiiM Ultra over the Topping DX5 II.

Thanks for your input!

 

[xlinknz]

note you can get a bi directional coax to optical convertor they're relatively inexpensive as I was considering that for my DAC less CD/SACD transport that did not have optical out when I was considering a Wiim Ultra

 

[MattJ_78]

note you can get a bi directional coax to optical convertor they're relatively inexpensive as I was considering that for my DAC less CD/SACD transport that did not have optical out when I was considering a Wiim Ultra

Ah, interesting. Thanks. I do plan on connecting my TV to the optical input on the Wiim. But does this bi-directional convertor work as a hub to allow me to run the TV and CD player to the optical in?

 

[MattJ_78]

Of course I did run through the gamut of options considering an AVR (Dennon X1800H), MiniDSP Flex, RME, Eversolo, SMSL, etc. I don't plan on setting up a surround system, so I didn't see the need for the AVR. The MiniDSP would be great, but it doesn't have the benefit of built-in RC and the price is steeper. The Eversolo DMP-A8 somewhat combines the Wiim Ultra and DX5 II with tons of connections, but $2K is steep. With the money left over from going with the Wiim Ultra I could replace my B&W 703s!

 

[staticV3]

No coax digital in. CD player only has coax digital out. Would need to rely on the internal DAC of the CD player, which is probably fine. The player has de-emphasis which may be beneficial.

Coax to Optical converters are cheap and bit-exact.

 

[MattJ_78]

I wanted to follow up to report that bought the Wiim Ultra and set it up over the weekend. I definitely like it. It was very easy to setup and customize. The build quality is better than I expected and the app integration works very well. The menu system performance is fast and responsive. Definitely the right pick for my system. I have not had a change to run the room correction or mess with the EQ, but I should be able to this weekend. I can always add a miniDSP Flex to get Dirac and do streaming only with the Wiim if I feel so inclined later. Wiim RC for now, though. Thank you to those who helped!

 

[xlinknz]

I wanted to follow up to report that bought the Wiim Ultra and set it up over the weekend. I definitely like it. It was very easy to setup and customize. The build quality is better than I expected and the app integration works very well. The menu system performance is fast and responsive. Definitely the right pick for my system. I have not had a change to run the room correction or mess with the EQ, but I should be able to this weekend. I can always add a miniDSP Flex to get Dirac and do streaming only with the Wiim if I feel so inclined later. Wiim RC for now, though. Thank you to those who helped!

If you get the coax to optical converter on paper the Wiim DAC should be better than the one in Rotel RCD-1072 but you'd also be able to compare the Rotel with its DAC vs the Wiim's

 

[MattJ_78]

If you get the coax to optical converter on paper the Wiim DAC should be better than the one in Rotel RCD-1072 but you'd also be able to compare the Rotel with its DAC vs the Wiim's

Thanks. I may give that a try.

 

[Petrushka]

Coax to Optical converters are cheap and bit-exact.

I seem to recall a converter tested here that wasn’t great. It was maybe $20, but it was the kind of thing you’d buy thinking because it’s digital, it should be perfect.

 

[staticV3]

I seem to recall a converter tested here that wasn’t great. It was maybe $20, but it was the kind of thing you’d buy thinking because it’s digital, it should be perfect.

Are you thinking of the USB to AES3 converter that Amir tested?

Because I can't find any SPDIF converter reviews, at least nothing with Optical, Toslink, S/PDIF, or SPDIF in the Review title.

 

[xlinknz]

There is a difference between a $20 DAC (which have been reviewed here) and a fibre to coax media convertor

 

[bravomail]

Hello ASR! I have been lurking ASR for a while but I decided to finally join the discussion. My sincerest thanks to all who contribute to the wealth of information on ASR. It truly is a valuable resource! As an engineer myself I fully accept the measurements first philosophy.

I'm trying to decide which streamer/DAC/pre-amp to get for my living room setup and I could use some help deciding. I believe I have narrowed it down to either the Wiim Ultra or the Topping DX5 II. I'm leaning towards the Wiim because of the built-in room correction, but the DX5 II is tempting since it measures so well. But one thing I've learned on ASR is that EQ is far more important than the DAC. Also, feel free to recommend something besides those options. My budget is not strict, but I'm trying to stay below $1K.

Whichever option I choose, the analog out will feed my Rotel RMB-1080 two channel amp, that powers my B&W 703s. Old school, I know! This DAC will be replacing my Rotel RSP-1068 processor that died. Currently this is strictly a 2-channel system.
My primary uses are:
- Streaming movies/TV via optical out from my TV (Apple TV 4K and 4K blu-ray feeds the TV)
- Streaming from Qobuz
- Listening to CDs with my Rotel RCD-1072

Wiim Ultra
Pros
- Simple built-in room correction. With the option to venture into REW if I want.
- Integrated streaming.
- Analog in for my CD player.
- Sub out if I want to add one.
Cons
- No coax digital in. CD player only has coax digital out. Would need to rely on the internal DAC of the CD player, which is probably fine. The player has de-emphasis which may be beneficial.
- No USB input from my laptop. The streaming function would replace this anyway as I only stream Qobuz from my laptop. I don't have any FLAC files on my laptop.
- No LDAC.

DX5 II
Pros
- Every digital input I could need.
- LDAC
- Balanced connections I could use with my RMB-1080. Although I've always used RCA and never had an issue.
- PEQ
Cons
- No integrated streaming.
- No built-in room correction. I would need to learn REW to use it, if I'm understanding this correctly.
- No analog inputs. My CD player has de-emphasis, so maybe it's better to use the onboard DAC in my player.

room correction of Wiim easily trumps all other issues. it just works, and works well.
I have Wiim Ultra connected to 3e Audio A5. could not be happier.

 

[SanojS]

You have a very capable power amp and nice speakers. Mistake you may do is to use a DAC as preamp. This is not really what you want... If you don't have an analog pre-amp I wouldn't recommend going Wiim Ultra -> Rotel directly due to the digital volume control will lose some resolution at low and medium sound levels. I would highly recommend feeding signal to an analogue preamp for proper gain control without losing resolution, fed by full signal from DAC stage.

I would recommend either something like the Luxsin X9 that has a proper analog volume control (takes HDMI eARC) or if you want just to play with room correction use the miniDSP Flex as DSP/DAC or get the Wiim Pro Plus or Ultra and get a competent used preamp for volume control.

I would personally only go with DAC -> Poweramp directly if I have a budget system with something like cheap chifi poweramps to some lower quality speakers for desktop or if I have an integrated amp.

 

[staticV3]

You have a very capable power amp and nice speakers. Mistake you may do is to use a DAC as preamp. This is not really what you want... If you don't have an analog pre-amp I wouldn't recommend going Wiim Ultra -> Rotel directly due to the digital volume control will lose some resolution at low and medium sound levels.

The only way in which you can lose information to digital attenuation is if you can hear hiss out of your speakers from the MLP which goes away when you plug out the WiiM.

This hiss would be a factor limiting playback dynamic range and masking potential low level detail.

If there is no hiss, then there is no low level detail that can ever be lost to digital attenuation.

 

[SanojS]

The only way in which you can lose information to digital attenuation is if you can hear hiss out of your speakers from the MLP which goes away when you plug out the WiiM.

This hiss would be a factor limiting playback dynamic range and masking potential low level detail.

If there is no hiss, then there is no low level detail that can ever be lost to digital attenuation.

Not really. Depends on the DAC and the implementation of digital volume control (24- or 32-bit for example). In any way, the lower you go, the higher the relative DAC noise floor is to the volume level, and the lower the SINAD goes and also dynamics relative to total volume - it's just the nature of how digital chip-based volume control is done.
Some DACs have better digital volume control, and some have R2R or step ladder volume on the analogue stage (e.g. Luxsin X9), which is to prefer.
There are several threads about this on the forum. It is measurable as well.

It all depends on your end-to-end system. I don't know how the user is playing his music, but the power amp and speakers are quite nice and I would want to have as good a signal as possible. They warrant an old-school approach to the signal, keeping the volume control on the analog stage to preserve as much sound quality as possible.

I recommend, with such a system and such revealing and demanding speakers, to preserves DAC’s full resolution and SINAD regardless of listening level, and use attenuation after conversion. Can also lower the noise floor impact by keeping the DAC output “hot” and then trimming in analog. If you have a pair of ****** speakers and some chifi power amp in the 100 USD range, then no - doesn't matter that much. Run it directly from the DAC.

 

[staticV3]

Not really.

Yes really.

On modern DACs, low level detail doesn't vanish into the void when applying digital attenuation, like with a noise gate for example.

Instead, low level detail always dips into the DAC's inherent noise floor.

If you cannot hear the DAC's noise floor from your MLP, then there is no information that can can possibly be masked by the DAC's noise floor, that could potentially be recovered by turning up the DAC and attenuating in analog, which would reduce the effective DAC noise floor and reveal low level detail in its place.

Hence, digital attenuation only limits playback dynamic range/audibility of low level detail if you can actually hear the DAC's noise floor.

 

[Captain Thunderpants]

Just read DX5 ll branch on this forum and decide if you're ready to risk it. Mine broke day two. There are reports of dx5 ll seppuku itself if both balanced and unbalanced cables connected to the amp.

 

[Harryharryharry]

The Wiims are such great products. They just work. Best software in the audio space I've used. I have an older one into my minidsp flex running dirac so you could do that like you say