Wiim Ultra as Streamer Only --> RME ADI-2 FS DAC?

[David9323]

Hi, all.

I'm currently running ROON on an Intel NUC straight into an RME ADI-2 FS dac and then out via XLR to my monoblocks. I want to be able to run HDMI Out from my TV on my main system so I can take advantage of the Dolby Atmos capabilities of the TV. (I realize it's not surround on my 2.0 system, but the sound quality is definitely better with Atmos on than through the TOSlink out I'm currently using, which doesn't allow Dolby to pass through). The Wiim Ultra seems the perfect solution, but I imagine the RME is a better DAC than the Wiim Ultra's built-in DAC and would like to bypass it, using the Wiim as a streamer only.

Do I do this via the hardware or the software? That is, how do I make sure the signal is going straight into my RME ADI-2 without first going through the Wiim DAC?

Thanks!

 

[Greenman]

Hi, all.

I'm currently running ROON on an Intel NUC straight into an RME ADI-2 FS dac and then out via XLR to my monoblocks. I want to be able to run HDMI Out from my TV on my main system so I can take advantage of the Dolby Atmos capabilities of the TV. (I realize it's not surround on my 2.0 system, but the sound quality is definitely better with Atmos on than through the TOSlink out I'm currently using, which doesn't allow Dolby to pass through). The Wiim Ultra seems the perfect solution, but I imagine the RME is a better DAC than the Wiim Ultra's built-in DAC and would like to bypass it, using the Wiim as a streamer only.

Do I do this via the hardware or the software? That is, how do I make sure the signal is going straight into my RME ADI-2 without first going through the Wiim DAC?

Thanks!

I don’t have an ultra, but I think it’s just a matter of choosing the correct outputs on the Ultra. Analogue outputs have gone through the Ultra DAC (if via digital input). Digital outputs on the Ultra will not pass through the DAC

 

[TimW]

As far as I understand, the Wiim Ultra can accept Dolby Digital 5.1 but it can't decode Dolby Atmos.

I'm confused about why you think Dolby Atmos will sound better with your 2-channel system. Is there going to be some sort of processing applied by the TV?

A DAC is a Digital to Analog Converter. If you use the Analog outputs of the Wiim, you are using its DAC. If you use the Digital outputs of the Wiim (Optical, Coaxial, or USB) then you are not using its DAC because there is no conversion to analog taking place. You select which output you want and the output level in the Wiim app.

 

[David9323]

Thanks to both respondents. I understand now.

 

[Audiophilipp]

Just for anyone who is thinking about this option. I have both the Wiim Ultra and an ADI-2 FS. The Wiim ultra is connected via HDMI Arc to my LG G4 which works like a charm. Before I had the Adi Dac via optical cable directly connected to the TV and the sound quality was perfect, but the functionality with the adi remote lacked of comfort. The Wiim is just perfect in terms of usability but it lacks of sound quality. Now I have connected the Adi Dac via optical to the Wiim and to my surprise it manages the volume control through the optical connection. Now I have the best of both worlds, the sound is superp again and the volume control via HDMI arc. PEQ is used in Adi Dac and turned off in Wiim. Wonderful solution, but expensive. I would have preferred an all in one solution but the TV is wall mounted and all devices hide between the small gap between wall and TV. Just for anyone wondering the Adi is connected via XLR to a purifi et400a. Adi and purifi turn on via a 12v triggered plug.

 

[ahofer]

BTW, there is a plug-in for Roon that can control the volume on the ADI DAC.

rooADI - Device Volume Control for RME ADI-2 family DACs

Dear Roon users, with rooADI I provide a Device Volume Control from Roon for all DACs of the ADI-2 Family! The ADI-2 family of DACs from RME consists of ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 Pro and ADI-2/4 Pro. Using one of these famous ADI-2 DACs with Roon the only disadvantage is that it did not offer Device...

community.roonlabs.com

Also, the SofaBaton remotes can be programmed for the RME controls.

I think your method of controlling the volume (WiiM optical —> ADI) may defeat the dynamic loudness on the ADI, but I’m not positive. It is level-sensitive, but I think it only responds to the ADI’s volume setting, not the digital input level. I could be wrong.

 

[MC_RME]

BTW, there is a plug-in for Roon that can control the volume on the ADI DAC.

rooADI - Device Volume Control for RME ADI-2 family DACs

Dear Roon users, with rooADI I provide a Device Volume Control from Roon for all DACs of the ADI-2 Family! The ADI-2 family of DACs from RME consists of ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 Pro and ADI-2/4 Pro. Using one of these famous ADI-2 DACs with Roon the only disadvantage is that it did not offer Device...

community.roonlabs.com

Also, the SofaBaton remotes can be programmed for the RME controls.

I think your method of controlling the volume (WiiM optical —> ADI) may defeat the dynamic loudness on the ADI, but I’m not positive. It is level-sensitive, but I think it only responds to the ADI’s volume setting, not the digital input level. I could be wrong.

No, you are right. It depends on the volume set at the ADI.

 

[ahofer]

No, you are right. It depends on the volume set at the ADI.

Here's hoping you guys are working on that roon-ready streamer (with display out)....

 

[Audiophilipp]

Just for anyone who is thinking about this option. I have both the Wiim Ultra and an ADI-2 FS. The Wiim ultra is connected via HDMI Arc to my LG G4 which works like a charm. Before I had the Adi Dac via optical cable directly connected to the TV and the sound quality was perfect, but the functionality with the adi remote lacked of comfort. The Wiim is just perfect in terms of usability but it lacks of sound quality. Now I have connected the Adi Dac via optical to the Wiim and to my surprise it manages the volume control through the optical connection. Now I have the best of both worlds, the sound is superp again and the volume control via HDMI arc. PEQ is used in Adi Dac and turned off in Wiim. Wonderful solution, but expensive. I would have preferred an all in one solution but the TV is wall mounted and all devices hide between the small gap between wall and TV. Just for anyone wondering the Adi is connected via XLR to a purifi et400a. Adi and purifi turn on via a 12v triggered plug.

Just a small addition: sound quality is even slightly improved if you connect the adi dac to the Wiim ultra via USB. This way the internal clock of the adi dac is used and it clearly sounds better. And the hdmi arc volume control works as well.

So the only drawback is the dynamic loudness feature...

 

[antcollinet]

Just a small addition: sound quality is even slightly improved if you connect the adi dac to the Wiim ultra via USB. This way the internal clock of the adi dac is used and it clearly sounds better. And the hdmi arc volume control works as well.

So the only drawback is the dynamic loudness feature...

That is two claims you've made about audible deficiencies of the Ultra which are not supported by the measurements. I'm assuming you've reached these conclusions based on uncontrolled listening comparisons.

If so, then while this might be fine for you, for anyone else reading this should not assume their experience will bear any relationship to yours.

You should also be aware that - unless there is some problem with your setup, these differences you are perceiving are vanishingly unlikely to be in the audio performance of the DACs, and are, instead, constructs of your brain. You could save yourself some system complexity (and money if you can sell the RME, or use it elsewhere), by using the built in DAC of the ultra.

 

[Audiophilipp]

Oh, you are very mistaken. First of all I like the Wiim ultra a lot, and am quite happy to have found a way for integration whereas sound quality and usability are combined. I had the Wiim Amp before and in comparison to my setup with the adi-2/purifi it was not satisfactory. I sold the Wiim Amp and went for the Wiim ultra. I used the ultra as a dac before and it was ok, however far away in sound quality in comparison with the adi-2.

Audible differences are that clear, that my wife and even my two kids who are untrained confirmed which version sounds better, completely uninfluenced. Believe me, I wish it was different since I had to buy an additional dac for my pc which I didn't want to do.

But that is the same discussion as always. Some don't have a decent set of loudspeakers or ears and rely only on measurements by others...

 

[ahofer]

Audible differences are that clear, that my wife and even my two kids who are untrained confirmed which version sounds better, completely uninfluenced.

We’ve heard this sort of special pleading before:

A list of Audiophile Fallacies

I posted this in another thread, but I thought it might be useful to open source some more ideas in a separate thread. “To be a genius is to be misunderstood. But to be misunderstood is not to be a genius”. - Neil DeGrasse Tyson ..nor is being hard to understand - me. Ad Vinum Audio is like...

audiosciencereview.com

Welcome and a quick introduction (mind the links in the text, they are useful), The second paragraph of the quoted text is particularly apposite here. You probably didn’t have levels matched, if there was a difference at all.

Post in thread 'Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-at-asr-for-the-first-time.17598/post-2155722

People at ASR tend to view good sound as (for electronics) fidelity to signal, and speaker output conforming to Toole and Olive's research. If you like the sound distorted, less accurate, or prefer some other speaker presentation, that's fine, but own it, don't pretend a) lesser fidelity is greater accuracy or b) there must be something wrong with these standards because of your personal preferences or c)you can hear something that can't be measured. There's no need to rationalize your tastes.

Most of us also believe that the way to test for *strictly audible* differences is by properly executed and level-matched double blind procedures, or through taking measurements and recording a result above audible thresholds. The fact that you noticed a difference outside of these conditions simply isn't evidence of a difference in signal quality at your ears. Even if it is a difference in the signal, as opposed to some sighted bias, it is likely to be a difference in amplitude rather than something more subtle.

Finally, all of the above mistakes are simply human. No human being is so "experienced" or "trained', or "sensitive" as to be able to make sighted comparisons objectively.

 

[Audiophilipp]

Sure, all good, then continue to believe that the Wiim Dac and Adi Dac sound the same. Maybe all dacs sound the same.

 

[unpluggged]

This way the internal clock of the adi dac is used and it clearly sounds better. And the hdmi arc volume control works as well.

You are misunderstanding how it works. In both cases the ADI-2's clock is used, but in case of external inputs it syncs to them. And the SteadyClock FS technology gets rid of the jitter.

And no, clock quality differences at these scales have no effect on sound (i.e. audible) quality.

Maybe all dacs sound the same.

Maybe.

 

[Audiophilipp]

So, there is no measurable and therefore no audible difference between optical or USB connection?

 

[unpluggged]

So, there is no measurable and therefore no audible difference between optical or USB connection?

Not in competently executed designs.

Here @MC_RME explains how clocking is handled in RME devices:

 

[antcollinet]

Audible differences are that clear, that my wife and even my two kids who are untrained confirmed which version sounds better

Your wife and kids weren't in the kitchen were they by any chance?

 

[antcollinet]

Sure, all good, then continue to believe that the Wiim Dac and Adi Dac sound the same. Maybe all dacs sound the same.

Maybe they do. If they measure as transparent.

 

[antcollinet]

So, there is no measurable and therefore no audible difference between optical or USB connection?

Measurable? - yes, sometimes, depending on the capability of the toslink clock recovery in the DAC.

Audible? - no. Jitter after clock recovery is an order of magnitude or two below audibility.

 

[ahofer]

So, there is no measurable and therefore no audible difference between optical or USB connection?

DEMO / MUSINGS: Let's listen to some jitter simulations with sideband distortions...

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

Measurement instruments are much more sensitive than our ears.