WiiM Ultra 2.2 Setup

[Connor1a]

Hey guys…

I’m currently running a pair of SVS SB-1000 Pro subs in mono along with a pair of Warfedale Lintons using a WiiM ultra w/ bass management.

I’d like to convert the setup to a stereo 2.2 while retaining the WiiM’s room correction capability. My thought is to buy a MiniDSP 2x4, connect it between the WiiM and my sub amps/mains amps as a crossover, setup the subs and mains each on their own port such that I have my 2.2 defined, and then have WiiM run its RC algorithm in R/L channel mode for RC. So:

WiiM (Line-out) -> (Line-in) MiniDSP 2x4 -> (line level input - not LFE) Subs and then
WiiM (Line-out) -> (Line-in) MiniDSP 2x4 -> (line level input) NCx500 monoblocks -> Warfendales

Would this work? Or would I need to buy the more expensive MiniDSP Flex w/ the Bass Mgmt module? I’m not keen to spend 1K$ (Flex + SW licenses) on a DSP. Perhaps in the future, but my discretionary $$s aren’t in the >1k$ range at the moment…

Appreciate your guidance… Thanks

 

[staticV3]

I'd connect both subs to the WiiM's Sub output using a splitter and keep sub playback in Mono.

90% of music has Mono bass anyway and the 10% that doesn't, can't effectively be reproduced in a room because room modes will inevitably mess up localizeability.

 

[Chrise36]

Hey guys…

I’m currently running a pair of SVS SB-1000 Pro subs in mono along with a pair of Warfedale Lintons using a WiiM ultra w/ bass management.

I’d like to convert the setup to a stereo 2.2 while retaining the WiiM’s room correction capability. My thought is to buy a MiniDSP 2x4, connect it between the WiiM and my sub amps/mains amps as a crossover, setup the subs and mains each on their own port such that I have my 2.2 defined, and then have WiiM run its RC algorithm in R/L channel mode for RC. So:

WiiM (Line-out) -> (Line-in) MiniDSP 2x4 -> (line level input - not LFE) Subs and then
WiiM (Line-out) -> (Line-in) MiniDSP 2x4 -> (line level input) NCx500 monoblocks -> Warfendales

Would this work? Or would I need to buy the more expensive MiniDSP Flex w/ the Bass Mgmt module? I’m not keen to spend 1K$ (Flex + SW licenses) on a DSP. Perhaps in the future, but my discretionary $$s aren’t in the >1k$ range at the moment…

Appreciate your guidance… Thanks

Connect each sub to speaker out

 

[Miniyouuuu]

I'd connect both subs to the WiiM's Sub output using a splitter and keep sub playback in Mono.

90% of music has Mono bass anyway and the 10% that doesn't, can't effectively be reproduced in a room because room modes will inevitably mess up localizeability.

MiniDSP allows you to set independent gain, delay crossover and EQ for each 4 outputs. That’s a clear improvement over splitters

 

[staticV3]

MiniDSP allows you to set independent gain, delay crossover and EQ for each 4 outputs.

Most of these can be set using the SVS App for your Pro subwoofers, also independently.

No extra hardware required.

 

[Connor1a]

Most of these can be set using the SVS App for your Pro subwoofers, also independently.

No extra hardware required.

I’m a veteran SVS programmer at this point. I use SVS’ app in conjunction with WiiM’s RoomFit to dial in my system. If you’re familiar with the WiiM’s RoomFit function, the first graphic is what I’ve been able to achieve from my listening position. I haven’t tried the Harmon or flat curves yet.

That being said, I guess what you’re saying is that the MiniDSP 2x4 wouldn’t buy me anything…? I’d thought it might be able to support multiple measurement RC (though I now see I was mistaken - RC w/ a Dirac lic. requires the Flex). That is, while I can get a decent curve from my main listening position, deviating to one side or the other pretty quickly causes highs to drop off (they seem highly directional - my room is quite small so the sound beam is very narrow I believe) and bass to become boomy. I’m also battling room (null) issues around 50hz and 80hz. That being said, would the Flex make a meaningful difference? The system is 100% music. I have no plans to use it for home theater if that makes a difference.

Thanks so much for the advice…

 

[Connor1a]

Connect each sub to speaker out

I’ve done this with both my mains and subs receiving 100% of the line signal and then I put in a low pass filter on my subs @ 80hz (SVS has its own set of PEQs / filter etc) to save them working on higher frequencies. Unfortunately, that didn’t help my mains (which are full range, but I’d rather not have them sending out duplicate frequencies - it defeats the purpose of having subs). So, I need a high pass filter @ 80hz to get the low frequencies off my mains. That’s what started me down the path of the MiniDSP 2x4… It (I think) can provide me with the crossover (DSP) that I need to get my mains and subs working together, but what’s not clear to me is whether it’d be able to do significantly better than the WiiM Ultra I currently use for bass integration. That’s my conundrum…

 

[staticV3]

I’m a veteran SVS programmer at this point. I use SVS’ app in conjunction with WiiM’s RoomFit to dial in my system. If you’re familiar with the WiiM’s RoomFit function, the first graphic is what I’ve been able to achieve from my listening position. I haven’t tried the Harmon or flat curves yet.

That being said, I guess what you’re saying is that the MiniDSP 2x4 wouldn’t buy me anything…? I’d thought it might be able to support multiple measurement RC (though I now see I was mistaken - RC w/ a Dirac lic. requires the Flex). That is, while I can get a decent curve from my main listening position, deviating to one side or the other pretty quickly causes highs to drop off (they seem highly directional - my room is quite small so the sound beam is very narrow I believe) and bass to become boomy. I’m also battling room (null) issues around 50hz and 80hz. That being said, would the Flex make a meaningful difference? The system is 100% music. I have no plans to use it for home theater if that makes a difference.

Thanks so much for the advice…

View attachment 477662

No room correction of any kind can make your speakers less directional. That part, a Flex can't help with.

As for room modes and bass becoming boomy when outside the MLP, what you're looking for is Multi Sub Optimizer or Dirac Live Bass Control.

The most cost-effective way would be WiiM Sub out->miniDSP 2x4HD->both subwoofers.

Here's a guide: https://www.minidsp.com/applications/subwoofer-tuning/minidsp-multi-sub-optimizer

 

[Chrise36]

I’ve done this with both my mains and subs receiving 100% of the line signal and then I put in a low pass filter on my subs @ 80hz (SVS has its own set of PEQs / filter etc) to save them working on higher frequencies. Unfortunately, that didn’t help my mains (which are full range, but I’d rather not have them sending out duplicate frequencies - it defeats the purpose of having subs). So, I need a high pass filter @ 80hz to get the low frequencies off my mains. That’s what started me down the path of the MiniDSP 2x4… It (I think) can provide me with the crossover (DSP) that I need to get my mains and subs working together, but what’s not clear to me is whether it’d be able to do significantly better than the WiiM Ultra I currently use for bass integration. That’s my conundrum…

In that case try using the 80hz filter to help the mains and correct your subs (boost if needed) with their app before moving to other solutions.

 

[Connor1a]

The most cost-effective way would be WiiM Sub out->miniDSP 2x4HD->both subwoofers.

I read the instructions. Definitely need some caffeination.

I take it MSO is free to use, community supported SW? Other than the SW that comes along with the Mini DSP 2x4, is there anything else I would need for the Mini DSP? I believe REW is donation supported?

Unfortunately, I don’t have a PC per se (I live on an iPad). I do have some Frankenstein bits and pieces I may be able to use to build one though.

The daunting bit would be freeing up the cables necessary to connect the MiniDSP 2x4 to the subs and the WiiM. I literally just tucked them all up nice and neat lol…

You’re definitely of the opinion that the mono sub management coming out of the WiiM trumps a stereo sub setup for music?

Thanks again…

 

[staticV3]

I take it MSO is free to use, community supported SW? Other than the SW that comes along with the Mini DSP 2x4, is there anything else I would need for the Mini DSP? I believe REW is donation supported?

You'd need a 2x4HD and a measurement microphone.

REW, MSO, and the miniDSP Console are free to use.

You’re definitely of the opinion that the mono sub management coming out of the WiiM trumps a stereo sub setup for music?

Yes. Stereo sub placement makes bass response consistency worse with no appreciable upside, as long as the crossover frequency is low enough.

Too high a crossover and the subs will absolutely become localizeable, at which point I'd choose Stereo placement and just live with the poor consistency.

But if your Mains play deep enough to enable an appropriate crossover frequency, then Mono subs + MSO all the way.

For this, I'd set the subs to LFE (all processing disabled), EQ them with the 2x4HD + MSO as flat as you can at both ends, and then you can adjust the crossover frequency and overall subwoofer gain in the WiiM Home App, to taste.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

No room correction of any kind can make your speakers less directional. That part, a Flex can't help with.

As for room modes and bass becoming boomy when outside the MLP, what you're looking for is Multi Sub Optimizer or Dirac Live Bass Control.

The most cost-effective way would be WiiM Sub out->miniDSP 2x4HD->both subwoofers.

Here's a guide: https://www.minidsp.com/applications/subwoofer-tuning/minidsp-multi-sub-optimizer

I've come to the same conclusion, I may even try optical from the Wiim into Minidsp 2x4 HD out to my subwoofers and speakers.

 

[Connor1a]

As a tangent, I wonder, for a given space, would the DSP or room treatments provide better value?

My listening room (aka my lounge) is a hot mess of a space. Roughly rectangular, one long wall is covered by a window with wooden blinds while the other wall opens to a kitchen and hallway to the rest of the house. Of the two short walls, one is the front door while the other is taken by a large OLED screen and the audio gear. There’s very limited “wall space” for wall treatments (just a bit near the speakers and on the sides of the screen - perhaps 18” wide each). Frankly, even were I to look at something like bass traps (which I know is a debated — dare I say debunked — topic), I’d struggle for space. About the only place I have for room treatments is my ceiling… I have found options which I could squeeze in, but I debate whether the limited amount of space I could dedicate to treatments would be material enough to warrant the expense.

My thinking is that the DSP would be the better path to pursue, but I thought I’d ask the question….

 

[Paffi]

It's not an "or" but an "and". Ceiling is fine to tame the overall decay in the room.