Wiim Sub Pro

[john61ct]

With OP was wondering why but this is a specific use. Car camping?

Many contexts. Off grid home, #vanLife in a box trip, boats, throw a dance party out in the bush...

Or just to keep rocking when mains power goes down without having to fire up the genset

 

[Chrispy]

Many contexts. Off grid home, #vanLife in a box trip, boats, throw a dance party out in the bush...

Or just to keep rocking when mains power goes down without having to fire up the genset

I guess if you're going to have to have a bass module instead of a true sub, okay

 

[john61ct]

I guess if you're going to have to have a bass module instead of a true sub, okay

No idea what you mean? I plan to use both, only two midbass coupler units but many trueSubs.

To me, trueSubs are just units LP filtered below ~80-100Hz, can go very deep or not, most people run mono. BRuTeS (Bone Rattling fUll-size TruE Sub) likely go deeper, as opposed to smaller ~1cu ft units are to bridge from it/them up to the midbass reinforcement.

I likely run them all "active", as in the crossover wirks at line level but that dies not mean the power amp is AC grid powered, nor attached to the enclosure.

In that regard nothing different from the MBM, just likely a different driver, likely run in stereo and for sure bandpassed higher up to meet the trueSub below and main L/R above.

 

[john61ct]

When necessary I do have grid style power circuits run from SW inverters - both USA 120Vac 60Hz and EU/UK 230Vac 50Hz

but I really try to avoid that AMAP, especially for thirsty loads.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I guess if you're going to have to have a bass module instead of a true sub, okay

We’ve been here before. A traditional speaker has a tweeter for high frequencies and a woofer for mid and low frequency.

Hence a ‘subwoofer’ (literally ‘below woofer’) is a driver which produces frequencies below your woofer.

Any attempt to claim anything else is high redefinition.

 

[Bernard23]

We’ve been here before. A traditional speaker has a tweeter for high frequencies and a woofer for mid and low frequency.

Hence a ‘subwoofer’ (literally ‘below woofer’ is and driver which produces frequencies below your woofer.

Any attempt to claim anything else is high redefinition.

Agreed. In my system with Elac DBR62 then my aim is to remove the load from them and the amp from 80Hz and below. Maybe even 100Hz if the distortion is low on the sub. So <100Hz is technically a subwoofer in my system. Ergo, the Wiim sub pro is a subwoofer. The definition depends entirely on the speakers you're pairing it with.

What I'm trying to establish is whether I can connect and Roomfit 2 x subs wirelessly with an Ultra for a 2.2 system. Google says yes, Wiim forums not sure. If so then I'm willing to concede some ultra low bass (sub 30Hz) for the benefits of placement. I figure that 2 x 30Hz subs in the ideal room position will sound better than one large device that's flat to 20Hz in a compromised position.

 

[StephenMarkLay]

Agreed. In my system with Elac DBR62 then my aim is to remove the load from them and the amp from 80Hz and below. Maybe even 100Hz if the distortion is low on the sub. So <100Hz is technically a subwoofer in my system. Ergo, the Wiim sub pro is a subwoofer. The definition depends entirely on the speakers you're pairing it with.

What I'm trying to establish is whether I can connect and Roomfit 2 x subs wirelessly with an Ultra for a 2.2 system. Google says yes, Wiim forums not sure. If so then I'm willing to concede some ultra low bass (sub 30Hz) for the benefits of placement. I figure that 2 x 30Hz subs in the ideal room position will sound better than one large device that's flat to 20Hz in a compromised position.

If you want a great HT setup I think striving for 20hz makes sense. But with music, unless you have something very specific, like listening to the nuances of a pipe organ ( yes sarcasm) 25-30hz is not much of a concession.

If you want placement options (I don't think wiim will do wireless 2.2 but I do think they are looking at multiple subs so perhaps in a later update), RSL Speedwoofer 10s has a built in transceiver and I think its $50 for the transmitter. These are about the same as the WIMM sub but will for sure offer more of everything. I like my sub pro with my KEF LS50 but I use it as a desktop system. It did not do much for my Linton 85s but two 12" subs made a huge difference.

 

[Bernard23]

If you want a great HT setup I think striving for 20hz makes sense. But with music, unless you have something very specific, like listening to the nuances of a pipe organ ( yes sarcasm) 25-30hz is not much of a concession.

If you want placement options (I don't think wiim will do wireless 2.2 but I do think they are looking at multiple subs so perhaps in a later update), RSL Speedwoofer 10s has a built in transceiver and I think its $50 for the transmitter. These are about the same as the WIMM sub but will for sure offer more of everything. I like my sub pro with my KEF LS50 but I use it as a desktop system. It did not do much for my Linton 85s but two 12" subs made a huge difference.

That's really useful to know. I'm probably ruling the Wiim Sub out, the connectivity isn't as flexible as it might be, so their one big advantage for me has evaporated.

 

[john61ct]

Yes I agree that the "definition of subwoofer" varies by context and each individual's gear.

Hence I try to be more precise, since MY bookshelves work better for me crossed well over 180Hz still in directional bands, I want midbass reinforcement pretty narrowly bandpassed from there, to meet the next unit trueSub which to me, means below directionality frequencies, ostensibly ~80Hz°

Since that may not reach much below 40Hz at decent SPL, I may want one or more BRuTeS (Bone Rattling fUll-size TruE Sub).

By your definition, even the stereo MBM couplers are "subs". Which is fine, but to me these are three useful distinctions if nothing else as shortcut references when discussing finer aspects of bass management.

We’ve been here before. A traditional speaker has a tweeter for high frequencies and a woofer for mid and low frequency.

Hence a ‘subwoofer’ (literally ‘below woofer’) is a driver which produces frequencies below your woofer.

Any attempt to claim anything else is high redefinition.

 

[Oddball]

Yes I agree that the "definition of subwoofer" varies by context and each individual's gear.

Hence I try to be more precise, since MY bookshelves work better for me crossed well over 180Hz still in directional bands, I want midbass reinforcement pretty narrowly bandpassed from there, to meet the next unit trueSub which to me, means below directionality frequencies, ostensibly ~80Hz°

Since that may not reach much below 40Hz at decent SPL, I may want one or more BRuTeS (Bone Rattling fUll-size TruE Sub).

By your definition, even the stereo MBM couplers are "subs". Which is fine, but to me these are three useful distinctions if nothing else as shortcut references when discussing finer aspects of bass management.

I must say that I was deeply entrenched in the view that anything more than 80hz on the subs is going to now work well in - at least some rooms. I was rolling off the LFE at 100hz as did not want the rumble at 120hz.

Now, with ART, I don't even bother to phase in the big/medium towers seriously before 100hz. I finally understand why Perlisten specs their S class towers from 100hz above and is silent on what happens below.

With some new concepts around, some old concepts are being challenged.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Yes I agree that the "definition of subwoofer" varies by context and each individual's gear.

Hence I try to be more precise, since MY bookshelves work better for me crossed well over 180Hz still in directional bands, I want midbass reinforcement pretty narrowly bandpassed from there, to meet the next unit trueSub which to me, means below directionality frequencies, ostensibly ~80Hz°

Since that may not reach much below 40Hz at decent SPL, I may want one or more BRuTeS (Bone Rattling fUll-size TruE Sub).

By your definition, even the stereo MBM couplers are "subs". Which is fine, but to me these are three useful distinctions if nothing else as shortcut references when discussing finer aspects of bass management.

I still hold that the general definition of a subwoofer is a speaker which reproduces frequencies below that of a woofer in a typical loudspeaker which cannot reach down to 20Hz.

Yes, there'll then be distinctions, different types, discussiion as to whether a driver in a large floorstander which can go down to 20Hz is a subwoofer, etc., etc.

But you start with the general definition and work outwards from there.

My main point is that anyone criticising anyone else for using the term subwoofer when it's only a "... bass module instead of a true sub..." is guilty of high redifinition.

 

[Oddball]

I still hold that the general definition of a subwoofer is a speaker which reproduces frequencies below that of a woofer in a typical loudspeaker which cannot reach down to 20Hz.

Yes, there'll then be distinctions, different types, discussiion as to whether a driver in a large floorstander which can go down to 20Hz is a subwoofer, etc., etc.

There is absolutely no passive tower that would qualify as a subwoofer. Relatively big subwoofers struggle to push 100dB mark at 20hz, at "acceptable distorition". People are confused by extension of say -10 to -15 dB that some towers in lucky rooms could have at 20hz (more likely 30hz). The measure here would be SPL, and for some that don't listen loud, towers could work. But not really to be confused with subwoofers.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

There is absolutely no passive tower that would qualify as a subwoofer. Relatively big subwoofers struggle to push 100dB mark at 20hz, at "acceptable distorition". People are confused by extension of say -10 to -15 dB that some towers in lucky rooms could have at 20hz (more likely 30hz). The measure here would be SPL, and for some that don't listen loud, towers could work. But not really to be confused with subwoofers.

I think maybe you missed the nuance. If you have a large, three-way floorstander which goes down to 20Hz, the little driver is a tweeter, and the one handling the mids is a woofer. My question was whether you could legitimately call the large, bass driver a subwoofer (in the same way that you apply the terms tweeter and woofer to the other two deivers), not whether you'd call the whole speaker a subwoofer.

 

[john61ct]

large, three-way floorstander which goes down to 20Hz

Going down there at all is one thing. But what is the F3 point, where does the relative SPL drop off?

And how high does that driver get crossed over at its top?

 

[Oddball]

I think maybe you missed the nuance. If you have a large, three-way floorstander which goes down to 20Hz, the little driver is a tweeter, and the one handling the mids is a woofer. My question was whether you could legitimately call the large, bass driver a subwoofer (in the same way that you apply the terms tweeter and woofer to the other two deivers), not whether you'd call the whole speaker a subwoofer.

Not sure what is a nuance. The large bass driver in the biggest passive towers will not be a "subwoofer" despite the linguistics. I will remain a "woofer". It might suit some people to serve as a subwoofer if they listen to lower SPL and don't deploy aggressive bass curves.

Just take example of Perlisten. Their incredibly good St7 Towers are specd above 100hz. It does not matter what they extend to, as they can't really do a great job in the high end at high SPL - which is why Perlisten offers a wide range of extremely expensive but really good subs.

Some of the biggest towers in the world, like Arendal 1528, are also falling like a rock in low end - again with Arendal expecting the enthusiasts to choose their 1723 2V subs to go with them for the ultimate performance.

Golden Ear makes some active towers but it is questionable if they qualify as subwoofers. There are a number of active speakers that come with the additional bass unit (active) so yes they are true subwoofers.

And there are creatures like these ones - active/passive but still hitting hard (but maybe not so accurate).

SVTRS

Premier Modular Passive Full Range Speaker • high-gloss black finish • SV-831R (2); SV-1212NR (4); SVTR brace plate (4); SVTR Outrigger Set (2) • Full Range Tower configuration utilizing a custom integrated crossover (SOLD AS PAIR)

www.rbhsound.com

 

[Chrispy]

No idea what you mean? I plan to use both, only two midbass coupler units but many trueSubs.

To me, trueSubs are just units LP filtered below ~80-100Hz, can go very deep or not, most people run mono. BRuTeS (Bone Rattling fUll-size TruE Sub) likely go deeper, as opposed to smaller ~1cu ft units are to bridge from it/them up to the midbass reinforcement.

I likely run them all "active", as in the crossover wirks at line level but that dies not mean the power amp is AC grid powered, nor attached to the enclosure.

In that regard nothing different from the MBM, just likely a different driver, likely run in stereo and for sure bandpassed higher up to meet the trueSub below and main L/R above.

It's just a limited sub is all I meant. True subs to me extend to the lowest frequencies, at decent spl. For his purposes it sounds like the Wiim may be fine. A good sub should be able to cover above 80/100 hz if needed, too. What electronics are you using to get the various crossovers for MBMs vs subs?

 

[Chrispy]

We’ve been here before. A traditional speaker has a tweeter for high frequencies and a woofer for mid and low frequency.

Hence a ‘subwoofer’ (literally ‘below woofer’) is a driver which produces frequencies below your woofer.

Any attempt to claim anything else is high redefinition.

"We", kemo sabe? Yes, that's a limited definition, but not what would necessarily qualify as a true sub to me at least.

 

[john61ct]

"We", kemo sabe?

from Mad Magazine #38, published in March 1958 (41-42).

"TV Scenes We'd Like to See", written by E. Nelson Bridwell

Art drawn by Joe Orlando

Doug Gilford's MAD Cover Site — MAD #38

 

[john61ct]

It's just a limited sub is all I meant. True subs to me extend to the lowest frequencies, at decent spl.

What I call BRuTeS (Bone Rattling fUll-size TruE Sub).

> A good sub should be able to cover above 80/100 hz if needed, too

The ones that meet your topmost criterion above generally cannot do that, well anyway.

Even many with F3 at above 40Hz.

Hence my perceived "need" for three separate bass boxen.


> What electronics are you using to get the various crossovers for MBMs vs subs?

TBD but all at line level.

Starting with OG non DSP

Have so far invested in Outlaw ICBM-1 but only goes to 120Hz, I understand up to 200Hz will wirk better for my OG LS50s

passive even maybe for them, HPF only needed

Looking at Marchand

AudioControl "concert series" electronic units, varying slopes, with swappable analog xover networks, some are bandpass, go 3-4 way with rumble filters and a couple even some variable phase control besides reverse polarity.

dbx and even Behringer craptastic rack units

The delay / phase issues might force me to DSP, have a miniDSP 2x4 I picked up cheap for testing but no way I can pay for a 9+channels unit

So if DSP is indeed necessary I will go PC based and do the xovers there, get speaker EQ and room compensation as a bonus

Audiophile PC - focus on cases - truly silent, low profile, rack mountable?

I am starting to collect the parts to assemble a new-to-me "open DSP" PC, also to sometimes maybe be used as a source - streamer transport / network player, and likely more often as HTPC to delay video if needed for lipsync issues. Primary focus is applying DSP - per-speaker compensation EQ...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Preamp for a single XLR measurement mic

I plan to use an Echo Audiofire 12 for REW and other measurement / filter design tools. It is I/O only, includes neither HPamp nor mic preamps. I have UMIK-2 but have decided to also get a calibrated XLR mic in order for both the signal output and the measurement precisely clock-sync'd by the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

As good value for PC I/O as Echo Audiofire 12 ?

Total interface noob here, please ELI5 I don't need to record or mix music in the creative sense, just looking to get multi-channel analog in and out of HTPC type hardware. Primary use case is DIY convolving, loudness contour, bass management, room correction PEQ. The Echo Audiofire 12 unit...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Chrispy]

What I call BRuTeS (Bone Rattling fUll-size TruE Sub).

> A good sub should be able to cover above 80/100 hz if needed, too

The ones that meet your topmost criterion above generally cannot do that, well anyway.

Even many with F3 at above 40Hz.

Hence my perceived "need" for three separate bass boxen.


> What electronics are you using to get the various crossovers for MBMs vs subs?

TBD but all at line level.

Starting with OG non DSP

Have so far invested in Outlaw ICBM-1 but only goes to 120Hz, I understand up to 200Hz will wirk better for my OG LS50s

passive even maybe for them, HPF only needed

Looking at Marchand

AudioControl "concert series" electronic units, varying slopes, with swappable analog xover networks, some are bandpass, go 3-4 way with rumble filters and a couple even some variable phase control besides reverse polarity.

dbx and even Behringer craptastic rack units

The delay / phase issues might force me to DSP, have a miniDSP 2x4 I picked up cheap for testing but no way I can pay for a 9+channels unit

So if DSP is indeed necessary I will go PC based and do the xovers there, get speaker EQ and room compensation as a bonus

Audiophile PC - focus on cases - truly silent, low profile, rack mountable?

I am starting to collect the parts to assemble a new-to-me "open DSP" PC, also to sometimes maybe be used as a source - streamer transport / network player, and likely more often as HTPC to delay video if needed for lipsync issues. Primary focus is applying DSP - per-speaker compensation EQ...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Preamp for a single XLR measurement mic

I plan to use an Echo Audiofire 12 for REW and other measurement / filter design tools. It is I/O only, includes neither HPamp nor mic preamps. I have UMIK-2 but have decided to also get a calibrated XLR mic in order for both the signal output and the measurement precisely clock-sync'd by the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

As good value for PC I/O as Echo Audiofire 12 ?

Total interface noob here, please ELI5 I don't need to record or mix music in the creative sense, just looking to get multi-channel analog in and out of HTPC type hardware. Primary use case is DIY convolving, loudness contour, bass management, room correction PEQ. The Echo Audiofire 12 unit...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I think there are quite a few subs than can do well above 80-100hz. Good luck with the gear you have in mind.