Wiim Sub Pro

[staticV3]

@Mort @jeo12

Source: https://www.wiimhome.com/wiim-sub-pro

It reads like two separate WiiM streamers would be required, though it's not entirely clear.

 

[jeo12]

Thank you! To me, this sounds like stereo subs are supported by certain streamers/amps, but it's unclear which. Presumably, each sub would be driven by either L or R channel? What I'd find a killer feature is to be able to drive two or more subs with a mono LFE signal and EQ them individually, without wires or other extra hardware.

Does anybody know if the wireless sub-connection works in all playback modes (incl. Roon)? ChatGPT cautioned me this might not work...

 

[staticV3]

Thank you! To me, this sounds like stereo subs are supported by certain streamers/amps, but it's unclear which. Presumably, each sub would be driven by either L or R channel? What I'd find a killer feature is to be able to drive two or more subs with a mono LFE signal and EQ them individually, without wires or other extra hardware.

An automated MSO built into WiiM Home would be killer!

 

[Burnside]

Thank you! To me, this sounds like stereo subs are supported by certain streamers/amps, but it's unclear which. Presumably, each sub would be driven by either L or R channel? What I'd find a killer feature is to be able to drive two or more subs with a mono LFE signal and EQ them individually, without wires or other extra hardware.

Does anybody know if the wireless sub-connection works in all playback modes (incl. Roon)? ChatGPT cautioned me this might not work...

I largely ignore ChatGPT answers, and rely on searches like “WiiM faq sub pro” which often leads you directly to the WiiM support pages viz. https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support/solutions/articles/72000645555-how-to-set-up-your-wiim-sub-pro

At the bottom of that page, you’ll see Roon isn’t currently supported but the recently updated Ultra roadmap suggests it’s being worked on: https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support/solutions/articles/72000635113-wiim-ultra-roadmap

 

[john61ct]

All current WiiM devices, with the exception of the original WiiM Mini, are certified as "Roon Ready"

Roon Ready

faq.wiimhome.com

 

[kyuu]

All current WiiM devices, with the exception of the original WiiM Mini, are certified as "Roon Ready"

Roon Ready

faq.wiimhome.com

If you read the previously linked support page, you will see that the Sub Pro does not currently support Roon streams when used wirelessly.

 

[Mort]

If you read the previously linked support page, you will see that the Sub Pro does not currently support Roon streams when used wirelessly.

It is on the roadmap fyi

 

[john61ct]

my apologies, got wires crossed

 

[keiron99]

Has anyone bought one of these and care to report on it?

 

[Billy Budapest]

Hmmm, hadn't seen this before since I don't pay close attention to the Wiim community (despite somehow having ended up with 5 Wiim devices). $449 is slightly higher than my 'no brainer' threshold given that I have lots of parts available to DIY a solution, but I'm likely to cave as I have an almost perfect application for this paired with a Wiim Amp Pro in the living room as it will tuck relatively inconspicuously under the end table.

I had a $130 Amazon gift card and $210 of AMEX points to spend, so at $110 this fit my “no brainer” threshold. I needed some bass reinforcement for my sunroom system which consists of 20 year old Arcam equipment, 20 year old B&W DM600 s3 bookshelf speakers, and a WiiM Pro Plus streamer. I had assembled it earlier this year all as a UK-late-model-vintage system for next to nothing. Had a theme going, what can I say?

 

[Miguelón]

See Erin's CTA-2010 data of the Monoprice Monolith 8" THX:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/subwoofer-comparison.20494/

Erin's Audio Corner CEA-2010 Master Test List

docs.google.com

That's about the limit of what you should expect from the WiiM Sub.

Huge list...

I'm considering to buy one of those to a pair of Genelec G Two.

The 7050 sub from Genelec peaks at 103 dB SPL having a single 8 inch cone, ported enclosure, 24 Hz (-6 dB).

Well, It is a 130 watts class D amp, so Guess the WiiM can potentially go louder…

Am I correct?

 

[staticV3]

Huge list...

I'm considering to buy one of those to a pair of Genelec G Two.

The 7050 sub from Genelec peaks at 103 dB SPL having a single 8 inch cone, ported enclosure, 24 Hz (-6 dB).

Well, It is a 130 watts class D amp, so Guess the WiiM can potentially go louder…

Am I correct?

You're playing fast and loose with units and numbers.

The 7050C has a "Maximum short term sine wave SPL output averaged from 30 to 85 Hz, measured in half space at 1 meter" of ≥103 dB.

Nobody else measures their Sub output like that, so this metric is useless for comparison outside of Genelec's product range.

We don't know its maximum clean (=CTA-2010) output at any given frequency. For that we'd need 3rd party testing.

 

[Miguelón]

You're playing fast and loose with units and numbers.

The 7050C has a "Maximum short term sine wave SPL output averaged from 30 to 85 Hz, measured in half space at 1 meter" of ≥103 dB.

Nobody else measures their Sub output like that, so this metric is useless for comparison outside of Genelec's product range.

We don't know its maximum clean (=CTA-2010) output at any given frequency. For that we'd need 3rd party testing.

Thanks, I missed out the half space and the average...

I will consult the WiiM Forums to look if someone has made more standard ones.

It seems that Genelec 7050 is designed to be listened at shortest distances, otherwise is not logic to put 130 watts in a sub intended to cover 30 Hz or lower.

Any opinion about the WiiM Sub Pro by your part? I have a WiiM Pro in the office where I use the G Two.

 

[john61ct]

No sub that small digs deep at SPL, at best "bass reinforcement"

 

[Miguelón]

No sub that small digs deep at SPL, at best "bass reinforcement"

Which is a good frequency for lows if one pretend to just listen to music? Not films / Home cinema...

I was pianist, many years ago: by memory 27.5 Hz is the lowest note on a regular grand piano, and I can only think about church organs that can rise the 20 Hz or below.

But I don't remember any work that uses the 27.5 Hz A0 key from the piano, surely It exists...

Will a 20 Hz sub be more engaging than a 30 Hz one, to my purpose?

 

[kyuu]

Will a 20 Hz sub be more engaging than a 30 Hz one, to my purpose?

Maybe, it's impossible to say really. It's really a question of priorities: if you want to get under 20Hz in any meaningful manner, you have to be prepared to spend a bit more and go for a bigger sub. If you're okay to forgo that last 10Hz of extension, you can get by with smaller, cheaper subs. The problem is when people want to get down to 20Hz but don't want a big sub and they end up with compromise solutions that can technically put down on their spec sheets that they get down to 20Hz but they do so with so little usable SPL that it's basically meaningless while simultaneously compromising headroom at 30Hz and above where most of the actual content is.

My personal take is: if you have the budget, in terms of dollars and space, get a sub that can really dig down low with authority. If you have space, budgetary, and/or aesthetic considerations that preclude that, accept that you have to give up some extension and focus on getting a good sub that can do 30Hz and up well.

 

[john61ct]

Bass cello, big drums and most of all deep pipe organ notes

The harmonic resonances are FELT in the body, even if "infra" sonic.

What YOU can actually "hear" of course varies

The lower you go, vastly more power/current needed to push that volume of air.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Bass cello, big drums and most of all deep pipe organ notes

The harmonic resonances are FELT in the body, even if "infra" sonic.

What YOU can actually "hear" of course varies

The lower you go, vastly more power/current needed to push that volume of air.

Right, can we clear this up.

If a you hit a note on any instrument at 20Hz, then it’ll play 20Hz, then you’ll get harmonics going below that. That’s in real life. But these then need to be recorded to be played back. If your recording system only goes down to 20Hz, it won’t record those harmonics, and this is a non-issue.

Explain what I’ve missed (always happy to hear when I do that - every day is a school day).

 

[kyuu]

Right, can we clear this up.

If a you hit a note on any instrument at 20Hz, then it’ll play 20Hz, then you’ll get harmonics going below that.

Harmonics below the note?

Also it's not necessarily true that an instrument playing a 20Hz "note" will have a dominant fundamental. For example, most any piano, especially if it's not a full size concert grand, will have the harmonics dominant for much of the lowest bass register as the strings are not long enough. Instead they are thickened to get the note lower but this results in a lot of harmonics, particularly of note on smaller grands and uprights where the bass notes can often sound pretty muddy due to this. Physics is not just a bitch for speakers, it applies just as well to instruments.

 

[Miguelón]

Harmonics below the note?

Also it's not necessarily true that an instrument playing a 20Hz "note" will have a dominant fundamental. For example, most any piano, especially if it's not a full size concert grand, will have the harmonics dominant for much of the lowest bass register as the strings are not long enough. Instead they are thickened to get the note lower but this results in a lot of harmonics, particularly of note on smaller grands and uprights where the bass notes can often sound pretty muddy due to this. Physics is not just a bitch for speakers, it applies just as well to instruments.

That’s true, only grand have fundamentals at 27.5 stronger than their harmonics.

Never heard about harmonics below the fundamental, in any theory.

Personally I think I’m ok with a sub that can go to 30 Hz at -3 dB, in the case of WiiM it seems it can’t.

I found various measurements in YouTube with REW, it easily handles 40-50 Hz but it drops down all the 30-40 Hz. Measurements got 25 Hz at 70 dB @1 m whereas 45 Hz was reaching 95 dB.

I think is interesting for complementing little bookshelf speakers or reinforcing that 40 Hz in jazz (as I remember lowest bass guitar was at 41 Hz) with 6.5 inch monitors.

Viewing FQ curve, and similar size (but not price), the SVS 3000 micro covers with authority the 30 - 40 Hz as is more powerful and has two opposite 8 inch cones.