Wiim Roomfit questions, please help

[tkdj123]

Please help

I have a Wiim Amp, Polk ES20 speakers and an RSL speedwoofer 10e. My room is about 13x10 (attatched pic)

I have tried running roomfit but so far I am unsatisfied with the results (attatched pic).

Below is a pic of my roomfit settings

Here is a pic of the roomtfit curve

Please help me. I am completely new to this. Tell me the simple steps in simple terms to optimize this.

Thanks!

 

[Ruediger]

Some suggestions.

Calculate the Schroeder frequency for your room and run RoomFit from lowest (not 30) up to it.

I would start with a curve like Harman and in the end create profiles for all 3 curves, so you can check them out. Non-boost mode.

Your initial graph doesn't reveal much but bass problems. If the graph reaches -12 so max. it could be too loud. Try setting the amp at a casual room level. And the subwoofer around 30% of it's range. Or something louder and sub at 50%. You should hear it being mixed in at a normal level and not being overly present.

Do the speaker / sub delay timing in the app before you do any RoomFit.

Run some measurements and see how that goes.

This whole thing + possibly REW measurement profits from a good, calibrated mic. Consider getting a Umik-1. Can be used when the sticker on it is present.

But it should work out with your phone OK for a start. Obviously a huge need to correct is seen.

 

[DanielT]

I agree about the UMIK; it’s a genuine calibrated measurement microphone that—unlike the built-in microphones in tablets or mobile phones—can accurately measure low frequencies.
The UMIK-1 is plug-and-play with WiiM's RoomFit. Just make sure you can download the calibration file to your mobile or tablet; then, you simply upload it to the WiiM.
Get a sufficiently long cable for the microphone. Buy a microphone stand if you feel like it.

Here is why the built-in microphones in tablets and phones are terrible at measuring low frequencies:

The Biggest Obstacle: Software and DSP
Even if the physical microphone picks up low bass, the mobile operating system and its internal Digital Signal Processors (DSP) purposefully alter the audio path. [1, 2]

• • High-Pass Filters: By default, mobile devices apply an aggressive high-pass filter that rolls off or completely mutes frequencies below 80 Hz to 100 Hz. This is intentionally designed to strip out wind noise, handling vibrations, and background HVAC rumble to make human speech clearer. [1, 2, 3]
  • Auto-Gain and Noise Cancellation: Built-in algorithms dynamically compress audio and filter out continuous low-frequency hums, which corrupts any attempt at raw acoustic testing or scientific measurement. [1, 2]

If you use RoomFit in "boost mode," remember to set the volume appropriately—adjusting the level relative to the amount of boost—to avoid digital clipping. Here are instructions on that:

Guide for Managing Volume and Headroom on the WiiM Mini (Measurements)

This is a small excursion into volume and EQ headroom on the WiiM Mini (and by extension, likely other WiiM products). WiiM Mini Firmware: 4.6.805929 WiiM Home Version: 3.5.1 For all tests, I used a -1dBFS Measurement Sweep, exported from REW and played back directly via the WiiM Home App...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Try both the "flat" and "Harman" room curves in RoomFit to see which you prefer.

 

[Emulator II]

If you use RoomFit in "boost mode," remember to set the volume appropriately—adjusting the level relative to the amount of boost—to avoid digital clipping.

Since the last update this is no longer needed. Just make a sure that "Auto Headroom" is activated:

 

[DanielT]

Your subwoofer has an adjustable phase control:

How is it set right now? Try different phase settings and then take measurements. Combine that with experimenting with different subwoofer placements—that is, if you have the option to position it in different ways. That, plus different crossover frequencies via the WiiM’s bass management? I’m not sure exactly how that works (I "only" have a WiiM Mini), but the feature is there in the WiiM amp, at least. Is it possible to set different time delays via the WiiM’s bass management? Does it involve high-pass and low-pass filters (on the sub out from the WiiM)?

In any case, you’ve got a bit of tinkering to do, so to speak.

Edit:
By the way, your sub has a 12 dB low pass, Wiim Bassmanagement a 24 dB (If I understood the whole thing correctly). So..
To align phase when cascading a 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley crossover with a subwoofer's built-in 12 dB (2nd-order) low-pass filter, you must measure the combined acoustic response and apply delay or polarity adjustments using measurement software.
1. Understand the Combined Filter Topology

• • Cascaded Filtering: Running a signal through a 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley low-pass filter (\(24\text{ dB/octave}\)) and then through the subwoofer's internal 12 dB low-pass filter (\(12\text{ dB/octave}\)) results in a combined low-pass slope of 6th-order (\(36\text{ dB/octave}\)).
  • Phase Complexity: This mismatch between a 4th-order high-pass on the main speakers and a 6th-order effective low-pass on the subwoofer creates an asymmetric phase response and unequal acoustic slopes at the crossover point.

2. Measure Using Acustic Software

• • Use a Measurement Mic: Place a measurement microphone (like a UMIK-1) at the primary listening position.

(Gemini AI)
Please note that I might be mistaken about how WiiM's bass management works, as well as its settings and configuration options, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[DanielT]

Since the last update this is no longer needed. Just make a sure that "Auto Headroom" is activated:

View attachment 561879

Thanks for the information! I didn't know that. That was a nice update.

 

[Ruediger]

It's properly done but I'd recommend not producing situations for it to intervene all the time.

He used RoomFit in boost mode and only got reductions so far. In the end, with good preparation, maybe look at profiles in both modes.

 

[DanielT]

Aha, I see now. You can actually bypass the subwoofer's built-in low-pass filter. Well, you could certainly do that and just use the WiiM's bass management instead.

But if you feel like experimenting, you could play around with it—trying the sub's low-pass filter engaged versus bypassed, taking measurements, and finding the appropriate phase settings for each scenario.

 

[phoberus]

This whole thing + possibly REW measurement profits from a good, calibrated mic. Consider getting a Umik-1. Can be used when the sticker on it is present.

Is there a possibility to load REW measurements in Wiim Roomfit or can we only use a Umik to correct with the 10-band PEQ?

 

[Ruediger]

Is there a possibility to load REW measurements in Wiim Roomfit or can we only use a Umik to correct with the 10-band PEQ?

RoomFit works with the mic and so does REW. You can do both and I think you'll find that they are rather close in results. With RoomFit being somewhat strict in it's attempt to match the curve.

REW filter results can be typed into a RoomFit profile. Just set up REW with the proper PEQ features and have it produce matching filter sets for the WiiM.

 

[john61ct]

Is Roomfit also "plug and play" with UMIK-2 ?

 

[kemmler3D]

I would 100% recommend getting a Umik and using the 'experimental' MMM mode with Roomfit. Recently did this on my own system and I haven't measured but the results are pretty good to my ear.

I'd also suggest lowering the maximum cut and maximum Q values. Q = 10 is a pretty sharp filter and this can lead to funky results if the measurement isn't quite dead on.

 

[DanielT]

Is Roomfit also "plug and play" with UMIK-2 ?

Yes.

(Gemini AI)

 

[phoberus]

Oh man. I've been using Wiim for years and didn't know I could connect my Umik to my smartphone and even load the calibration file. Awesome. I'm going to try out the MMM mode. Thanks OP for making this thread and all the people for the answers

 

[DanielT]

I would 100% recommend getting a Umik and using the 'experimental' MMM mode with Roomfit.

I tried setting up MMM measurements, but for some reason—on my Samsung tablet—I couldn't download or, rather, manually add "_90deg.txt" to get the UMIK 90-degree calibration file working with the WiiM. Downloading the on-axis calibration file was no problem at all. Strange.
Maybe I need to delete the current file and reload a new one?

 

[DanielT]

Since the last update this is no longer needed. Just make a sure that "Auto Headroom" is activated:

View attachment 561879

The Auto Headroom function works, but with this caveat that @harkpabst mentioned in another thread—something worth keeping in mind:

Auto Headroom works very well, with one notable limitation: If RoomFit and manual EQ (either PEQ or GEQ) are used simultaneously, only one one of them is considered by Auto Headroom, the one which requires more attenuation.

If RoomFit and your manual EQ happen to assign positive gain filters to the same same frequency range (and the volume setting is close to maximum and the volume limit is not set) this can result in digital clipping.

If you use only RoomFit or only manual EQ or if you use RoomFit in Non-Boost Mode or if you never set the volume close to maximum this is not an issue. I'm pretty sure that WiiM are already working on improving the Auto Headroom algorithm. I think some developer cut a corner here without taking note of the potential issue.

#29:

Guide for Managing Volume and Headroom on the WiiM Mini (Measurements)

I have sets of REW created filters entered there individually. How do I do that? Does the non-boost switch take care of it post editing? No, it doesn't. When transfering filters from REW into the WiiM Home App you're not really using the RoomFit algorithm at all. REW is fully responsible for...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[harkpabst]

He used RoomFit in boost mode and only got reductions so far.

There's actually no indication of the OP using boost mode. Max. Gain can be positive even in non-boost mode.

@kemmler3D, personally I think that +10 dB is pretty much OK in most situations. It's the absolute maximum boost RoomFit could apply, but usually it simply won't, especially when using the Moving Microphone Method, which I also recommend. If you end up with one of the peak filters at or close to +10 dB this is probably a sound indicator for some other problem.

Is there a possibility to load REW measurements in Wiim Roomfit ...

Not yet. WiiM have announced to be working on it but you never know in which order they release new features. This might come in 2 years or next week or even never. RoomFit is intended to make any external measuring or calibration software redundant, in the first place. Having said that, you can store multiple RoomFit profiles and edit each of them manually after they have been created. This way you could manually enter correction values calculated by e.g. REW, but it's not necessary to do that. Using a quality mic like the UMIK-1 or UMIK-2 with RoomFit (importing the appropriate calibration files) has much more influence on the result than the RoomFit vs. REW algorithm. 10 bands of PEQ per channel is not really limited by my definition.

Maybe I need to delete the current file and reload a new one?

No, that shouldn't be necessary. I have successfully imported the calibration files for multiple mics, including the 90° calibration. The mic must be connected when importing the cal file. Also, there has been an issue at one point in time with loading calibration files from network resources. This should have been fixed, but for the sake of testing make sure to copy the file to your local device first.

@tkdj123, there's been a lot of good advice in this thread, in particular bypassing the crossover built into your sub and using WiiM's bass management, including the sync tool. This is mandatory in my book. But before you try out any further suggestions ...

I have tried running roomfit but so far I am unsatisfied with the results (attatched pic).

... what exactly are you unsatisfied with?

If you tell us what you actually think is missing and post the full RoomFit settings (not just the basics from the above screenshot) we'll have a much clearer picture of what might be going wrong.

Please note that the correction curve you posted tells pretty much nothing about if there is an issue or not. You need to take screenshots of the actual measurement, showing the in-room raw data and the corrected frequency response. We can work our way from there. Changing the target curve from Auto to B&K or Harmann might help or it might just not. We also need the subwoofer setup settings from the WiiM Home app.

But as I said, the most important hint is what does not sound right for you in this setup.

 

[tkdj123]

Some suggestions.

Calculate the Schroeder frequency for your room and run RoomFit from lowest (not 30) up to it.

I would start with a curve like Harman and in the end create profiles for all 3 curves, so you can check them out. Non-boost mode.

Your initial graph doesn't reveal much but bass problems. If the graph reaches -12 so max. it could be too loud. Try setting the amp at a casual room level. And the subwoofer around 30% of it's range. Or something louder and sub at 50%. You should hear it being mixed in at a normal level and not being overly present.

Do the speaker / sub delay timing in the app before you do any RoomFit.

Run some measurements and see how that goes.

This whole thing + possibly REW measurement profits from a good, calibrated mic. Consider getting a Umik-1. Can be used when the sticker on it is present.

But it should work out with your phone OK for a start. Obviously a huge need to correct is seen.

Thanks I've followed your advice. The new graph is posted below, using the Harman curve on first pic and flat curve on second. It already is in non boost mode.

Sounds a little better but I still feel unsatisfied, and not sure if this is good.

Here are the new settings for both.

 

[tkdj123]

There's actually no indication of the OP using boost mode. Max. Gain can be positive even in non-boost mode.

@kemmler3D, personally I think that +10 dB is pretty much OK in most situations. It's the absolute maximum boost RoomFit could apply, but usually it simply won't, especially when using the Moving Microphone Method, which I also recommend. If you end up with one of the peak filters at or close to +10 dB this is probably a sound indicator for some other problem.


Not yet. WiiM have announced to be working on it but you never know in which order they release new features. This might come in 2 years or next week or even never. RoomFit is intended to make any external measuring or calibration software redundant, in the first place. Having said that, you can store multiple RoomFit profiles and edit each of them manually after they have been created. This way you could manually enter correction values calculated by e.g. REW, but it's not necessary to do that. Using a quality mic like the UMIK-1 or UMIK-2 with RoomFit (importing the appropriate calibration files) has much more influence on the result than the RoomFit vs. REW algorithm. 10 bands of PEQ per channel is not really limited by my definition.


No, that shouldn't be necessary. I have successfully imported the calibration files for multiple mics, including the 90° calibration. The mic must be connected when importing the cal file. Also, there has been an issue at one point in time with loading calibration files from network resources. This should have been fixed, but for the sake of testing make sure to copy the file to your local device first.

@tkdj123, there's been a lot of good advice in this thread, in particular bypassing the crossover built into your sub and using WiiM's bass management, including the sync tool. This is mandatory in my book. But before you try out any further suggestions ...

... what exactly are you unsatisfied with?

If you tell us what you actually think is missing and post the full RoomFit settings (not just the basics from the above screenshot) we'll have a much clearer picture of what might be going wrong.

Please note that the correction curve you posted tells pretty much nothing about if there is an issue or not. You need to take screenshots of the actual measurement, showing the in-room raw data and the corrected frequency response. We can work our way from there. Changing the target curve from Auto to B&K or Harmann might help or it might just not. We also need the subwoofer setup settings from the WiiM Home app.

But as I said, the most important hint is what does not sound right for you in this setup.

You are right, I never had bass boost.

Ive changed some of the parameters on wiim, look at the my latest reply to one of the comments please. Still unsatisfied.

I would consider getting the UMK-1 but would like to make sure I am doing everything correctly with the phone first and exhaust that option.

 

[Petrushka]

I love my Wiim Amp, but I didn’t find roomfit to be helpful.

I don’t have a calibrated mic, and roomfit doesn’t seem to adapt to my iPhone.

The dB app seems to understand my phone. I wound up with a very slight correction, using dB and pink noise.

There are many problem with amateur room correction, and I see no easy solution.