Wiim Pro/Ultra - am I missing anything obvious?

[tmtomh]

Wiim Ultra also has squeezelite/slimproto built in, acts as a client to a Lyrion Music Server instance serving everything from a filestore over the network.

Highly recommended once you (want to) get away from the simplicity of USB Storage direct attached to Wiim.

Thanks! Yes, I've read about that. Many years ago my streamer was an actual Logitech Squeezebox!

 

[john61ct]

There are many reasons that tech has continued to be available in its myriad evolving implementations over the decades.

 

[jhaider]

Oh, good catch - thanks!

That's an issue because it makes the Ultra useless as a wireless, lossless streamer from an Apple device.

Yep.

 

[morillon]

If AirPlay is important to you, you can use a WiiM Pro Plus... it is the Ultra that lacks it.

 

[tmtomh]

Okay everyone - here's what might be a colossally dumb question.

I just got a Wiim Ultra and am just finishing initial setup. It works with my Genelec 8351b's, and it's currently scanning the contents of a USB stick I inserted into it.

I thought I had thought of everything during my research, but I'm just now realizing that I completely forgot one huge aspect: I keep the Genelec GLM interface module (or whatever it's called) permanently connected to the speakers so I can turn them on and off and adjust the volume with the little Genelec remote control.

My plan with the Wiim Ultra has been to retire my long in the tooth 2012 Mac mini computer music server - but now I realize that the mini is what the Genelec GLM module is connected to!

I have read online that once the GLM settings have been stored to the speakers, you can remove the computer from the equation as follows:

1. Disconnect the GLM box from the computer and power it directly via a USB AC plug (like for a phone charger)
2. Flip the STORED DIP switch on the back of the monitors from OFF to ON so they will use the stored settings.

With this arrangement you can only use a single GLM Preset (the one stored in the speakers), but I only use one preset so losing that functionality is not important to me.

HOWEVER, this Genelec support page seems to say something different: It says the speakers will use their stored settings once you DISCONNECT the GLM network box from them. It says that with the box connected to them, the speakers will use whatever settings are current in the GLM software at the time. But what it doesn't make clear is whether the GLM network adapter box stores those settings, or whether it's referring to the settings in the GLM software on the computer the GLM box is attached to. I would presume it can't be the computer, because I never have the GLM software actually running on my computer when I use my speakers (I only fire up the GLM software on my computer on the rare occasions I want to run a new room calibration or change some other setting.

I'm curious if anyone here who has Genelecs uses the GLM network box NOT attached to a computer, simply to enable use of the Genelec remote control. If so, I'd love to hear your experiences.

Thanks!

 

[john61ct]

You will get more / better answers by posting to a new thread, with the relevant keywords in the title.

Or at least a pre-existing thread on a Genelec topic

 

[tmtomh]

An update: I purchased a Wiim Ultra and a 512GB ultra-compact USB stick and have gotten everything up and running with my Genelec 8351b's, and so far I'm quite pleased!

The learning curve was mild and very quick, and through your responses here and in another thread (and some online searching) I realized I could make the setup even simpler and more versatile than I originally thought:

I didn't think I'd want or be able to use the Genelecs in pure standalone mode: I thought I'd keep the Genelec Network Adapter in the system so I could keep using the wireless Genelec remote control to turn them on and off and to control the volume. But unlike the USB output from the old Mac mini that was my computer-based music source/streamer, the Ultra's digital coax output properly goes to sleep after a period of inactivity, which allows the Genelecs' ISS (intelligent signal sensing) to work properly - in other words, with the Wiim replacing the Mac as the music source, I no longer need the Genelec remote control for power on/off of the monitors because they now go to sleep (and wake up) on their own.

So the only Genelec remote function left was volume control - but of course I can do that with the Wiim. So I just changed my Genelec GLM settings to have the speakers start up at a higher volume, to give me enough headroom to be able to use the Wiim volume control as an attenuator and still be able to play anything as loud as I'd ever want.

The result is that I've been able to remove not only the Mac mini from the setup, but also the Genelec Network Adapter and wireless remote. I just open the Wiim Home app on my phone, select the Ultra, it wakes up, and in turn that wakes up the Genelecs, and I press Play and that's it. My iPhone's volume up/down buttons even control the volume when the Wiim Home app is active so I've got proper tactile volume control and don't have to rely on a tiny touch-slider on the phone screen.

As a bonus, I've also discovered that the old Mac mini can be of great use to this new setup in multiple ways, even though it's no longer in the main equipment chain.

1. I moved it into my networking closet (which is right next to my listening room), and I've made its entire music library an SMB share the Ultra can use.

2. I also learned about a piece of free software called Airconnect that can be installed on almost any computer platform and OS and that acts as a bridge or relay to enable the Ultra to appear as an Airplay device to iPhones and other Apple devices. So I installed Airconnect on the mini, and now the Ultra appears as an Airplay device on my local network, which eliminates the need for me to buy a separate Airplay receiver just for the rare occasion when a guest might want to stream music to the Ultra from their iPhone and would want to use Apple Music rather than Spotify Connect or something else.

3. The mini still has my full GLM installation on it and is still less than 10 feet away from the monitors, so if I ever need to re-run room calibration or modify the monitors' GLM settings, it will take just a couple of minutes to plug the GLM Network Adapter back into the mini, run an ethernet cable from the Network Adapter to one of the monitors, and fire up GLM on the mini.

4. Finally, I haven't set it up yet, but I'm planning to also install a DLNA server on the mini, as I've read that it can be a nicer solution than an SMB share (and it allows much more flexibility in managing the music library than the USB stick attached directly to the Ultra does). I used Plex as a home video-content server many years ago - maybe I'll brush up on that and try it as an audio DLNA server - my understanding is that it's still free if you're using it just as a local home-network server, yes? Are there other Mac-compatible DLNA servers that folks recommend?

Sorry for the length of this, but I know folks usually like it when someone who asks for help and info circles back to say how it all turned out.

Thanks agian for the help all!

 

[wilcaz]

2. I also learned about a piece of free software called Airconnect that can be installed on almost any computer platform and OS and that acts as a bridge or relay to enable the Ultra to appear as an Airplay device to iPhones and other Apple devices. So I installed Airconnect on the mini, and now the Ultra appears as an Airplay device on my local network, which eliminates the need for me to buy a separate Airplay receiver just for the rare occasion when a guest might to stream music to the Ultra from their iPhone and would want to use Apple Music rather than Spotify Connect or something else.

This is quite a cool solution, though I guess it doesn't solve the issue of AirPlay 2 restricting your streams to 256 kbps?

The fact that this is still a thing makes me wonder why Apple Music bothers to have lossless at all when wi-fi streaming is becoming the norm for home listening.

 

[tmtomh]

This is quite a cool solution, though I guess it doesn't solve the issue of AirPlay 2 restricting your streams to 256 kbps?

The fact that this is still a thing makes me wonder why Apple Music bothers to have lossless at all when wi-fi streaming is becoming the norm for home listening.

Yes, that's correct - and if wirelessly streaming from my iPhone's Apple Music app to the Wiim was my main or preferred way to do my day-to-day hi-fi listening, it would be a real problem.

In my case, though, I don't subscribe to Apple Music (or any other subscription service), and I long ago abandoned Airplay streaming because I felt there were better, more reliable methods that would allow for a virtually unlimited music-library size (I don't tend to buy the higher-end iPhones with massive storage capacity) and would also allow me to have other options for controlling playback if I didn't feel like using my phone (the Wiim has its own remote, and I also have an old iPad that makes for a nice, larger format Wiim Home app host). Along those lines, in the time since my last comment just above, I was already able to install Plex on the mini, scan my entire music library, sign in to my old Plex account, enable DLNA in Plex, and connect the Ultra to the Plex library using the Wiim Home app. The entire process took maybe 10 minutes. It's just so easy and seamless.

Also, for what it's worth, I've done a fair amount of searching about this Airplay 2 lossy issue and have come across multiple online discussions where people have tested what gets streamed in different scenarios (using Airplay receivers and/or downstream DACs that display exactly what the file format is that's being received and played). They appear to have discovered that if one selects an Airplay 2 receiving device using the system-wide selector, the Apple device will send the Airplay 2 stream in lossless format (albeit limited to CD redbook quality) as long as the wireless network signal is stable and fast. If, by contrast, one selects the Airplay 2 receiving device within an app (because with Airplay 2 you can select different receivers in different apps), then the stream will be lossy AAC. Perhaps an in-app selection defaults to lossy because the operating system needs to reserve some bandwidth in case you select a different Airplay receiver in a different app - multiple streams to multiple receivers.

If you want a Wiim Ultra, and you also want guaranteed lossless Airplay support, then you can get the Ultra and then spend another $100 or so for a Fiio SR11. This is a wireless streamer in its own right, but it is unusual in today's market because it is an Airplay 1 receiver and doesn't support Airplay 2. So you can connect the SR11 to the Ultra via TOSLINK (optical), and that solves the issue - Airplay 1 is less full-featured than Airplay 2, but it is always lossless (again limited to CD redbook) as long as the source files are lossless. The only small annoyance is that in that scenario you have to go into the Wiim Home app and select the optical digital input - then once you've done that, you or anyone else on your network can simply Airplay-stream music to the Fiio and the sound will come out of whatever amp and speakers the Wiim Ultra is connected to. And of course you could simply use the SR11 as your entire streamer - it's got to be one of, if not the only, current-production streamers that uses Airplay 1 and not Airplay 2.

In fact, I would happily get an SR11 to connect to my Ultra, except I have no need for it since I stream my music using the USB and network sources I described in my previous comment. And most of the guests who might end up in my listening room and want to stream something from their phone because I don't have it in my music library - for example, my grown kids, nieces, nephews, their spouses, and a few close friends - have iPhones but use Spotify or another non-Apple streaming service, all of which are natively supported by the Ultra.

So on the rare occasion someone might need to stream using Airplay, this Airplay 2 solution using the software bridge on my mini will do just fine - it might even end up being lossless, and even if it's 256k AAC it will still sound much better than Bluetooth. Not to mention that it's pretty darned difficult to reliably hear the difference between CD quality and 256k AAC.

Finally, with all that said, I do agree with you in principle: Airplay 2 should simply default to lossless, period, and dynamically scale back to lossy only if and when network conditions require it. I don't understand it either, except perhaps Apple's engineers and leadership are more conservative than other companies when it comes to wanting to reduce bandwidth to ensure there are no dropouts or buffering - or maybe Airplay is in some way technically inferior to other companies' streaming protocols and Apple feels they have no choice but to reduce typical bitrates - though I would doubt that since apparently Airplay 2 does default to lossless in some scenarios.

 

[john61ct]

Investigate Lyrion Music Server, dunno if it can run on a Mac but RPi for sure and most NAS.

Wiim has Slimproto client built in.

Far superior to UPnP / DLNA for tag based Library management, search/browsing playlists, hundreds of plugins over decades

Osmium looks like another whole level

 

[tmtomh]

Investigate Lyrion Music Server, dunno if it can run on a Mac but RPi for sure and most NAS.

Wiim has Slimproto client built in.

Far superior to UPnP / DLNA for tag based Library management, search/browsing playlists, hundreds of plugins over decades

Osmium looks like another whole level

I might be confused or misinformed, but I thought Lyrion Music Server either presents a pretty basic folder/file interface in the Wiim Home App, or else one has to use the web-based LMS interface to interact with a richer interface, yes?

 

[john61ct]

Yes. The three rôles can run on separate devices. Wiim is primarily the Renderer for both UPnP / DLNA and Slimproto, sending output to the amp/speakers.

It cannot act as LM Server.

Any screen device on the LAN can act as Control Point, and besides the myriad various compatible apps, any browser can serve up the web UI configured from the LMS.

My preference is Android, and the Material Skin UI

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

@tmtomh just plugged in a 8 gb usb stick in the Wiim ultra. 1 minute scanning, automatic indexing and playing now. Songs play instantly, no leading silence.

Song quality is lossless. Alac format probably.

Just to add - me too, and I have a WiiM Mini in another room which automatically has access to the same USB drive attached to my Ultra.

 

[john61ct]

gapless for FLAC?

 

[tmtomh]

gapless for FLAC?

Yes.