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WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements (Streamer)

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VintageFlanker

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And a general question: was there a measured device (streamer) that DOES NOT measure well for the WIFI - SPDIF out scenario ?!
We can imagine that some streamers may apply oversampling or having a bad hardware implementation. I don't have examples in mind, but I'm sure there is some.

I've used LMS and chromecast bridge plugin.
OK. Mine is done with Roon Endpoint.
I got this
1677147278509.png
Is that 44.1kHz ? I had even worst results at this sample rate before the update.
 

onlyoneme

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We can imagine that some streamers may apply oversampling or having a bad hardware implementation. I don't have examples in mind, but I'm sure there is some.
WiiM Mini was an example of such device few months ago when it had similar issues in non EQ mode as those seen in EQ mode.

OK. Mine is done with Roon Endpoint.
Roon affects audio stream?

Is that 44.1kHz ? I had even worst results at this sample rate before the update.

No, 96 kHz if I remember correctly.
 

onlyoneme

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Out of curiosity, does the Pro pass RME bit-perfect test when chromecasted from Roon?
 

BioMedTechGuy

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I’m not a Tidal user, but if you’re using Chromecast, you’re not using Tidal Connect - see this link where Connect capable devices appear separately from Chromecast capable devices in the Tidal app target device list ( your WiiM Pro may appear twice on such a list as it supports both). Also, when you use Tidal Connect, the WiiM app is just a window into what’s playing and isn’t controlling the stream, it’s just viewing.

Another great reply. I am not going to keep Tidal or any other subscription services since it seems like the difference between 44.1/16 and downsampling to 48/24 isn't worth the difference and Apple Music is "free" for me. That definitely cleared up my confusion though, so for the next couple of weeks I will just use Tidal Connect for Tidal service and not connect to the Chromecast feature.
 

darrylhopkins

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Thanks for the excellent analysis and review!

In lieu of using the Pro's ADC, is there a stand-alone consumer grade ADC anyone would recommend? I am using a $17 USD Hdiwousp ADC I got on Amazon but I am sure there is something relatively affordable (hopefully under $100 - $150) and better. But it seems like any ADC that I can find is geared toward pro audio and they are very expensive.

My use case is a multi-room WiiM Pro setup where I play vinyl into one WiiM Pro (via preamp with phone stage) and transmit it into a different WiiM Pro in another room.

I have this working now like this:

Turntable -> preamp (tape out) -> Hdiwousp ADC (optical out) -> WiiM Pro 1

steam to:

WiiM Pro 2 -> DAC -> Amplifier -> Speakers

Thank you!
 

Jmudrick

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Thanks for the excellent analysis and review!

In lieu of using the Pro's ADC, is there a stand-alone consumer grade ADC anyone would recommend? I am using a $17 USD Hdiwousp ADC I got on Amazon but I am sure there is something relatively affordable (hopefully under $100 - $150) and better. But it seems like any ADC that I can find is geared toward pro audio and they are very expensive.

My use case is a multi-room WiiM Pro setup where I play vinyl into one WiiM Pro (via preamp with phone stage) and transmit it into a different WiiM Pro in another room.

I have this working now like this:

Turntable -> preamp (tape out) -> Hdiwousp ADC (optical out) -> WiiM Pro 1

steam to:

WiiM Pro 2 -> DAC -> Amplifier -> Speakers

Thank you!
I'm looking at the ART USB Phono+ for my phono input.
 

DeepSpace57

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@VintageFlanker thanks for this review.

At Amir’s test to Wiim Mini, it shows much worse jitter performance than your pro review. Do you think WiimPro got improvement over the Mini at jitter? If you have the Mini, can do a jitter test to it?
 

JeremyFife

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Thanks for the excellent analysis and review!

In lieu of using the Pro's ADC, is there a stand-alone consumer grade ADC anyone would recommend? I am using a $17 USD Hdiwousp ADC I got on Amazon but I am sure there is something relatively affordable (hopefully under $100 - $150) and better. But it seems like any ADC that I can find is geared toward pro audio and they are very expensive.

My use case is a multi-room WiiM Pro setup where I play vinyl into one WiiM Pro (via preamp with phone stage) and transmit it into a different WiiM Pro in another room.

I have this working now like this:

Turntable -> preamp (tape out) -> Hdiwousp ADC (optical out) -> WiiM Pro 1

steam to:

WiiM Pro 2 -> DAC -> Amplifier -> Speakers

Thank you!
The E1DA Cosmos ADC gets favourable chat here, and is also what @VintageFlanker used I think : https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/e1da-cosmos-adc.27038/
 
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At Amir’s test to Wiim Mini, it shows much worse jitter performance than your pro review.
Hum, not really.
Considering this is a different instrumentation to begin with, I find both results to be somewhat comparable (with 6 and 18kHz sidebands)
Wiim Mini Measurement Jitter Analog Streamer Android Bluetooth.png

Jitter.png

We are probably dealing with a different clock implementation.
If you have the Mini, can do a jitter test to it?
I don't...

Out of curiosity, does the Pro pass RME bit-perfect test when chromecasted from Roon?
Interesting experiment. Will try that later.
 

darrylhopkins

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The ADC is even weaker, not to mention almost useless if you do not have a variable output, thanks to its 1Vrms rated max input. Among other scenarios, it will probably not degrade (even more) some phono signal, but what would be the point to use a turntable for ending in the digital domain that way? You vinyl guys tell me...
Vinyl guy here :)

The only reason I can see playing a turntable through a WiiM is if you are using the WiiM multi-room capability, to play a turntable into WiiM 1 and transmit the signal into WiiM 2 in a different room and play the record through a different system.

From what I understand, WiiM limits the sample rate in multi-room communication. Here is a quote from WiiM on their Amazon product page:
"When streaming [between 2 or more WiMs] in the multi-room group, the Hi-Res audio will be down sampled to 16-bit/48kHz to save the network bandwidth."
So even if you had an excellent ADC feeding into the WiiM, or if WiiM provided one inboard, that signal will be downsampled anyway in a multi-room configuration. That might be fine for casual listening but nobody should expect audiophile-level high fidelity with that kind of setup.

This is what I'm doing:

Turntable -> preamp (tape out) -> cheap ADC (optical out) -> WiiM 1

--> stream to -->

WiiM 2 in another room -> DAC -> amplifier -> Speakers

This is good enough for casual listening for any of my older or obscure records that aren't on streaming services anyway.
 

Joffy1780

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Thanks for the review!!
 

amadeuswus

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Vinyl guy here :)

The only reason I can see playing a turntable through a WiiM is if you are using the WiiM multi-room capability, to play a turntable into WiiM 1 and transmit the signal into WiiM 2 in a different room and play the record through a different system.

From what I understand, WiiM limits the sample rate in multi-room communication. Here is a quote from WiiM on their Amazon product page:

So even if you had an excellent ADC feeding into the WiiM, or if WiiM provided one inboard, that signal will be downsampled anyway in a multi-room configuration. That might be fine for casual listening but nobody should expect audiophile-level high fidelity with that kind of setup.
This certainly beats snaking a long interconnect from System 1 (turntable) to System 2!

I also use my WiiMs this way. Some (maybe many on this forum) may argue that 16/48 is more than good enough for digitizing the output of any vinyl setup .... but perhaps the ADC on the WiiM is audibly flawed for other reasons.
 
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VintageFlanker

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No, 96 kHz if I remember correctly.
Alright, got about -133dB at 96kHz.

Any graph of the Chromecast results after update? Seems like they just lowered it by 0.01dBFS...
Here you are, digital domain and ASRC only in action:
1677173488805.png
So they are different after all.;) Possibly different clocks.

Does anybody has pics of the WiiM Pro / WiiM Mini boards. I won't open mine, personally...
 

Ralph_Cramden

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Rja4000

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About that: the use of 34dB Gain with APU did in fact mask the second harmonic, as you suggested... But gave me run after run, the exact same DR calculation for both channels.
So that means, in that very case, that the second harmonic likely comes from the APU or ADC.

That doesn't impact DR, of course, since DR is equivalent to SNR...
 

Tangband

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WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements

View attachment 265790

Hey folks,

It is time for my first review of 2023... This one is about a complete objective analysis of the new WiiM Pro streamer. The aforementioned has been recently announced, back in December 2022, and I can see quite a strong hype around it since. That is really not surprising : the WiiM Pro comes with a lot of promises : It is claimed to be a "bitperfect" streamer transport, as was the WiiM Mini, now with the addition of cool features, like some S/PDIF pass-trough, Google Chromecast built-in, or (yet to be added) Multiroom and Roon Ready support.

At only 179€, it may sound like real bargain, especially when considering this could be the cheapest Roon Ready product ever. It is important to point out that the latter function is still not available by the time of this writing, even after the last (02/15/2023) update. The WiiM team publishes and constantly updates their roadmap on their website (which is rather uncommon from most manufacturers, and as such, welcomed), and the WiiM Pro appears to be currently under certification with Roon. Please note that Roon users may already use the WiiM Pro, when selecting it as a Roon Endpoint (through Chromecast).

These asides, it mostly has the same features, and presumably the same DAC and ADC chips, as the WiiM Mini, but with extended connectivity. By bringing such a complete unit to the market, there is no doubt that WiiM is aiming to compete against well-installed and popular products like the Bluesound Node, but at almost 1/4 of the price. Speaking of price, I bought myself this sample, tested today, on Amazon. By the way, availability is yet to be optimized, especially in EU.​

View attachment 265796

The WiiM Pro comes in a little and quite light plastic box. While I did not expect much in terms of overall build and finish, considering the features/price ratio, I am still kind of disappointed. The plastic feels a bit cheap on touch and I don't like the grey tone and texture. However, I appreciate the non-slip covering beneath it, that allows the unit to remain stable when plugging cables or using the touch buttons. As you can see, these are four, for either volume control up and down, play/pause and preset. I found them to be decently responsive, but pressing them doesn't display anything, unless the main LED that is blinking. Not sure if these will be used much, since the unit has to be entirely controlled by the App anyway.​

View attachment 265797

On the back, I am please to see a rich connectivity for such a small unit. We got both RCA inputs and outputs, two optical sockets (in and out), one coaxial output, a 12V trigger out, wired LAN input, and a mic, probably to be used for Alexa or any assistant (I do not use these). The power is done by the USB-C input (USB cable and 5V/2A adapter supplied). I also like to not have any antenna, when knowing the WiiM Pro also supports both Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. By the way, I encountered no range issues, cuts, nor skipping, when using these two wireless inputs. It supports up to 24bits / 192kHz with Wi-Fi, Optical and Coaxial or 96kHz for Chromecast. Bluetooth (5.1) is unfortunately limited to AAC and SBC codecs.​

This is how the WiiM Home App looks like :

View attachment 265809View attachment 265810

While this review is largely measurements-based, I used the WiiM Pro in my system during about a week, which is enough to share my two cents. I liked using it. It worked. That is it.

More seriously, yes, I have to admit I was a bit scared about getting something... more flawed. When you launch such a packed product at this price, then compromises are done, and software is usually the first victim... Well, not here ! The app is overall pleasantly stable and smooth. I like to see some cool additions like the bitrate to be displayed (like does UAPP). What I did not was the absence of "melting" artists and albums between different streaming services (as does Roon) when using the search button. I would also wish for a clearer way of displaying outputs and inputs settings. Apart from that nitpicking, WiiM Home does not compare unfavourably to other ecosystem on the market like BluOs, HEOS, MusicCast, StreamMagic and so on. In fact, I even preferred it over some of the aforementioned.

WiiM Home asides, the WiiM Pro (through Chromecast) worked flawlessly when controlled by either Tidal Connect, Qobuz Connect, and Roon.

These being said, it is now time for...

Measurements

Disclaimer: Measurements you are about to see are not intended to be as precise or extensive than what you get from a 30k€ AP. There is obviously both hardware and software limitations here, so not quite apples to apples comparison with Amir's testing. Still, this data is enough to have a pretty good idea if the gear is bad or not, stellar, broken, or sub-par...

- Instruments : E1DA Cosmos ADC (Grade B). Minimum phase filter. A newcomer is the RME ADI-2/4 PRO SE, which, 1) does a better job measuring unbalanced and low level signals, 2) may record and measure digital signals. E1DA Cosmos APU 60dB preamp is used for DR measurements. Output voltage is measured separately, using a DMM with a 0dBFS 1kHz tone.
- Software : REW V5.20.14, Multitone Loopback Analyzer 1.0.74 and RMAA 6.4.5 PRO,
- Method : 8 runs for each test, then I choose the closest to the average. Bandwidth and sampling rate to be specified for each test.
- WiiM Pro is running 4.8.507636 firmware. Output, input and setting to be specified below.​



DAC Performance
View attachment 265838
Let's start with the DAC performance. For this first battery of tests, I measured the WiiM pro through its RCA output, set at fixed level, 2Vrms. Digital input is S/PDIF optical.

WiiM Pro - DAC Summary
Tests
Results
Rating
Frequency Response 40Hz; 15kHz​
-0.02; +0.05dB​
Very Good
Noise Level (REW)​
-110.9dBA​
Very Good
Dynamic Range (REW)​
104.3dB​
Good
THD (REW)​
0.003427%​
Good
THD+Noise / SINAD (REW)​
-88.8dB​
Subpar
IMD SMPTE (REW)​
-77.5dB​
Subpar
Stereo crosstalk (RMAA)​
-109.8dB​
Very Good
IMD+Noise at 10 kHz (RMAA)​
0.0118%​
Average
Multitone 64 TD+N (Multitone)​
-82.9dB​
Average

Note: In addition to the supplied USB adapter, I also tested the WiiM Pro with two different USB chargers, from either Google Pixel or Xiaomi, then with a 5V/2.4A battery/power bank. So far, I measured absolutely no difference to speak about (at least not in the 20Hz-20kHz range). That being said, every measurement to come have all been done with the battery.​

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266148

Note: SINAD performance is 100% the same when using the Wi-Fi input.​

Frequency Response - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266151

Noise Level - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266149

Dynamic Range - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266152

Intermodulation Distortion SMPTE - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266153

Intermodulation Distortion SMPTE Versus Level - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266154

Jitter - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266155

Multitone 64 - 24b/192kHz
View attachment 266160

Intermodulation Distortion + Noise (sweep) - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266158

Crosstalk - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266159
What to say? The whole performance seems to be very similar to WiiM Mini, apart from Dynamic Range. Meaning: not quite OK. Overall, while far from being catastrophic, we are expecting much better by 2023 standards. Yes, some may point to the price, but no, we have seen cheaper unit performing better than this. Yes, not as features-packed, but at least suitable/transparent enough for 16 bits, what is not even the case here. At least, I cannot point one particular result showing a "broken" product (except IMD VS Level that is particularly poor, though) I would say that it is "cohesively subpar" performance... But, at least, the results are still a bit above manufacturer's specs: -86dB THD+N, 102dB SNR.​


Line Out Level
The WiiM Pro also comes with four selectable (fixed) output levels. While I did not test precisely the behaviour of digital attenuation at different level in the analog domain, (but I did catch THD+N at different digital volume below), I measured each of the output settings and expected a logical drop in performance. Yet, for some reason, the opposite happened:​
2Vrms : -88.8dB THD+N
1Vrms : -92.8dB THD+N
800mV : -93.1dB THD+N
500mV : -93.2dB THD+N

Finally, the best performance I could have measure out of the DAC has been when set at 0.5Vrms:​

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1kHz



ADC Performance
For these next bunch of tests, I compared the exact same analog signal, which is the RCA output of my Matrix Mini-i Pro 3, first measured by the ADC of the ADI-2/4 PRO SE, then measured by the ADC of the WiiM Pro (and finally, the latter digitally recorded by the ADI-2/4 through S/PDIF). The obvious purpose is to observe how the WiiM Pro performs against a much higher end ADC. While being not Sate Of The Art, I considered the Matrix to be clean enough (about 109dB SINAD, SE) to not bottleneck the ADC performance of the WiiM Pro. And trust me, it did not !

Note: The WiiM pro cannot handle input signals when slightly above 1Vrms, which is according to manufacturer's specs. After quite a few tests, I lowered the Matrix's output down to 1.05Vrms to get the best case scenario in terms of performance.

WiiM Pro - ADC Summary
Tests
Reference 1.05Vrms output
ADC
Frequency Response 40Hz; 15kHz​
+0.01, -0.02​
+0.01, -0.05​
Noise level​
-115.1dBA​
-97.1dBA​
Dynamic range​
113.5dB​
92.4dB​
THD + Noise / SINAD​
-109.8dB​
-88.8dB​
IMD SMPTE​
-103.5dB​
-80.2dB​
Stereo crosstalk​
-115.3​
-84.7​


Note: It appears that the WiiM Pro's ADC is using internal sampling to 48kHz, according to frequency rate displayed on the ADI-2/4. As such, measurements you are about to see are all done at 24bits / 48kHz.
Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266678

Ouch. That really is not great, and seems to be on par with @amirm measurements of the WiiM Mini ADC. This is the best performance that I could measure. When feeding the ADC with a slightly stronger signal (1.09Vrms), the performance degrades only by a few dB. However, we start to see the ADC clipping when reaching about 1.20Vrms. Above, we enter this scenario:

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266466

Needless to say, it is completely unusable. Which is a shame, when we know that the vast majority of analog sources out there are often rated 2V output voltage, not to mention without variable output... So if you planned to pair the WiiM Pro with, say, a regular CD Player, you will have to use the S/PDIF input or just forget about it...

Frequency Response - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266485

There is some 0.4dB loss in amplitude over the original measured signal. It is still fair and most likely flat from 20H to 20kHz.

Noise Level - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266460

Dynamic Range - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266461

Note: This is measured without the Cosmos APU, due to wiring limitations. Still enough to observe Dynamic Range differences between both ADC.​

Intermodulation Distortion SMPTE - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266462

Multitone 64 - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266465

Jitter - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266187

Wow. This last one is a complete failure. I had to double-check this J-test several times to understand how it could be so wrong, but no, this is what you get after WiiM A/D conversion. Some may think the S/PDIF output of the WiiM Pro to be responsible, but it is not, as you will see later.

Overall, this is indeed a bad performance. I would personally not pair any analog source to this product, unless some (already poor) signal out of a phono preamp.

By the way, in case some may think about using it as an analog hub, this is the performance when using Line In straight to Line Out:

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266502



Digital Performance
View attachment 265841
Alright, now we are entering a much more interesting (and cleaner) area. Because I assume that many WiiM Pro owners are intending to use it mostly as a digital hub, paired with a much better DAC than what we have seen above. (in fact, you all have to!). These next tests have all been done without A/D conversion and are 100% in the digital domain. I used either REW tone generator for S/PDIF inputs, or WAV test files tones from the Audio Precision's tone generator, then played through the WiiM Home App, or Roon. Results are directly recorded through S/PDIF with the ADI-2/4 Loopback.

Note: To state the obvious, zero difference has been observed between wired LAN and Wi-Fi connection (literary no reason there would). All tests have been done with Wi-Fi.

Let's start with the regular main (Wi-Fi) input:

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1/192kHz
View attachment 266170

As we might expect from any decent unit, we got a textbook, absolutely perfect 1Khz signal, with distortion and noise out of this world. Nothing to worry about if you plan to use the WiiM Pro that way. The rest will be up to your own DAC.

By the way, just for peace of mind, this is how the SMPTE IMD looks like :​

Intermodulation Distortion SMPTE - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266504


Chromecast
Since the WiiM Pro does have a Google Chromecast bluit-in, that uses different protocols than the WiiM App, we have to check its specific behaviour. To do so, I used a 44.1kHz 0dBFS sine wav, played through Roon (and WiiM Pro Chromecast as a Roon Endpoint). We got this:

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1/96kHz
View attachment 266456

Note: This test has been done again after the latest update. Before that, Chromecast's performance was much worse (see there).​

S/PDIF pass-trough
I also checked both optical and coaxial outputs, hardly trying to find any difference...​

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266172
Note: I have read and heard some early adopters complaining about the S/PDIF showing some delay, for instance when used with a TV optical output. I noticed nothing of the sort (LG OLED C2), so my guess is that it has been fixed since.

Speaking about it, here are the jitter plots for both:​

Jitter Optical - 24b/48khz
View attachment 266179

Jitter Coaxial - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266180


EQ
When EQ is set On, it widely affects performance:

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266457
Obviously, you do not want to use EQ at fixed volume, unless 57dB SINAD (before D/A conversion) is something you are looking for... It becomes way cleaner with volume is unlocked, the lowered at about 95%. This issue could be easily fixed by firmware, by setting max volume about 1dBFS down.​


Bluetooth
For the last graph of all, let me introduce this horror show:​

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266178
What a shame that the WiiM Pro does not support aptX HD or LDAC... These results are to be expetced and share the same profile than seen in @amirm measurments there (with even a touch worse implementation).

Digital Volume
Last but not least, a quick world about digital volume implementation. This is what I get when measuring the same 1kHz tone (Wi-Fi In, 44.1kHz) at different levels:

Fixed: -141.8dB THD+N
≃75%: -138.2dB THD+N
≃50%: -131.5dB THD+N
≃25%: -115.5dB THD+N
≃10%: -99.6dB THD+N

...Well, that is enough data for today! As I do not use these at all, I missed either DLNA and Airplay, but you have to expect 16bits/48kHz limitation for the latter. In my humble opinion, that would make no sense to use it over Chromecast.


Conclusions
I will try to isolate both my subjective thoughts and objective findings each others for a little... If looking only at overall pure performance, the WiiM Pro is kind of a mess. While not being the worst I have seen, the DAC portion is nothing near suitable for 24 bits content, far from what we should expect from a product launched in late 2022 (at whatever price), and actually surpassed by some dongles. The ADC is even weaker, not to mention almost useless if you do not have a variable output, thanks to its 1Vrms rated max input. Among other scenarios, it will probably not degrade (even more) some phono signal, but what would be the point to use a turntable for ending in the digital domain that way? You vinyl guys tell me...

On the other hand, we got the digital side. First, the app is cool, it works great, without noticeable bugs or lags. I enjoyed using it on a daily basis. Then, we have the unquestionable performance. It is indeed perfectly transparent when using Wi-Fi, and remains always stable even when streaming 192kHz tracks. The S/PDIF inputs/outputs are a great addition if you want, like me, a streamer feeding your DAC (with only one optical input), that may also catch a signal from a TV or another source. If I forget the (expected to be) poorly Bluetooth measurements, all digital inputs just work and measure great. Chromecast is one of the best addition over the regular WiiM Mini, since you may choose to bypass the WiiM Home App, using either Roon, or any major streaming service's dedicated app. I am personally still waiting for Roon Ready update, and would be glad to re-measure if the digital performance remains the same that way.

Weighting the pros and cons, I will give the WiiM Pro my recommendation, based on how I would (and will!) use it for myself. For the price, it just does its job, and in a great manner. Period.

Flanker rating:
WiiM Pro (analog in & out): Mediocre
WiiM Pro (digital transport):
Excellent
Thanks for a very good review !
Good that the digital volume output from spdif is very good ! Seems to be true 24 bit.
This unit seems to be a bargain if used as a digital hub to an external dac , or to use with SAM monitors from Genelec.:)

This review should be promoted to homepage by Amirm.
 
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