WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements (Streamer)

[davidc]

If you are casting to your AVR from the Amazon Music app and have enabled the Heos skill (which you’ll need to have done to make your avr visible to the amazon music app and Alexa) then you may be getting just SD - that’s all I got in the past when I had a Heos Link HS2 but their firmware (and Alexa) may have moved on since then, but I’d doubt it. You used to be able to open the Alexa app and see what was playing on your account and it would show the HD badge if that’s what was playing - might be worth seeing if that shows the resolution as for some reason the Amazon Music app doesn’t want to show that.

I ditched my Heos link when the WiiM Mini came out and get all the way up to 24/192 no matter which app I use. I feed that over optical into my amp which does display the playback resolution

According to Denon and Marantz, since the update of the HEOS software (and the app updated as of 1/11/24) you can play HD and better quality. But, the info is sort of ambiguous. It doesn't really differentiate from playing via the HEOS app, vs casting via the Amazon app. Although, HEOS is launched automatically (but I don't have to interact with it)


"
With the addition of Amazon Music HD, you will now be able to play Ultra HD music on supported HEOS systems from the HEOS App when choosing Amazon Music.
Ultra HD means at least 24-bit 48kHz and up to 192kHz, which means it sounds significantly better than most other streaming services.



What is required?
Because the ability to play Amazon Music HD on HEOS products is made possible through an automatic software upgrade (assuming your product is internet-connected), all you will need to stream at Amazon Music Ultra HD resolution is an Amazon Music HD subscription. If you have any of the HEOS products below, your product should already be Amazon Music HD ready, provided your product has been connected to the internet to receive the automatic update."

 

[Joffy1780]

I should add I am also an Amazon Unlimited subscriber.

 

[Joffy1780]

According to Denon and Marantz, since the update of the HEOS software (and the app updated as of 1/11/24) you can play HD and better quality. But, the info is sort of ambiguous. It doesn't really differentiate from playing via the HEOS app, vs casting via the Amazon app. Although, HEOS is launched automatically (but I don't have to interact with it)


"
With the addition of Amazon Music HD, you will now be able to play Ultra HD music on supported HEOS systems from the HEOS App when choosing Amazon Music.
Ultra HD means at least 24-bit 48kHz and up to 192kHz, which means it sounds significantly better than most other streaming services.



What is required?
Because the ability to play Amazon Music HD on HEOS products is made possible through an automatic software upgrade (assuming your product is internet-connected), all you will need to stream at Amazon Music Ultra HD resolution is an Amazon Music HD subscription. If you have any of the HEOS products below, your product should already be Amazon Music HD ready, provided your product has been connected to the internet to receive the automatic update."

That seems to be referring to using the HEOS app, or at least that's my interpretation.

 

[davidc]

Only other info I can find is the sample rate, via the web control function or via the menus on my Denon AVR -3600, so I would assume the 4800 would also be able to display this.
When casting from Amazon Music app (android) to my AVR 3600 everything is resampled to 44.1khz.

I just looked on web control on the Denon app and can't find anywhere wear it states the sample rate (let alone the bit rate). Where did you see it?

 

[davidc]

That seems to be referring to using the HEOS app, or at least that's my interpretation.

Yes, but HEOS app is launched automatically when I cast via the Amazon Music app, even though I don't have to touch HEOS for anything.

 

[Joffy1780]

I just looked on web control on the Denon app and can't find anywhere wear it states the sample rate (let alone the bit rate). Where did you see it?

Maybe the interface is different on the 4800, but on the 3600 it is under General> Information and it gives the audio format, sample rate and channel count. No bit rate, I'm afraid.

Yes, but HEOS app is launched automatically when I cast via the Amazon Music app, even though I don't have to touch HEOS for anything.

Sorry, I meant it seems to be referring to accessing the music via the HEOS app. Whatever app or casting method you use to send music to your Denon, it will always play through the HEOS app/input on your AVR (although you don't ever have to interact with it).

 

[davidc]

Maybe the interface is different on the 4800, but on the 3600 it is under General> Information and it gives the audio format, sample rate and channel count. No bit rate, I'm afraid.

Sorry, I meant it seems to be referring to accessing the music via the HEOS app. Whatever app or casting method you use to send music to your Denon, it will always play through the HEOS app/input on your AVR (although you don't ever have to interact with it).

Thank you for clarifying the HEOS thing. I really appreciate that.

 

[antcollinet]

I should clarify. The Standard quality with Amazon Music is MP3 (unacceptable). What they call HiRes is CD quality, and Ultra High Res is beyond that. So, we want at least the CD quality.

ah. that makes sense

 

[Brantome]

Only other info I can find is the sample rate, via the web control function or via the menus on my Denon AVR -3600, so I would assume the 4800 would also be able to display this.
When casting from Amazon Music app (android) to my AVR 3600 everything is resampled to 44.1khz.

And I suspect that 44.kHz is actually mp3. I don’t think the Alexa skill route which underpins AlexaCast for Heos allows lossless casting

 

[Brantome]

According to Denon and Marantz, since the update of the HEOS software (and the app updated as of 1/11/24) you can play HD and better quality. But, the info is sort of ambiguous. It doesn't really differentiate from playing via the HEOS app, vs casting via the Amazon app. Although, HEOS is launched automatically (but I don't have to interact with it)


"
With the addition of Amazon Music HD, you will now be able to play Ultra HD music on supported HEOS systems from the HEOS App when choosing Amazon Music.
Ultra HD means at least 24-bit 48kHz and up to 192kHz, which means it sounds significantly better than most other streaming services.



What is required?
Because the ability to play Amazon Music HD on HEOS products is made possible through an automatic software upgrade (assuming your product is internet-connected), all you will need to stream at Amazon Music Ultra HD resolution is an Amazon Music HD subscription. If you have any of the HEOS products below, your product should already be Amazon Music HD ready, provided your product has been connected to the internet to receive the automatic update."

Do you have a link please so I can see this in context with other updates. My reading of the above is what I thought Heos has supported for years.

And when you mention Heos being launched automatically, what do you mean?

 

[Joffy1780]

And I suspect that 44.kHz is actually mp3. I don’t think the Alexa skill route which underpins AlexaCast for Heos allows lossless casting

It does state PCM as the signal when casting from Amazon app (FLAC when using HEOS to access)

 

[Brantome]

It does state PCM as the signal when casting from Amazon app (FLAC when using HEOS to access)

Yeah but that could still be a lossy MP3 delivered in a PCM stream. Seeing the sample rate isn’t enough as I’m sure you’re aware, you’d need to see the bitrate as bit depth isn't relevant for lossy streams. If you play an mp3 file from say your WiiM over optical or coax, does your AVR also show PCM?

 

[Joffy1780]

Yeah but that could still be a lossy MP3 delivered in a PCM stream. Seeing the sample rate isn’t enough as I’m sure you’re aware, you’d need to see the bitrate as bit depth isn't relevant for lossy streams. If you play an mp3 file from say your WiiM over optical or coax, does your AVR also show PCM?

Will check later, I'm late for work lol.

 

[davidc]

And I suspect that 44.kHz is actually mp3. I don’t think the Alexa skill route which underpins AlexaCast for Heos allows lossless casting

Sound quality wise by listening, it does seem like many of the HD tracks are MP3 quality. Many of them seem much better. But I just remember the CD's I listened to of the same music are far superior to the sound of some of the tracks. (or is it my ears?). There has got to be a way just to measure the quality of the stream from my WiFi to the AVR, right? If it was something to measure for the phone itself, I'm sure "there's an app for that.?

 

[Joffy1780]

Yeah but that could still be a lossy MP3 delivered in a PCM stream. Seeing the sample rate isn’t enough as I’m sure you’re aware, you’d need to see the bitrate as bit depth isn't relevant for lossy streams. If you play an mp3 file from say your WiiM over optical or coax, does your AVR also show PCM?

I mustn't have fully read this this morning, as I don't actually have my Wiim Pro connected to my AVR, and I don't seemt o have many .mp3 files easily available, so might take a bit longer to test.

 

[davidc]

I mustn't have fully read this this morning, as I don't actually have my Wiim Pro connected to my AVR, and I don't seemt o have many .mp3 files easily available, so might take a bit longer to test.

If you could test this, I would be forever grateful. It will answer all the questions. I don't care much about the sample rate, as any male over 50 probably is down 20dB at 15kHz, lol. But bitrate is the key. MP3, at best, is 300 or so. The CD is 1,411. I'd love to know what your WiiM is, but I'm mostly curious about what the bitrate is for HEOS by itself with the HEOS app vs. the Amazon app casting to the AVR with what Amazon calls HD and UHD. Thank you so much for checking.

 

[Joffy1780]

If you could test this, I would be forever grateful. It will answer all the questions. I don't care much about the sample rate, as any male over 50 probably is down 20dB at 15kHz, lol. But bitrate is the key. MP3, at best, is 300 or so. The CD is 1,411. I'd love to know what your WiiM is, but I'm mostly curious about what the bitrate is for HEOS by itself with the HEOS app vs. the Amazon app casting to the AVR with what Amazon calls HD and UHD. Thank you so much for checking.

I have no way of checking the bitrate, sorry.

 

[antcollinet]

But bitrate is the key.

Not strictly true.

When you get into lossy endoding, then the codec is key. Some are more efficient than others. For example ALC is supposedly better than MP3 - so an ALC file at the same bitrate as an MP3 file will sound better, or at a lower bitrate can sound just as good.

If you were to take lossless PCM coding, but reduce the sample rate and bit depth so you could get it down to the 300kb/s of an MP3 file - it would sound much worse. (You'd need to be down at 20Khz sampling - 10Khz bandwidth - 8 bits per sample)

You can only compare bit rates to rate sound quality, if you are comparing with the same codec.

 

[Brantome]

Not strictly true.

When you get into lossy endoding, then the codec is key. Some are more efficient than others. For example ALC is supposedly better than MP3 - so an ALC file at the same bitrate as an MP3 file will sound better, or at a lower bitrate can sound just as good.

If you were to take lossless PCM coding, but reduce the sample rate and bit depth so you could get it down to the 300kb/s of an MP3 file - it would sound much worse. (You'd need to be down at 20Khz sampling - 10Khz bandwidth - 8 bits per sample)

You can only compare bit rates to rate sound quality, if you are comparing with the same codec.

What I was meaning re the bitrate wasn’t to do with sound as such, merely to demonstrate whether a lossy MP3 file was being sent when casting from the amazon music app to a Heos device using AlexaCast on the back of the Heos skill.

Measurements aside, as a long term user of Amazon Music and Alexa, I’m going to stick my neck out and say it is just lossy MP3.

Edit: if the AVR supports AirPlay, Amazon state that you can use that to send HD to a compatible device.

 

[antcollinet]

What I was meaning re the bitrate wasn’t to do with sound as such, merely to demonstrate whether a lossy MP3 file was being sent when casting from the amazon music app to a Heos device using AlexaCast on the back of the Heos skill.

Measurements aside, as a long term user of Amazon Music and Alexa, I’m going to stick my neck out and say it is just lossy MP3.

Edit: if the AVR supports AirPlay, Amazon state that you can use that to send HD to a compatible device.

So from the bitrate you can tell if it is lossy audio or not.

Good point - sorry for my misunderstanding.