WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review

[onlyoneme]

So that % is a sort-of subjective number?

A sort of. Just a scale where reduction from 100% to 1% means 60 dB signal level attenuation.

 

[totti1965]

I know it measures better but is the DAC in the Pro Plus audibly better than the DAC in the Pro? I have a Pro and use the analogue output so I wondered if upgrading to the Pro Plus I would hear an improvement?

This guy here is a totally subjectivist and he says Yes: 2/10 for sound quality for the Pro And 6/10 for sound quality of the Pro Plus:

But, I think, the hearable differences are quite extremely small:
The Pro has about 90 dB SINAD and the Pro Plus has 113 dB SINAD.

The absolute Threshold of listening is about 115 dB or 116 dB. The physic and human biology just says, that more is simply not necessaire.

But if you play real music this big measurable differences between 90 dB (Pro) and 113 dB (Pro Plus) seems to be barely hearable.

Also you have to ask yourself the question if your amp has more than 90 dB SINAD, which is not likely the case….

Note: Darko says the EUR 800,— Chord Mojo 2 separate DAC will further increase the sound quality (from 6.0 to 7.5)
But this is definitely not a good advice: SINAD of the analog out of the WiiM Pro Plus is 113, SINAD of the Chord Mojo 2 is 110 dB - which is per se fantastic. But who wants to decrease the sound Quality by 3 dB by adding a separate DAC?

 

[DanielT]

This guy here is a totally subjectivist and he says Yes: 2/10 for sound quality for the Pro And 6/10 for sound quality of the Pro Plus:

But, I think, the hearable differences are quite extremely small:
The Pro has about 90 dB SINAD and the Pro Plus has 113 dB SINAD.

The absolute Threshold of listening is about 115 dB or 116 dB. The physic and human biology just says, that more is simply not necessaire.

But if you play real music this big measurable differences between 90 dB (Pro) and 113 dB (Pro Plus) seems to be barely hearable.

Also you have to ask yourself the question if your amp has more than 90 dB SINAD, which is not likely the case….

Quote: Darko says the EUR 800,— Chord Mojo 2 separate DAC will further increase the sound quality (from 6.0 to 7.5)
But this is definitely not a good advice: SINAD of the analog out of the WiiM Pro Plus is 113, SINAD of the Chord Mojo 2 is 110 dB - which is per se fantastic. But who wants to decrease the sound Quality by 3 dB by adding a separate DAC?

This with audibility. Then it will go from theory to practice.All noise and distortion is added in the audio chain.Quoting ocinn:

In the real world, with todays passive speakers (majority can’t even clear -50db THD)....

Quote from #24 in the thread:

3e Audio TPA3255 Amplifier Kit 480-1-29A Review

Decided not to vote in order not to skew results. It's clearly a very good amp module, but as a DIY proposition I'd never know if I had implemented it correctly. Impressive and, for me, one to watch out for if suppliers start offering finished units ... although I'd still look for measurements...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[onlyoneme]

But, I think, the hearable differences are quite extremely small:
The Pro has about 90 dB SINAD and the Pro Plus has 113 dB SINAD.

The absolute Threshold of listening is about 115 dB or 116 dB. The physic and human biology just says, that more is simply not necessaire.

But if you play real music this big measurable differences between 90 dB (Pro) and 113 dB (Pro Plus) seems to be barely hearable.

Also you have to ask yourself the question if your amp has more than 90 dB SINAD, which is not likely the case….

Quote: Darko says the EUR 800,— Chord Mojo 2 separate DAC will further increase the sound quality (from 6.0 to 7.5)
But this is definitely not a good advice: SINAD of the analog out of the WiiM Pro Plus is 113, SINAD of the Chord Mojo 2 is 110 dB - which is per se fantastic. But who wants to decrease the sound Quality by 3 dB by adding a separate DAC?

How often do you listen to pure 1 kHz sine waves?

 

[ads_cft222]

Noise is additive in the chain

 

[ahofer]

This guy here is a totally subjectivist and he says Yes: 2/10 for sound quality for the Pro And 6/10 for sound quality of the Pro Plus:

But, I think, the hearable differences are quite extremely small:
The Pro has about 90 dB SINAD and the Pro Plus has 113 dB SINAD.

The absolute Threshold of listening is about 115 dB or 116 dB. The physic and human biology just says, that more is simply not necessaire.

But if you play real music this big measurable differences between 90 dB (Pro) and 113 dB (Pro Plus) seems to be barely hearable.

Also you have to ask yourself the question if your amp has more than 90 dB SINAD, which is not likely the case….

Quote: Darko says the EUR 800,— Chord Mojo 2 separate DAC will further increase the sound quality (from 6.0 to 7.5)
But this is definitely not a good advice: SINAD of the analog out of the WiiM Pro Plus is 113, SINAD of the Chord Mojo 2 is 110 dB - which is per se fantastic. But who wants to decrease the sound Quality by 3 dB by adding a separate DAC?

Anyone want to arrange a blind test between the two?

 

[DanielT]

Anyone want to arrange a blind test between the two?

Here's a tip, if you want to test at a slightly lower level:

Can you hear a difference between dac+amp path with 92dB vs. 78dB SINAD? (test)

Can you hear a difference between dac+amp path with 92dB vs. 78dB SINAD? Quite a lot has been said here about “audibility” of SINAD, or existing/non-existing sound differences between amplifiers or DACs. Quite often we forget to evaluate SINAD of the whole audio chain consisting of a DAC, power...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[totti1965]

How often do you listen to pure 1 kHz sine waves?

daily

 

[AudioSceptic]

This guy here is a totally subjectivist and he says Yes: 2/10 for sound quality for the Pro And 6/10 for sound quality of the Pro Plus:

But, I think, the hearable differences are quite extremely small:
The Pro has about 90 dB SINAD and the Pro Plus has 113 dB SINAD.

The absolute Threshold of listening is about 115 dB or 116 dB. The physic and human biology just says, that more is simply not necessaire.

But if you play real music this big measurable differences between 90 dB (Pro) and 113 dB (Pro Plus) seems to be barely hearable.

Also you have to ask yourself the question if your amp has more than 90 dB SINAD, which is not likely the case….

Quote: Darko says the EUR 800,— Chord Mojo 2 separate DAC will further increase the sound quality (from 6.0 to 7.5)
But this is definitely not a good advice: SINAD of the analog out of the WiiM Pro Plus is 113, SINAD of the Chord Mojo 2 is 110 dB - which is per se fantastic. But who wants to decrease the sound Quality by 3 dB by adding a separate DAC?

Should we believe any subjective result not supported by a double-blind level-matched test?

The Mojo 2 is ~£400 in the UK. Where does €800 come from?

 

[ahofer]

How often do you listen to pure 1 kHz sine waves?

Only to make it easier to hear distortion.

Listening Test

www.klippel.de

 

[onlyoneme]

daily

If that fully meets your music taste then yes, sinad can be the one and only measurement although still under some circumstances. Most people rather prefer more complex sound instead.

 

[ahofer]

If that fully meets your music taste then yes, sinad can be the one and only measurement although still under some circumstances. Most people rather prefer more complex sound instead.

It seems like you might prefer Red Herring.

 

[totti1965]

Should we believe any subjective result not supported by a double-blind level-matched test?

The Mojo 2 is ~£400 in the UK. Where does €800 come from?

Oh it was from Amir’s testing: USD 799,—
I thought it would be in Europe EUR 800,—
It seems to be a nice toy to play around:

CHORD Mojo 2 Review (Portable DAC & HP Amp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the CHORD Mojo 2 portable, battery operated stereo DAC and headphone amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $799. The Mojo 2 is solidly built. While I am definitely not a fan of multi-color interface, the buttons feel better in...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[AudioSceptic]

Oh it was from Amir’s testing: USD 799,—
I thought it would be in Europe EUR 800,—
It seems to be a nice toy to play around:

CHORD Mojo 2 Review (Portable DAC & HP Amp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the CHORD Mojo 2 portable, battery operated stereo DAC and headphone amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $799. The Mojo 2 is solidly built. While I am definitely not a fan of multi-color interface, the buttons feel better in...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I might try an as-new used one, but not ~£400 for a nice toy. Richer Sounds has it for £395 <https://www.richersounds.com/chord-electronics-mojo-2-black.html> if you fancy a new one.

 

[antcollinet]

See @onlyoneme post above.

OK - so those percentages aren't voltage output percentages. Must be some Wiim internal representation of volume.

Because a 10% voltage reduction is only 0.92dB

A 50% voltage reduction is 6dB.


A 10% power reduction is only 0.46dB
A 50% power reduction is only 3dB

 

[antcollinet]

The Pro has about 90 dB SINAD and the Pro Plus has 113 dB SINAD.

I'd be very surprised if anyone can hear that difference with real music in real listening conditions.

Scoring them 2 or 6 (presumably out of 10) is pure audiophile bunkum.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

seems like a great product for the masses, especially for some of use who are starting to settle in on the theory that Good enough is Good enough. I finally signed onto Roon which I was resisting due to the fact that I only stream and have no libary of hi res music etc…i mostly purchased it for the PEQ.
1. could this be a less expensive option?
2. I have read about bugs in the Wiim version of PEQ
thanks

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Ps. While enjoying Roon I miss the simplicity of the Tidal app and No videos on Roon

 

[Joffy1780]

OK - so those percentages aren't voltage output percentages. Must be some Wiim internal representation of volume.

Because a 10% voltage reduction is only 0.92dB

A 50% voltage reduction is 6dB.


A 10% power reduction is only 0.46dB
A 50% power reduction is only 3dB

Correct, but I did say I wasn't talking about voltage reductions.

 

[jcarys]

I'd be very surprised if anyone can hear that difference with real music in real listening conditions.

Scoring them 2 or 6 (presumably out of 10) is pure audiophile bunkum.

Agreed. In theory the higher SINAD is nice to have. In practice, you'd most likely never hear the difference at home with speakers.
If you are listening over a nearly perfect headphone chain, then it might be detectable, but that's a very high volume level. And good luck finding content that actually has recorded dynamics that high.