WiiM Mini Streamer

[Lräk]

Anyone using this with a Topping E50 ?

Yes I am using the Topping E50 along with the PA5 (still working) for about 2 months. I built the CSS Criton TD1 kit speakers which sound great and I was looking for a streamer rather than using my laptop connected through a USB cable. I bought the WiiM soon after finishing my speakers and very happy using AMHD connected to the WiiM @ 16/44.1. I've been just waiting for the update so I could try 24/192 just to see if I could hear the difference (I can't) and finally figured everything out last week that it only works using the WiiM app.

Just got home and tried AMHD connected to the WiiM @ 16/44.1 and the Topping E50 does have about a 2 to 3 second delay between songs. Doesn't bother me except between live albums where there aren't any delays and songs typically run back to back. I didn't see the OPT disconnect at all between songs.

Then I tried the WiiM app with a few different bit rates like 16/44.1, 24/96, and 24/192. I got almost the exact same delay no matter what bit rate I was playing. Always 2 to 3 seconds. However, the OPT on the DAC was definitely disconnecting briefly between songs.

Anyway, I've been so happy with the WiiM I just bought a 2nd during yesterday's Amazon Prime Day ($79). I'm going to use it with my older DAC (Lavaudio DS600) that I bought back in March as I was getting ready for my speaker build. I ended up switching to the Topping set because of the good reviews. I hadn't read about the PA5 reliability problems or I probably wouldn't have bought it. I'm building another set of speakers, but much cheaper just to see what the difference between 'good' and 'cheap' speakers are.

 

[amper42]

I was reading the Stereophile Aug 2022 WiiM review and noticed the author was unable to play AIFF audio files. Not sure how he was trying to play them but I play AIFF files over WiiM every day using Audirvana -> UPnP -> WiiM -> D90SE -> Buckeye NC502MP amp -> Ascend Sierra Towers.

 

[Laserjock]

Yes I am using the Topping E50 along with the PA5 (still working) for about 2 months. I built the CSS Criton TD1 kit speakers which sound great and I was looking for a streamer rather than using my laptop connected through a USB cable. I bought the WiiM soon after finishing my speakers and very happy using AMHD connected to the WiiM @ 16/44.1. I've been just waiting for the update so I could try 24/192 just to see if I could hear the difference (I can't) and finally figured everything out last week that it only works using the WiiM app.

Just got home and tried AMHD connected to the WiiM @ 16/44.1 and the Topping E50 does have about a 2 to 3 second delay between songs. Doesn't bother me except between live albums where there aren't any delays and songs typically run back to back. I didn't see the OPT disconnect at all between songs.

Then I tried the WiiM app with a few different bit rates like 16/44.1, 24/96, and 24/192. I got almost the exact same delay no matter what bit rate I was playing. Always 2 to 3 seconds. However, the OPT on the DAC was definitely disconnecting briefly between songs.

Anyway, I've been so happy with the WiiM I just bought a 2nd during yesterday's Amazon Prime Day ($79). I'm going to use it with my older DAC (Lavaudio DS600) that I bought back in March as I was getting ready for my speaker build. I ended up switching to the Topping set because of the good reviews. I hadn't read about the PA5 reliability problems or I probably wouldn't have bought it. I'm building another set of speakers, but much cheaper just to see what the difference between 'good' and 'cheap' speakers are.

I have the PA5 also but haven’t hooked anything up yet.

 

[Bamyasi]

That's just your DAC

No such delay with RME ADI-2. This is not an issue for WiiM to fix.

Good for you. Still, WiiM way of cycling S/PDIF carrier between tracks is unique, none of my other streamers do this (CCA & FireStick). FireStick is not a good example of course, since it is not bit perfect anyway but CCA manages to keep carrier always on when streaming even while switching sampling rates between tracks (with Qobuz), so it is definitely doable. I believe WiiM developers were just lazy and decided to do full S/PDIF transmitter re-initialization at every track change instead because it was easier to program.

 

[morillon]

Is there a way to verify that the bitrate values are relevant?
ps
it seems to me that in a previous firmware wiim had been proud to announce that the toslink was cut without signal .. without realizing that this approach has its limits (according to the dacs in particular)
in my opinion should only be cut if necessary "pause" function precisely

 

[BDE]

To all the digital experts, I like to add a streamer to my setup so that I don`t need the TV for listening to music (primary Spotify) and like the WiiM

Equipment:
# apple TV 4K HDMI ARC -> Sony TV -> SPDIF/ toslink output (48kHz I guess)
# miniDSP with a coaxial, a SPDIF/ toslink and a AES/ EBU input (96kHz internally)
# streamer I like to add maybe the Wiim? (xx?kHz)

So the issue 2 devices with toslink output but only 1 toslink input..

Options:
A) take another streamer with coaxial output? Which one (same price range)?
B) a converter from SPDIF/ toslink to coaxial output? Used for the TV or streamer? Which one?
C) an automatic SPDIF/ toslink switch (2 in/ 1 out)? Which one?
D) maybe further ways I don`t considered..

I found option D:
As the ATV 4k is able to -send- audio via airplay 2 and the Wiim can receive & output it this should also be possible -> no Adapter required and only the wiim needs to be connected via toslink to the minidsp
# quality wise it should be the same 44.1/ 45k?
# how convenient to use?

@Eneko, ever tried/ considered it?

​

Rather than hardware changes, there is another, possibly more elegant solution to be had from the software domain. That is, the 4th Generation Apple TV’s audio output decoded by any DAC with an optical input – cake plus om nom nom.

At the OS level, the Apple TV (3rd generation included) allows us to divert its digital audio output to another device on the network via Apple’s Airplay protocol whilst the video signal stays the course to the TV over HDMI.

Here’s how: with any slimline Apple remote, click to Settings → Audio and Video → Audio Output and select the remote Airplay-compatible device from the drop-down. Note: it may take up to 30 seconds or so to show; if it doesn’t, ensure Airplay has been enabled in the remote host.

Digital domain volume attenuation can be applied via the adjacent button.

Source: https://darko.audio/2016/03/connect-the-4th-gen-apple-tv-to-a-dac-without-hdmi/

 

[Music1969]

As the ATV 4k is able to -send- audio via airplay 2 and the Wiim can receive & output it this should also be possible -> no Adapter required and only the wiim needs to be connected via toslink to the minidsp

Might be audio / video lag (lip sync).

There is feature on Apple TV to try to sync this but haven't tried.

 

[Witterings]

along with the PA5 (still working) for about 2 months.

I hadn't read about the PA5 reliability problems or I probably wouldn't have bought it. I'm building another set of speakers, but much cheaper just to see what the difference between 'good' and 'cheap' speakers are.

I was thinking about buying a PA5 and hadn't seen any negative comments about relability, where did you hear people were having issues with them?

 

[onlyoneme]

I think I got my WiiM upgraded to 564 and then downgraded to beta 243 next day. Strange a bit.

 

[Lräk]

I was thinking about buying a PA5 and hadn't seen any negative comments about relability, where did you hear people were having issues with them?

Poll for Topping PA5 owners only please.

Poll for PA5 owners to report product defects. Discussion for any solutions. I think it would be useful to get a handle on some numbers to estimate just how wide spread the issues are. Addendum: Here is Topping's response to the PA5 issues...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Merifon]

The bit rate is a nice and revelatory feature.
For instance, in Tidal are sometimes available two version of same album, one marked master and the other not.
With Tidal hifi subscription, 44/16 only, the stream of no master is generally higher in bit vs the master release. For example 1024kbit/sec vs 922kbit/sec.
Since is hard to hear differencies without instant switch, I'm little curious about why and what could means this...

 

[Music1969]

With Tidal hifi subscription, 44/16 only, the stream of no master is generally higher in bit vs the master release. For example 1024kbit/sec vs 922kbit/sec.
Since is hard to hear differencies without instant switch, I'm little curious about why and what could means this...

It can be complicated

For example, if the MQA version is a lossy version made from the CD quality, then MQA can be smaller in file size.

If the MQA-CD version is made from a 24bit master, then it could be larger in file size than the CD quality version.

You are lucky if you have both CD and MQA-CD offered.

In most cases now you are only given the MQA-CD version - not given the normal CD quality master. Removing this choice is the worst part of MQA for me.

 

[Merifon]

It can be complicated

For example, if the MQA version is a lossy version made from the CD quality, then MQA can be smaller in file size.

If the MQA-CD version is made from a 24bit master, then it could be larger in file size than the CD quality version.

You are lucky if you have both CD and MQA-CD offered.

In most cases now you are only given the MQA-CD version - not given the normal CD quality master. Removing this choice is the worst part of MQA for me.

Generally speaking, it seems that all the cases with double edition available, are originally recorded 44.1/16. I take as reference the edition on Qobuz.
So, your assumption should be right.

Errata: no rules, Qobuz edition can vary, So there's not relationship...

 

[Merifon]

Is anybody here with Tidal master subscription? Just for curiosity, which bitrare is reported on master and no master titles?

 

[onlyoneme]

Is anybody here with Tidal master subscription? Just for curiosity, which bitrare is reported on master and no master titles?

RATM Irvine Meadows, 16/44.1 descibed as HIFI - around 780 kbps
RATM Rage Against the Machine - XX, 16/44.1 described as MASTER - around 1000 kbps

But I'm on beta so I don't really know what exactly version is really played.

 

[Merifon]

RATM Irvine Meadows, 16/44.1 descibed as HIFI - around 780 kbps
RATM Rage Against the Machine - XX, 16/44.1 described as MASTER - around 1000 kbps

But I'm on beta so I don't really know what exactly version is really played.

thanks a lot and if you should encounter an album with both version, for example: "Mother's milk" by RHCP, present in both version (master and normal), please let me know, if you can, the average bitrate version comparision...

 

[onlyoneme]

Mother's milk

Higher Ground, 1882 kbps for master, but it's 24/48
1106 kbps non-master, 16/44.1

 

[Merifon]

Higher Ground, 1882 kbps for master, but it's 24/48
1106 kbps non-master, 16/44.1

thank you!

 

[amper42]

Hard to recommend the WiiM these days if you use Audirvana or MiniDSP FLEX. Too many problems and each update has it's own set of issues. Here are some examples with the 20220708 build version 4.6.422564.

1. If I use Audirvana to play music thru WiiM, playback stops after a few songs. It gets lost and just stops. The album is never completely played. It always stalls. Switch to RPI4 with Moode and the issue completely disappears.

2. MiniDSP FLEX without Dirac can handle 96kHz files. And if you use Audirvana to stream music to it via RPI4 the conversion takes place in the background should the audio resolution be too high. BUT, if you use Wiim mini the sound of anything coming from Audirvana over 96kHz turns to noise and static. It's pretty hideous. Here are some examples.
1. Quiet Winter Night - an acoustic jazz project [352_8kHz · 24bit]. Downloaded Flac from HDTracks. Play the audio file to WiiM mini thru Audirvana and you get a hideous rattle/staic noise - no music. Stream it to RPI4 (Moode) and the music plays thru the FLEX with no issues.
2. POLARITY - an acoustic jazz project [176_4kHz · 24bit]. Downloaded Flac from HDTracks. Play the audio file to WiiM mini thru Audirvana and you get a rattle/staic noise or nothing at all. Stream it to RPI4 (Moode) and the music plays thru the FLEX with no issues.

If you are using Audirvana and enjoy Hi Res Audio and happen to have the FLEX best to leave the Wiim Mini disconnected as the firmware doesn't work. Plug in Moode with the RPI4 and you are good to go. Stalling music and static issues NEVER occur with the RPI4 (Moode) setup. It just works.

 

[Turambar]

Is anybody here with Tidal master subscription? Just for curiosity, which bitrare is reported on master and no master titles?

I have one.

Take into account that the Master (mqa) files, are compressed using the mqa algorithm.

Let's take the example of a FLAC file in HiRes that is originally at 24 bits / 96 kHz.

Without compression that needs a bit rate of 2 x 24 x 96 = 4608 kbps.

Of course, FLAC compress the data (lossless). The exact amount of compression depends on the content, but let's say around 25-35%. And this is the bit rate that you see in Qobuz. For instance, The Beatles - Abbey Road (Super Deluxe Edition) - Come Together, you can see a bit rate of 2999 kbps.

In Tidal, with MQA, is different. There is also a compression (lossy) that first downsample to 48 kHz, and insert the MQA instructions on how to treat the file. That means a reduced bit rate. In the same case of The Beatles - Abbey Road - Come Together, you can see in Tidal a bit rate of 1662 kbps.

Of course, when an MQA full decoder (or Core decoder + Renderer) receives the file, then it does all the needed upsampling (usually 8x, i.e. in the case of the Beatles' file, it would be 384 kHz), filtering, and any MQA wizardry needed.

In Tidal, for non master files (Redbook files, really, I think all HiRes files are in MQA) it works the same as in Qobuz, standard FLAC.