WiiM Mini Streamer

[Brantome]

This is my guess:

• Apple Music App on iOS receives lossless streaming from Apple servers
• Before iOS encodes in AAC to send via AirPlay 2, the WiiM application in iOS "captures" the streaming from the Apple Music App and sends it to the WiiM mini device (also in 24/48 format from May 15th ...).

If there is any news, I will update you.

Like their claim that we’ll be able to cast bit perfect lossless HD and UHD tracks from the Amazon Music app to the WiiM mini, these are very bold claims which nonetheless I hope they pull off.

However due to how iOS sandboxes its apps and is ultra strict on security, I don’t see that the WiiM app could possibly intercept a stream meant for the Apple Music app. More likely in my mind is that the WiiM mini can tell Airplay that it can handle lossless files so that’s what it gets delivered. I don’t see the WiiM app being involved at all unless it can flip an iOS setting for lossless transmission as seems possible on MacOS

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

Found another bug. They are putting invalid XML into CurrentURIMetaData. Ampersands can't exist in XML except as escape characters. They throw them in without properly escaping them. The creator and artist tags in this example both contain two unescaped ampersands. I've had to modify my script to correct them, but this should never occur in valid XML, @WiiM Support.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<DIDL-Lite xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
           xmlns:upnp="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/upnp/"
           xmlns:song="www.wiimu.com/song/"
           xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/DIDL-Lite/">
    <upnp:class>object.item.audioItem.musicTrack</upnp:class>
    <item id="0">
        <song:subid></song:subid>
        <song:description></song:description>
        <song:skiplimit>0</song:skiplimit>
        <song:id></song:id>
        <song:like>0</song:like>
        <song:singerid>0</song:singerid>
        <song:albumid>0</song:albumid>
        <song:quality>2</song:quality>
        <song:rate_hz>44100</song:rate_hz>
        <song:format_s>16</song:format_s>
        <res protocolInfo="http-get:*:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3;DLNA.ORG_OP=01;" duration="00:07:17.000"></res>
        <dc:title>Journey Home</dc:title>
        <dc:creator>Brian Bromberg & Joe LaBarbera & Alan Broadbent</dc:creator>
        <upnp:artist>Brian Bromberg & Joe LaBarbera & Alan Broadbent</upnp:artist>
        <upnp:album>'Round Midnight</upnp:album>
        <upnp:albumArtURI>https://resources.tidal.com/images/f32282d8/6155/473a/8644/fa1c849b33d6/640x640.jpg</upnp:albumArtURI>
    </item>
</DIDL-Lite>

 

[carlo_b]

Like their claim that we’ll be able to cast bit perfect lossless HD and UHD tracks from the Amazon Music app to the WiiM mini, these are very bold claims which nonetheless I hope they pull off.

However due to how iOS sandboxes its apps and is ultra strict on security, I don’t see that the WiiM app could possibly intercept a stream meant for the Apple Music app. More likely in my mind is that the WiiM mini can tell Airplay that it can handle lossless files so that’s what it gets delivered. I don’t see the WiiM app being involved at all unless it can flip an iOS setting for lossless transmission as seems possible on MacOS

If it were true that the receiving device (Wiim) can communicate with the sending device and agree on the format to be sent, then WiiM Mini would be the first device in the world to receive AirPlay 2 in bitperfect.

Anyway, I'd like to know if LinkPlay AKA WiiM collaborates with Apple or if it's doing everything "by itself" with AirPlay 2 like shairport-sync.

If on May 30th someone will be able to do a test to verify that WiiM is really bitperfect, thank you in advance!

 

[Owis]

Just to clarify - 24/48 is not bit perfect.

 

[antcollinet]

Just to clarify - 24/48 is not bit perfect.

Really? I thought the definition of bit perfect is that whatever is streamed (at any bitrate/depth) is passed totally unmodified to the Dac.

In that definition, a particular bit rate/depth is neither bit perfect nor not bit perfect.

 

[morillon]

all the energies are here to observe if the commitments concerning amazon hd etc will be respected
but as a reminder for those concerned by deezer...
the "flac" (44/16) offer, concerns the entire catalog, is really usable via the wiim application...!
(while deezer has made hardly any effort to make it usable via its application... airplay if I understood correctly, not bit perferct... not "hifi" via chromecast for exemple dont see tje wiim with deezer app etc :-0)

 

[Music1969]

Before iOS encodes in AAC to send via AirPlay 2, the WiiM application in iOS "captures" the streaming from the Apple Music App and sends it to the WiiM mini device (also in 24/48 format from May 15th ...).

This is kind of kind 'Airplay Connect', like how HomePod works.

But I'm not aware of any other streamer on the planet that works like this - another world first come to WiiM soon !

 

[Music1969]

If it were true that the receiving device (Wiim) can communicate with the sending device and agree on the format to be sent, then WiiM Mini would be the first device in the world to receive AirPlay 2 in bitperfect.

Yep, I've been saying that for weeks here on this thread, ever since I saw the roadmap of new updates.

Just to clarify - 24/48 is not bit perfect.

It is if the album is 24/48 and it reaches the streamer at 24/48?

It is not if all other sample rates are resampled to 48kHz (like with Apple TV Airplay).

WiiM are promising bit perfect Airplay up to 48kHz - if that is true, then it will cover 99% of the music on Apple Music Lossless bit perfectly. That's pretty good !

 

[Jpdelaney.tml]

Hello:
I am listening to Amazon Music on my Wiim Mini this morning, Pink Floyd, The Wall. It appears to be playing gapless. Is this confirmed or are the gaps just too short to interpret?

 

[Jpdelaney.tml]

Hello:
I am listening to Amazon Music on my Wiim Mini this morning, Pink Floyd, The Wall. It appears to be playing gapless. Is this confirmed or are the gaps just too short to interpret?

Ooops, I heard the gap. too bad.

 

[Brantome]

Ooops, I heard the gap. too bad.

WiiM have said that they do support gapless playback but improvements are coming in that area as per their "What's new" page :

• Gapless playback improvements for Qobuz hi-res and Amazon music on WiiM Home App

 

[Jpdelaney.tml]

WiiM have said that they do support gapless playback but improvements are coming in that area as per their "What's new" page :

• Gapless playback improvements for Qobuz hi-res and Amazon music on WiiM Home App

It will be hard for others to compete against the Mini if they make these happen. Look out competition!

 

[Music1969]

WiiM have said that they do support gapless playback but improvements are coming in that area as per their "What's new" page :

• Gapless playback improvements for Qobuz hi-res and Amazon music on WiiM Home App

Something separate but something to look forward to - Qobuz are developing their own 'Qobuz Connect'.

I imagine this will only need a software update (no special certified hardware like Airplay2, Chromecast etc).

So that's something that will likely come to WiiM later I imagine via firmware update.

Still in development phase by Qobuz though.

Would be worth asking WiiM to keep in contact with Qobuz about this - cc @WiiM Support

 

[tsammyc]

Although WiiM don't mention it in release notes, someone at WiiM is constantly improving their DLNA renderer. On the latest firmware, its virtually perfect with Audirvana sending music to WiiM via uPnP, whether its 16/44.1, 24/192 Flac or WAV or DSD 64. No more pauses, skips etc. Just perfect sound. Only issue if you switch DSD 64 albums without pausing the first, Audirvana will sometimes play the wrong song. On my part, I've been reporting previous bugs with Audirvana and sending them the log files, so they seem to be responding and seem to be using Audirvana to debug the previous uPnP issues and Audirvana went from barely usable to virtually perfect with WiiM. Even Tidal Masters MQA decoding from Audirvana to WiiM also seems flawless now. In fact, uPnP is the only way to get MQA output from the WiiM presently.

I have a large collection of various DSD, Flac and WAV files that I either ripped from SACD or downloaded from Acoustic Sounds and others so the ability to finally play all these natively to a DAC over WiFi is truly something. The only limitation is the TOSLINK's 192Khz maximum bandwidth, but in use, Audirvana is downsampling content that TOSLINK can't handle (eg. DSD128 or bitrates > 192Khz) to 192Khz

The way things are going, I'm probably going to get rid of my Bluesound Node and replace it with another WiiM and ChiFi DAC. Bluesound's low scoring DAC is fine by my ears and it supports full MQA unfolding, but it's inability to handle DSD files is a key disadvantage for me. Also, since Bluesound doesn't support uPnP, I can't use Audirvana on Node with hi res files. For me Audirvana is the best sounding player by far. Also for some reason music played from my NAS to the Node just doesn't sound good. WiiM has no issue.

Lastly, gapless playback over uPnP is coming. I would bet that they will be testing this with Audirvana.

 

[Jmudrick]

We (CANADIANS) can all hope for the best as far as Amazon Music UHD is concerned. Other HI-Def services do not appear to be available here, Tidal and MQA not good for my SONCOZ DAC for 24Bit, 192 Khz Flac files like Amazon may provide......

You don't need to be resident in the country your service is based in. I'm using Tidal Argentina and have used Irish Qobuz. Just need a VPN to initiate the account.

 

[morillon]

Although WiiM don't mention it in release notes, someone at WiiM is constantly improving their DLNA renderer. On the latest firmware, its virtually perfect with Audirvana sending music to WiiM via uPnP, whether its 16/44.1, 24/192 Flac or WAV or DSD 64. No more pauses, skips etc. Just perfect sound. Only issue if you switch DSD 64 albums without pausing the first, Audirvana will sometimes play the wrong song. On my part, I've been reporting previous bugs with Audirvana and sending them the log files, so they seem to be responding and seem to be using Audirvana to debug the previous uPnP issues and Audirvana went from barely usable to virtually perfect with WiiM. Even Tidal Masters MQA decoding from Audirvana to WiiM also seems flawless now. In fact, uPnP is the only way to get MQA output from the WiiM presently.

I have a large collection of various DSD, Flac and WAV files that I either ripped from SACD or downloaded from Acoustic Sounds and others so the ability to finally play all these natively to a DAC over WiFi is truly something. The only limitation is the TOSLINK's 192Khz maximum bandwidth, but in use, Audirvana is downsampling content that TOSLINK can't handle (eg. DSD128 or bitrates > 192Khz) to 192Khz

The way things are going, I'm probably going to get rid of my Bluesound Node and replace it with another WiiM and ChiFi DAC. Bluesound's low scoring DAC is fine by my ears and it supports full MQA unfolding, but it's inability to handle DSD files is a key disadvantage for me. Also, since Bluesound doesn't support uPnP, I can't use Audirvana on Node with hi res files. For me Audirvana is the best sounding player by far. Also for some reason music played from my NAS to the Node just doesn't sound good. WiiM has no issue.

Lastly, gapless playback over uPnP is coming. I would bet that they will be testing this with Audirvana.

so of course enormous efforts to adapt the debugger remain to be done, and it is certainly not a simple thing with the number of streaming offers, I admit to having been surprised by the reactivity and the dialogue actually possible with their support!...
the wiim is certainly a rather modest machine by its cost ..
but the support team is amazing!
no doubt by summer the wiim solution should be a "pretty snub"...

am delighted that they are also trying to progress on the "rendering" side, stability.....
;-)
(can be to dig ... even if a subject often discussed here ...
in toslink are results objectively observable by modifying the power supply?? without tarif delirium unrelated to its cost)

 

[Brantome]

You don't need to be resident in the country your service is based in. I'm using Tidal Argentina and have used Irish Qobuz. Just need a VPN to initiate the account.

Doesn't the payment method need to be based there too, or does using Paypal get round that?

 

[tsammyc]

so of course enormous efforts to adapt the debugger remain to be done, and it is certainly not a simple thing with the number of streaming offers, I admit to having been surprised by the reactivity and the dialogue actually possible with their support!...
the wiim is certainly a rather modest machine by its cost ..
but the support team is amazing!
no doubt by summer the wiim solution should be a "pretty snub"...

am delighted that they are also trying to progress on the "rendering" side, stability.....
;-)
(can be to dig ... even if a subject often discussed here ...
in toslink are results objectively observable by modifying the power supply?? without tarif delirium unrelated to its cost)

I use a Topping P50 linear power supply. Two USB 5V outputs power both the WiiM and a Topping D50s DAC. Inexpensive, convenient and no detectable hum even though I have bad ground

 

[morillon]

but we are in ASR... WE NEED MESUREAMENTS!!!
;-))))

 

[Brantome]

but we are in ASR... WE NEED MESUREAMENTS!!!
;-))))

While I don't doubt there are some here who obsess about the numbers, I'm sure there are just as many, if not more, who are more interested in the features the device has to offer which make their listening to music more enjoyable...