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WiiM Mini Streamer

tsammyc

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Firmware 415357 is playing well with Audirvana over uPnP. Haven’t heard a dropout or stutter. Also, DSD64 (mostly self ripped SACD, but also downloads from Acousticsounds and NativeDSD) is now passed to my DAC perfectly on DOP 1.0 On older WiiM firmware, random strange things would happen. Seems like the WiiM tech people are testing with Audirvana as they mentioned in an email that they had reproduced my exact problem. At this point the WiiM mini does everything I want of it. Sure MQA support in the WiiM app and Tidal Connect will be nice, but I generally play music through Audirvana and it’s very stable now.
 

TomInDenver

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I don’t believe “it would just as easy to do bit perfect when casting” - that’s the big “if” or $64k question here.

While some articles I’ve seen suggest that Tidal Connect supposedly supports up to 24/96 (or 24/192 to an MQA certified device), I’ve not experienced Amazon Music’s AlexaCast do anything better than lossy tracks when casting to my Heos Link HS2 which does support lossless Amazon Music up to 24/192 when using its own app. Having said that, Heos support for casting is delivered via an Alexa skill, while the WiiM Mini appears as an Alexa enabled speaker which can be used in echo multiroom groups, which the Heos Link can’t do, so maybe it’ll fare better.

Another factor that might figure in casting is determining the capability of the device being cast to - currently when playing on the Amazon Music app, it only delivers lossless tracks at a resolution the target playing device can support. This would suggest the casting protocol would need to be able to determine that too, or it assumes the worst and sends a lossy mp3 file that is almost universally supported. Again, maybe the WiiM’s implementation as a near echo device will stand it in better stead than devices like the Heos Link that are implemented thru an Alexa skill interface that perhaps can’t determine the target device capabilities.

I guess we’ll continue to speculate until WiiM deliver their solution for lossless Amazon Music HD/UHD…
So I turned on the traffic monitor on my router and looked at 16/44.1 Amazon Music stream started from Wiim App (App shows 16/44.1) and then the same song started from Amazon App with Alexacast to Wiim. The traffic was identical. So I'm going to say it's 16/44.1 using both the Wiim App and Amazon App with Alexacast.
 

Brantome

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So I turned on the traffic monitor on my router and looked at 16/44.1 Amazon Music stream started from Wiim App (App shows 16/44.1) and then the same song started from Amazon App with Alexacast to Wiim. The traffic was identical. So I'm going to say it's 16/44.1 using both the Wiim App and Amazon App with Alexacast.
I’m not disputing that WiiM sends 16/44.1 over SPDIF from AmazonMusic, whether using its app or casting, but I’m saying it’s a compressed, lossy stream at the moment. Can you measure the bitrate or the amount of data being transferred? For example, for a lossless 16/44.1 track, that’s a bitrate of 1.4Mbps or 8.5MB per minute of playback (parking FLAC compression, which could be 50/60%). For a 320kbps lossy track, you’d only see a fraction of that traffic.
 
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Pep2020

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Anyone know where you can buy one in the UK? Seems to be out of stock.
 

Brantome

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Anyone know where you can buy one in the UK? Seems to be out of stock.
Hasn't been on Amazon UK for a while, but you can get it shipped from Amazon.com with delivery by Wed 11th May for £103.50, or £110 if you want it here by Fri 6th May
 

Ralph_Cramden

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Note that it is possible to get FLAC streaming to the WiiM via Alexacast. Install the RP Alexa skill, then “Alexa, tell Radio Paradise to set streaming quality to F. L. A. C.” Then ask Alexa to play RP. It will play to the WiiM as FLAC. Here’s my router showing a constant 1.1Mbps while it streams.


9A4F7A2C-A5D6-4388-8DDD-C3402932BFA5.jpeg
 

Brantome

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Note that it is possible to get FLAC streaming to the WiiM via Alexacast. Install the RP Alexa skill, then “Alexa, tell Radio Paradise to set streaming quality to F. L. A. C.” Then ask Alexa to play RP. It will play to the WiiM as FLAC. Here’s my router showing a constant 1.1Mbps while it streams.

I may be being pedantic, sorry, but as a long term Alexa user, I wouldn't call that casting as you're asking Alexa to play on a device that supports FLAC, in much the same manner as I could play a FLAC file/stream on any echo device, as I have done using the RP skill, or the MyMedia skill which plays local flac files from my NAS, or indeed a lossless HD/UHD file from Amazon Music.

For me, AlexaCast is a relatively new Amazon Music app feature which "will allow you to play (cast) and control music on any of your Alexa devices from your Amazon Music iOS or Android app".

To me, asking Alexa to play on an alexa compatible device is much the same as pressing the play button on a music app on your phone....
 
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AndyLewis

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So as a streamer, I assume it is only assembling PCM from IP packets, to go out optically. So long as it has stable clocks and a decent UI, it should work fine. Seems good value if you already have a DAC, amp etc., and just want to add internet music.
Can it use a DLNA source?
Yes it seems so - I have one built in to my router & it steams 24 bit 96khz files stored on a 128 gb from the other end of the house no problems. The input into the device via HD bluetooth & out of the toslink into the dac of my 6000a sounds almost as good & works very well too. A look at the Bluetooth spec has snr in the hundreds of db! That's 106€ well spent for me.
 

MarcosCh

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Short question. Can it send a signal from its line input to other upnp streamers or does it need to be to a second wiim?
 

rohitharsh

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I’m not disputing that WiiM sends 16/44.1 over SPDIF from AmazonMusic, whether using its app or casting, but I’m saying it’s a compressed, lossy stream at the moment. Can you measure the bitrate or the amount of data being transferred? For example, for a lossless 16/44.1 track, that’s a bitrate of 1.4Mbps or 8.5MB per minute of playback (parking FLAC compression, which could be 50/60%). For a 320kbps lossy track, you’d only see a fraction of that traffic.
@TomInDenver I will second that. If you can measure the amount of data being transferred and compare it to data being transferred in Amazon Music then we will know. If for the same song the data is similar the WiiM is not lossy. At least it’s CD. This information will be very helpful.
 

rohitharsh

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@mSpot what @Owis said.
if @TomInDenver can
1. Measure network activity with music just playing in Amazon App.
2. Then playing same music through WiiM
3 And finally cast through Amazon to Wiim

This will give us good understanding. I am genuinely interested and not sayin that WiiM cannot handle CD quality.

When I use Airplay then I believe I can get CD quality so I am not too worried. But this little device has a lot of potential.
 

rohitharsh

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Airplay 2 (which the wiim uses) is 16/48 is it not...
Yes. My DAC shows it as 16/48. Whats interesting is that when I play music through the WiiM app it shows 16/44 in WiiM UI. There is definitely difference in sound between WiiM App and Airplay. WiiM app sound is thinner with extended treble. Airplay seems more fuller and rich. I am sticking to Airplay till WiiM becomes bit perfect. I think that’s more of a known quantity. Also I am happy if I get CD quality. My ears cannot make out much difference between CD quality and high res.
 

Brantome

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Yes but he’s using the Wiim in both scenarios which could be both lossy. Compare through the Wiim and then without
WiiM confirmed to me a while ago that they currently don’t support lossless Amazon Music whether that be 16 bit HD or 24 bit UHD - that’s what they’re developing and targeting for 15/5, although it looks like that will slip.

Amazon Music historically has been lossy MP3 and supported on a range of kit. When lossy Amazon Music HD was released, support for it was, and still is to an extent, sporadic as Amazon perversely seem to go out of their way to make it hard for third parties to support it.

As I think I’ve posted in this or the other big WiiM thread, you can think of the current Amazon Music service having three quality levels: lossy SD, lossless 16 bit HD and lossless 24bit UHD. What initial implementations of Amazon Music support is the first (from what used to be called the Amazon Music Unlimited service) with support for both the second and third (from what was released separately as the Amazon Music HD service) being the uphill struggle. I also believe that the two services have different APIs, levels of certification and even delivery mechanisms (e.g. the use of adaptive bandwidth for the HD service).

Where I think the confusion has arisen is that lossy SD tracks also present as 16/44.1 from WiiM, as would a lossless 16/44.1 HD (CD quality) track. To be honest, I think some of the WiiM information on their website isn’t helpful where even they have confused 16bit as solely HD and talk about developing support for UHD alone.

I strongly contend that WiiM currently only supports the first quality level of Amazon Music, and are working on the second and third, not that they currently support the first and second.
 
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Brantome

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Short question. Can it send a signal from its line input to other upnp streamers or does it need to be to a second wiim?
I believe it’s primarily a receiver/renderer and can only forward audio to other WiiM units e.g. it can’t act as an Airplay 2 source, nor can it perform line in redistribution to other units such as echos (WiiM confirmed this latter point when I asked).
 
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Ralph_Cramden

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You can see the WiiM's metadata using a simple UPnP app. I use "UPnP Tool", which is free for iOS and Android.

Here's an example of the metadata for a "Hi-Res" Qobuz stream. Note the <song:quality> tag; the 3 indicates "Hi-Res", at least that's what shows on the WiiM app when it's set to 3. The <song:rate_hz> is obvious, but the <song:format_s> is a bit puzzling - the metadata shows 32, but the app displays 24 in this example.

XML:
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<DIDL-Lite xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:upnp="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/upnp/" xmlns:song="www.wiimu.com/song/" xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/DIDL-Lite/">
<upnp:class>object.item.audioItem.musicTrack</upnp:class>
<item id="0">
<song:subid></song:subid>
<song:description></song:description>
<song:skiplimit>0</song:skiplimit>
<song:id>149211677</song:id>
<song:like>0</song:like>
<song:singerid>145383</song:singerid>
<song:albumid>qd6p6a4r2yuhb</song:albumid>
<song:quality>3</song:quality>
<res protocolInfo="http-get:*:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3;DLNA.ORG_OP=01;" duration="203000">wiimu_search://149211677</res>
<dc:title>Notte in Algeria</dc:title>
<dc:creator>Various Artists</dc:creator>
<upnp:artist>Various Artists</upnp:artist>
<upnp:album>Boom! Italian Jazz Soundtracks At Their Finest (1959-1969)</upnp:album>
<upnp:albumArtURI>https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/hb/yu/qd6p6a4r2yuhb_600.jpg</upnp:albumArtURI>
<song:rate_hz>96000</song:rate_hz>
<song:format_s>32</song:format_s>
</item>
</DIDL-Lite>
 

jmtocali

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Looking at the info on my network setup when the Wiim plays Amazon music on its app, shows activity in the order of 300kbps. So it should be the mp3 stream being played.
The same happens when I cast from the Amazon Android app to the Wiim.
 
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