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WiiM Mini Streamer

amper42

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Sorry, I can’t offer you ”proof” beyond my long experience with Alexa (which you admit you don’t use) and previous comments here where I’ve posted from Amazon developer blogs which explain that Alexa multi room is handled over wifi (using a prime sender and multiple receiver model) and that alexa multi room music is delivered at a level that all devices in the group can support, so if they all have the capability of playing 24/192, then that’s what they’ll play in an Alexa multi room group.

Amazon devices very definitely do not support or use airplay for multi room - WiiM may do that for their implementation of WiiM multi room, Amazon do not. So your statement about “no matter what app you use” isn’t correct, I’m afraid.

If you have two WiiM Minis, set them up in the alexa app in an echo multiroom group and play some AMHD UHD tracks to demonstrate what I say - I unfortunately only have one.

There are so many different echo devices. Can you point me to a specific Echo device that supports 192kHz for all members in the group? Once I have a link I will purchase it and try it. Thank you!
 
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amper42

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So, in my limited understanding of MQA, it's a (highly) compressed format. The WiiM may be putting out the MUCH lower compressed data through the optical cable, equivalent to perhaps 24/48, which the DAC then "unfolds" to the original format, and your DAC displays. WiiM have stated that their maximum is 24/192.

I may be wrong, but this is my understanding.

From the 2L site, the "original resolution" MQA file is considerably smaller than even a 24/96 file.

View attachment 215375

I believe you are right Ralph. The Quiet Winter Nights album shows up on Qobuz as 24/44.1kHz. If you apply 8x MQA upsampling that takes the file to 352.8kHz which is one of the formats available from HDTracks. So as long as you send the 24/44.1kHz to Wiim mini it goes through fine and 8x upsample takes you to a DAC display of 352.8kHz. On the other hand, when I purchased the 352.8kHz original from HDTracks it was downsampled by my Wiim mini and played at 192kHz.

quiet.png

352.png
 

hitechakias

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Copied that “original resolution” MQA file to my LMS server. It plays on my non-MQA DAC at 24/44.1, both on the WiiM Mini and my Raspberry Pi Squeezelite client. So, the WiiM isn’t performing any magic tricks.

View attachment 215381
my connection I am using LOXJIE D40 Dac
So, in my limited understanding of MQA, it's a (highly) compressed format. The WiiM may be putting out the MUCH lower compressed data through the optical cable, equivalent to perhaps 24/48, which the DAC then "unfolds" to the original format, and your DAC displays. WiiM have stated that their maximum is 24/192.

I may be wrong, but this is my understanding.

From the 2L site, the "original resolution" MQA file is considerably smaller than even a 24/96 file.

View attachment 215375
Polarity is not the same album. I will play the album I tried as TIDAL Master via USB PC and see what it outputs on the dac...once I have the chance since its pass midnight here.
 

Music1969

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Polarity is not the same album. I will play the album I tried as TIDAL Master via USB PC and see what it outputs on the dac...once I have the chance since its pass midnight here.
What you are seeing is really nothing special

It is the main claim of MQA Ltd - they claim hi-res with only 44.1k and 48kHz sample rates with MQA DACs that can decode

Later the WiiM Mini will get a firmware update where it will do "MQA Core Decode" (first unfold)

For now your WiiM optical is only outputting 44.1 and 48kHz with MQA albums

Really simple proof if you don't believe me - while your MQA album is playing take out the optical cable from your Loxie and plug into non-MQA DAC and you'll only see 44.1 and 48kHZ

TOSlink spec is 24/96kHz but many TOSlink sources can work at the S/PDIF spec of 192kHz if transmitter and cable and receiver allow... but not higher
 

Witterings

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So many posts in here I struggle to keep up with it and do a day job as well.

Where are we at with the current releases for people that didn't opt into the original Beta test is Ultra HD now available for everyone and if so what process do I need to do to get it.

I just tried it and am still getting 44.1 so I'm guessing it's not been released to jo public yet??
 

hitechakias

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What you are seeing is really nothing special

It is the main claim of MQA Ltd - they claim hi-res with only 44.1k and 48kHz sample rates with MQA DACs that can decode

Later the WiiM Mini will get a firmware update where it will do "MQA Core Decode" (first unfold)

For now your WiiM optical is only outputting 44.1 and 48kHz with MQA albums

Really simple proof if you don't believe me - while your MQA album is playing take out the optical cable from your Loxie and plug into non-MQA DAC and you'll only see 44.1 and 48kHZ

TOSlink spec is 24/96kHz but many TOSlink sources can work at the S/PDIF spec of 192kHz if transmitter and cable and receiver allow... but not higher
So in my case: owning Wiim Streamer & Using Tidal Master & a DAC with Mqa Decoder... MQA is kind of a benefit since a <100€ streamer can "provide" resolutions higher than 192.
 

AyGee

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So many posts in here I struggle to keep up with it and do a day job as well.

Where are we at with the current releases for people that didn't opt into the original Beta test is Ultra HD now available for everyone and if so what process do I need to do to get it.

I just tried it and am still getting 44.1 so I'm guessing it's not been released to jo public yet??

Latest official (not beta) release is 4.6.420439 and it supports Amazon Music HD, Ultra HD on the WiiM Home app (Public preview).


You have to enable this feature in the amazon music settings.

 

Music1969

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MQA is kind of a benefit since a <100€ streamer can "provide" resolutions higher than 192.
Calling it benefit can be subjective.

The MQA decoding after the first unfold is just very slow, leaky minimum phase filter upsampling. There has been so much analysis of it in other threads, let's not get too deep here in WiiM thread.

Anyway a Raspberry Pi with paid Volumio OS can be a Tidal Connect streamer, doing exactly the same that you are doing and with USB connection to your DAC instead of TOSlink.

WiiM can do other things that RPi + Volumio can't of course
 
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Witterings

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Latest official (not beta) release is 4.6.420439 and it supports Amazon Music HD, Ultra HD on the WiiM Home app (Public preview).


You have to enable this feature in the amazon music settings.


Apologies .... my bad, I didn't make it clear, I actually menat casting from the Amazon App, looking at those notes they're all referring to usin the WiiM App so I'm guessing it's not available from the Amazon App.
 

AyGee

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Apologies .... my bad, I didn't make it clear, I actually menat casting from the Amazon App, looking at those notes they're all referring to usin the WiiM App so I'm guessing it's not available from the Amazon App.
Currently only with not official beta firmware (352 or 358).
 

Witterings

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Currently only with not official beta firmware (352 or 358).

Brilliant ... thanks for that, it was just in case I was missing something, I'll just bide my time as not unhappy with the quality at the moment but any uplift is always good.

I tried the WiiM App last night and I'm not a huge fan if I'm honest, it's the little things like if I'm using iOS, if I search for an artist, select individual albums and maybe put say 3 out of 6 in library, if I then click on the Artists tab within library it only shows the Artists who's albums I've added in there, click on the artist and you get only the albums I've saved.

I've also saved an awful lot of playlists which is literally thousands of artists, with the WiiM App if you click on Artists it also adds every artist from those playlists into the list making it huge and hard to find what you're actually looking for.

It's just a personal preference but I know which I prefer by a long way.
 

AyGee

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It's just a personal preference but I know which I prefer by a long way.
Yes, I see it the same way.

I've have the beta 358 since yesterday. I did not had the beta 352 before. So I don't know what's the difference there. I am new to the beta list.

I haven't found anything wrong with Amazon Music casting so far.
Other then:
Sometimes it takes a little while for a track to start playing after you have started it on the app.
Also, there is no gapless playback yet. So there are short breaks between the tracks. No matter if whole album or playlist.

These are known points and they will work on it to improve.
 

AyGee

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Another thing, related to the Amazon Music app (at least on android):
It is not showing the Sample Rate / Bit Depth information when you cast the music to a device.
You cannot click on the "Ultra HD" label in the app and see the information.
 

telemike

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Another thing, related to the Amazon Music app (at least on android):
It is not showing the Sample Rate / Bit Depth information when you cast the music to a device.
You cannot click on the "Ultra HD" label in the app and see the information.

That's how Amazon's app works on IOS and Android. Wiim has no control over that app. However, if you open the Wiim app while casting you will see what's playing with that information
 

Music1969

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Another thing, related to the Amazon Music app (at least on android):
It is not showing the Sample Rate / Bit Depth information when you cast the music to a device.
You cannot click on the "Ultra HD" label in the app and see the information.
Have you sent "Feedback" to Amazon through the Music app?

Have a read of this link below and just send them the link and ask them to improve casting by fixing these 4 things

At this link You will see what you mention and other problems with casting.

Amazon aren't reading this forum so we need to tell them, not just hope they figure it out.

https://www.amazonforum.com/s/question/0D56Q00009Gy5bqSAB/amazon-music-hd-casting-to-alexa-speakers-needs-4-major-improvements
 

Owis

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You used to be able to click on the UHD badge and it would at least give you track info > device limitations > casting info not available. Now (just recently) it’s become unresponsive when you press on it
 

thibodeaux

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That's how Amazon's app works on IOS and Android. Wiim has no control over that app. However, if you open the Wiim app while casting you will see what's playing with that information
I'm on Android with the latest beta (358) and when streaming from the Amazon app no sample rate/bit depth information is displayed in the WIIM app. Only the basic song information and the HD or Ultra HD badge shows.
 

AyGee

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I'm on Android with the latest beta (358) and when streaming from the Amazon app no sample rate/bit depth information is displayed in the WIIM app. Only the basic song information and the HD or Ultra HD badge shows.
Yes. Same here. This info is only availible, when not casting but playing directly via the wiim app.
 
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