WiiM Mini Streamer

[Ralph_Cramden]

It is called UPnP AV protocol and it supports everything including remote queue control / editing, etc. OpenHome UPnP extensions even support persistent queues and programmed playback. Unfortunately, companies prefer to reinvent the wheel and mostly come up with some odd designs, half-round/half-square and not very smooth running. I am not in the industry but I suspect companies do this to avoid paying for the UPnP licensing?

This is what the WiiM Home app uses to control the WiiM Mini, but the Amazon Music app doesn't directly connect to the Mini via UPnP; it's connected to a service somewhere in Amazon's cloud, which is in turn connected to the WiiM Mini, in a more secure way (via an API over https) than UPnP. I don't know the details, but perhaps there are issues with queue management with this arrangement.

 

[Bamyasi]

This is what the WiiM Home app uses to control the WiiM Mini, but the Amazon Music app doesn't directly connect to the Mini via UPnP; it's connected to a service somewhere in Amazon's cloud, which is in turn connected to the WiiM Mini, in a more secure way (via an API over https) than UPnP. I don't know the details, but perhaps there are issues with queue management with this arrangement.

That's what I was saying. Amazon servers do not use nor support UPnP so full functionality is not available to renderers (WiiM Mini). And Alexa is their proprietary reinvention which supposedly works better for their purposes. Easier to integrate with voice control maybe? Anyway, it lacks basic functionality streaming implementations had already standardized 15 years ago.

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

I think that UPnP is basically not secure, so can only be used in a LAN, behind the firewall. Spotify, Google, Amazon, Tidal all had to reinvent the wheel in a secure way, and each unfortunately went it alone.

 

[Bamyasi]

I think that UPnP is basically not secure, so can only be used in a LAN, behind the firewall. Spotify, Google, Amazon, Tidal all had to reinvent the wheel in a secure way, and each unfortunately went it alone.

This is a common misconception. UPnP protocol itself does not include authentication part but neither it precludes using any of the available popular mechanisms for that purpose, including URL-encoded authentication tokens for instance.

 

[Music1969]

Hi @Brantome

I've just signed up for family plan of Amazon Music UD. There is currently 4 months free !

So how can a family member cast from their Amazon Music account , to my registered WiiM Mini ?

Doesn't seem possible ?

 

[somebodyelse]

This is a common misconception. UPnP protocol itself does not include authentication part but neither it precludes using any of the available popular mechanisms for that purpose, including URL-encoded authentication tokens for instance.

Remember how bad UPnP interoperability was because there wasn't a requirement for a minimum set of features that everything supported, then think what it would be like for 'popular mechanisms' not even in the standard.
You're also missing the fact that they want control of the user experience, and they couldn't maintain that if they used an open standard.If they're not publishing an API there will be some licensing going on behind the scenes with terms we won't find out about.

 

[Brantome]

Hi @Brantome

I've just signed up for family plan of Amazon Music UD. There is currently 4 months free !

So how can a family member cast from their Amazon Music account , to my registered WiiM Mini ?

Doesn't seem possible ?

Nope, need to be on the same alexa account unfortunately. Not sure if it even works with the two adult accounts that you can link in an amazon household

 

[Music1969]

Nope, need to be on the same alexa account unfortunately. Not sure if it even works with the two adult accounts that you can link in an amazon household

Wowza

Same Alexa account but different Amazon Music account?

Or it only works with everything linked to one single account

 

[Witterings]

Hi @Brantome

I've just signed up for family plan of Amazon Music UD. There is currently 4 months free !

So how can a family member cast from their Amazon Music account , to my registered WiiM Mini ?

Doesn't seem possible ?

No not possible without logging out of Amazon on the WiiM and them logging in there with their account ... probably find it's the same with Spotify etc. as well.

My daughter uses Airplay to connect to it.

 

[Music1969]

No not possible without logging out of Amazon on the WiiM and them logging in there with their account ... probably find it's the same with Spotify etc. as well.

My daughter uses Airplay to connect to it.

would just need to logout of Alexa on the WiiM for casting right? Edit: yes, that all needed for casting to straight to WiiM. A few clicks but annoying. More steps are involved for casting to a group where an Echo Dot plays to WiiM.

Airplay so much more home friendly. I think Chromecast can allow it too.

Hopefully by the time my 4 month Amazon Family is up, there is hires Airplay and the WiiM can get an update. One can only dream

 

[Brantome]

No not possible without logging out of Amazon on the WiiM and them logging in there with their account ... probably find it's the same with Spotify etc. as well.

My daughter uses Airplay to connect to it.

You’d need to, in effect, re register the WiiM to the alexa account associated with the other amazon music account. Spotify isn’t the same - in fact, that’s how Spotify family users are normally advised to get round Spotify’ constraint of only one stream per account in a multi user Alexa/echo setup I.e. cast from their phone to an echo on the same wifi.

What families tend to do in an Alexa environment is designate one main account as Alexa’s account and share playlists etc to that account from individual phone music accounts - at least Amazon Music family allows multiple streams per account so everyone can use their own echo at the same time, albeit playing music or shared playlists from “Alexa’s account”.
Like streaming services in general, they all have their plusses and minusses depending on your own particular needs.

 

[Brantome]

would just need to logout of Alexa on the WiiM for casting right? Edit: yes, that all needed for casting to straight to WiiM. A few clicks but annoying. More steps are involved for casting to a group where an Echo Dot plays to WiiM.

Airplay so much more home friendly. I think Chromecast can allow it too.

Hopefully by the time my 4 month Amazon Family is up, there is hires Airplay and the WiiM can get an update. One can only dream

Yeah, airplay and Chromecast are much more device agnostic in that respect, maybe because they’re not associated with an account. An Alexa account largely “owns” echo and Alexa enabled devices and also associated music subscriptions (one of each kind per Alexa account e.g. Amazon Music, Spotify etc, but not multiples of the same kind), and only devices in that account can use its subscriptions and vice versa. To be honest, an Alexa account really lacks proper profiles that can own or link to their own resources - it’s much the same with smart home devices where, by and large, only echos in the main Alexa account can directly control them, even in an Amazon household (which is a linked pair of adult accounts).

 

[Music1969]

Yeah, airplay and Chromecast are much more device agnostic in that respect, maybe because they’re not associated with an account. An Alexa account largely “owns” echo and Alexa enabled devices and also associated music subscriptions (one of each kind per Alexa account e.g. Amazon Music, Spotify etc, but not multiples of the same kind), and only devices in that account can use its subscriptions and vice versa. To be honest, an Alexa account really lacks proper profiles that can own or link to their own resources - it’s much the same with smart home devices where, by and large, only echos in the main Alexa account can directly control them, even in an Amazon household (which is a linked part of adult accounts).

Yep like we've both said, they all have pro's and con's

For all the cons, I'm really enjoying casting up to 192kHz bit perfectly, with no 3rd party app and no cables attached to my iPad, A first among the big streaming services, not just a first for Amazon Music UHD

And @Ralph_Cramden 's super cool display thingy showing me the important stuff of 'now playing'

 

[Brantome]

Yep like we've both said, they all have pro's and con's

For all the cons, I'm really enjoying casting up to 192kHz bit perfectly, with no 3rd party app and no cables attached to my iPad, A first among the big streaming services, not just a first for Amazon Music UHD

And @Ralph_Cramden 's super cool display thingy showing me the important stuff of 'now playing'

Yeah, a web interface to WiiM would be nice too for the times I'm on the PC and not my Ipad or phone...

 

[Witterings]

Yeah, a web interface to WiiM would be nice too for the times I'm on the PC and not my Ipad or phone...

That would be good although personally I'd still prefer a casting option from the Amazon App on a PC rather than using my Bluestack Hack.

 

[Brantome]

That would be good although personally I'd still prefer a casting option from the Amazon App on a PC rather than using my Bluestack Hack.

Yeah, the ways of Amazon when it comes to their Amazon Music app are indeed weird and not that wonderful - the desktop app isn’t like their mobile app which isn’t like their fire tv app etc etc. Their desktop Alexa app has been adding functionality of late, so maybe they might turn their attention to the desktop music app and integrate AlexaCast there as well...

 

[Jpdelaney.tml]

Me too on 352...

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

Yeah, a web interface to WiiM would be nice too for the times I'm on the PC and not my Ipad or phone...

A nice way to do that is LMS, with the Material Skin. Bit-perfect, full queue management, plenty of music sources, bios and album reviews. The poor man's Roon. No Amazon Music, tho...

 

[Brantome]

A nice way to do that is LMS, with the Material Skin. Bit-perfect, full queue management, plenty of music sources, bios and album reviews. The poor man's Roon. No Amazon Music, tho...

Thanks, been meaning to have a look at that

 

[Acerun]

I'm seeing some songs showing 24/44.1 on the WiiM Amazon app, but only playing 16/44.1 on my RME.