WiiM Mini Review (Streamer)

[tsammyc]

Same thing with Tidal for me. From an iPhone through Tidal Connect, it is not as good as from the WiiM app. Not sure why this should be since Tidal Connect should be using WiiM’s internal Tidal streamer. I’m not using the internal DAC, but passing to an external DAC.

 

[telemike]

I can't say I notice a difference with Tidal Connect. I have noticed that in a long listening session my iPhone Tidal App disconnects from what's playing after some time and I have to go the Wiim app to control things or reconnect the Tidal app to the wiim. The music stream keeps playing.

 

[Owis]

There are layers of history and complexity around Amazon Music and Amazon Music HD that my tired brain can’t tackle tonight - suffice it to say that developing and gaining certification for a third party implementation of the lossless 16 & 24 bit Amazon Music HD service is a steep climb…

I can stream Amazon HD to my $350 AVR via PlayFi. I have this Wiim in my cart ready to add to my 2CH Amp/DAC when they get it working

 

[Brantome]

I can stream Amazon HD to my $350 AVR via PlayFi. I have this Wiim in my cart ready to add to my 2CH Amp/DAC when they get it working.

I didn’t say it can’t be done, as it has been by much bigger players like Denon/Marantz/Heos, Yamaha, Bluesound and those who use Playfi, just that it’s not an easy task to provide it. The HEOS app, for example, is execrable and their implementation feature poor and bug ridden despite having been available for a few years, so even for the big guys, it’s not easy. I’m sure I’ve read criticism of the Playfi implementation too. Only time will tell if WiiM can pull it off in the short timescales they’re targeting - I hope they do, but I won’t be surprised if they don’t and they end up taking a lot longer.

 

[amper42]

I didn’t say it can’t be done, as it has been by much bigger players like Denon/Marantz/Heos, Yamaha, Bluesound and those who use Playfi, just that it’s not an easy task to provide it. The HEOS app, for example, is execrable and their implementation feature poor and bug ridden despite having been available for a few years, so even for the big guys, it’s not easy. I’m sure I’ve read criticism of the Playfi implementation too. Only time will tell if WiiM can pull it off in the short timescales they’re targeting - I hope they do, but I won’t be surprised if they don’t and they end up taking a lot longer.

Maybe MASI will buy the Wiim code so they can finally build a decent HEOS app that supports Qobuz and doesn't suck. lol

 

[serious]

I’m not sure what you mean by 1., particularly by ‘streaming airplay inside the WiiM app’ - could you please expand on the steps you took to do this? To me, the WiiM device is an Airplay target you choose from your source app, and I can’t see where you could choose to stream Airplay within the WiiM app. I’m confused…

Yeah, you start playing the song in Apple Music. The Wiim is selected as the target. Then you open the Wiim app. Irrespective of if the song is playing or paused, inside the Wiim App you will see the same track playing with cover art and controls.

Hitting play from within the Wiim app sounds WAY better. But you have to cue up the song via Apple Music first.

Someone needs to explain to me why this is, or if there is a fix coming. Because with the above method, you have to juggle apps.

 

[telemike]

Yeah, you start playing the song in Apple Music. The Wiim is selected as the target. Then you open the Wiim app. Irrespective of if the song is playing or paused, inside the Wiim App you will see the same track playing with cover art and controls.

Hitting play from within the Wiim app sounds WAY better. But you have to cue up the song via Apple Music first.

Someone needs to explain to me why this is, or if there is a fix coming. Because with the above method, you have to juggle apps.

once you are in the app put phone in airplane mode and see if music still plays

 

[nothingman]

What possible explanation would there be for a major sound quality improvement on both Apple Music using Airplay and also with Tidal Connect, which are two very different methods of data transfer? Consider me skeptical that starting a song in Apple Music or Tidal Connect, then opening the WiiM app and hitting pause/play could have any effect. @WiiM Support does any of this sound remotely possible?

 

[Atanasi]

Yeah, you start playing the song in Apple Music. The Wiim is selected as the target. Then you open the Wiim app. Irrespective of if the song is playing or paused, inside the Wiim App you will see the same track playing with cover art and controls.

Hitting play from within the Wiim app sounds WAY better. But you have to cue up the song via Apple Music first.

Someone with the ability to record Toslink could capture the output and compare.

 

[flz]

Yeah, you start playing the song in Apple Music. The Wiim is selected as the target. Then you open the Wiim app. Irrespective of if the song is playing or paused, inside the Wiim App you will see the same track playing with cover art and controls.

Hitting play from within the Wiim app sounds WAY better. But you have to cue up the song via Apple Music first.

Someone needs to explain to me why this is, or if there is a fix coming. Because with the above method, you have to juggle apps.

I've done the same comparison. It sounds exactly the same to me. No difference at all.

 

[morillon]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Mini Wifi/Bluetooth streamer. It is on kind loan from a member and is on sale on Amazon for US $89.

View attachment 200172

As you can see the former factor is a "hockey puck." An included phone charger needs to be used to power the unit over USB-C. It did not work so when I used my computer USB port.

Initial setup is by connecting using Bluetooth and the available App. I connected using BT but the Android app would not see it. I had to shut off BT and turn it back on for it to recognize it. While this is disappointing, I have had similar issues with other streamers. Once there, the app was reliable and gave me the option of configuring Toslink output for bit exact and its maximum sample rate which I appreciated. It also updated the device on first connection.

WiiM Mini Measurements
My first tests were using Aiplay 2.0 as initiated by my Roon player. As usual, Airplay itself becomes the bottleneck as we see with Toslink digital out:
View attachment 200173

Not sure if Airplay forced the sample rate to change to 48 kHz or the device did it. Using it with analog out we get:
View attachment 200174

While we are beating the company spec, performance is lackluster as is typically the case in this category of product. Noise performance is not great either:

View attachment 200175

There is however good news if you use the App and output over Toslink:

View attachment 200176

This is the best you can do with 24-bit dithered signal. At 141 dB, your limit then will be what your DAC can do as even state of the are units have a SINAD of 123 dB.

Using the same signal but now testing the analog output we get:
View attachment 200177

So just a hair better than using Airplay. The internal DAC as expected, is a mass market product than high performance.

Using the same for jitter we have:
View attachment 200178

Noise floor is fairly high which can hide a lot of sins.

Since my analyzer can't control streaming devices, these are all the tests I can reasonably run. I think we have a good picture though.

Edit: by request, here is the frequency response from the internal DAC:

View attachment 200372

Edit WiiM Mini ADC Analog In Measurements
Feeding the Mini analog input and capturing the same, gives this output:
View attachment 200375

Performance is dominated by distortion. Switching to Toslink out to eliminate effect of the DAC we basically get the same result:

View attachment 200376

So just like the DAC, this is a mass market ADC implementation. Good enough for common uses though but I would not route the clean output of any DAC through it.

Conclusions
If you use the App and Toslink output, you basically have a transparent wireless link to your stereo. Connect it to your favorite DAC and your performance will only be limited by the rest of your system. For me personally lack of Roon support is a big deal. I don't want to use their App to play or stream content. I hope the company looks at supporting Roon endpoint. Analog output of the unit is just OK.

Personally I can't recommend the WiiM Mini due to lack of support for Roon player. That aside, it is great to see bit exact digital output in a budget streamer allowing you to improve its performance to any level you want using your own DAC.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

good morning
is it normal, classic, a decorrelation, between a sinad "top" and a j-test described as "noisy"
?
limitation of toslink vs usb spdif aes with j-test?

thank you

 

[Elmar.F]

Received the WiiM today, instantly set it up and streamed Tidal controlled by the WIIM Home app on my Android phone. So far, very good sound without stuttering issues.

My current signal chain: WiiM Mini -> RME ADI-2 --> Sabaj A8 (bridged) --> Castle Richmond IV

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

Received the WiiM today, instantly set it up and streamed Tidal controlled by the WIIM Home app on my Android phone. So far, very good sound without stuttering issues.

My current signal chain: WiiM Mini -> RME ADI-2 --> Sabaj A8 (bridged) --> Castle Richmond IV

Yes, that's the allure of this little device - plug 'n' play your way to bit-perfect, CD rate (or higher) streaming from Tidal or Qobuz, and eventually other services. For the millions who would never consider setting up a Raspberry Pi (not to mention try to get a Pi right now) or Roon. It's going to give Bluesound and Sonos some real competition. Good.

 

[morillon]

excuse my ignorance.. I imagine this is a very familiar topic but why in 5g wifi and not 2.4 the audio quality will be better or even softer listening? our even hd audio bit rates are not that important....(?)
(improves the jitter can be a little the weakness of this modest wiim? possible improvements a little on the firmware side?)
thank you
n
ps
may be more the sense of a forum like here to share on the technical aspect...?
improveable or not? sound? wifi connection? etc
correlation measurements listening etc?
than to list the problems of "computer" types which will be a bottomless pit.. ?
;-)

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Granted music is fine running 2.4, as speed is not necessary, but what is necessary is stability and lack of interference. 2.4 has better penetration, travels further, but also can’t be subject to much more interference due to its ability to travel further your neighbors routers signals may also be visiting your home. Other devices also use that band such as baby monitors, garage door openers and older cordless phones. If you are within a good distance to the 5 GHz band and get a stable signal it is a better choice oftentimes. Now if you live in a rural area and there is nobody near you then this becomes moot. Or maybe Moose?

 

[morillon]

thank you
I see the interest of 5g in "penetration" and therefore on the stability of wifi etc.
but it is the precise remark on the impact on the sound that surprised me a little ...
"smooth..."
;-)

 

[threni]

thank you
I see the interest of 5g in "penetration" and therefore on the stability of wifi etc.
but it is the precise remark on the impact on the sound that surprised me a little ...
"smooth..."
;-)

I guess 5G is faster so the bits arrive at their destination more quickly and have time to settle down before they're needed and are less jittery?

 

[morillon]

I don't know....
will be funny to observe if there are differences in j-test in 2.4 or 5g?
a little be a little thing to dig?
the tests of amirm carried out in what frequency of wifi?
;-)

 

[threni]

I don't know....
will be funny to observe if there are differences in j-test in 2.4 or 5g?
a little be a little thing to dig?
the tests of amirm carried out in what frequency of wifi?

And which WIFI channel he used - no, you're right, it's an important question; I'm surprised he didn't mention it.

 

[morillon]

I only ask a few questions ...for understand ... :-0
has mr amirm:
is it common to observe such a powerful sinad at 1k but a rather disappointing j-test?
would a difference, even if upstream, in wifi frequency protocol in certain cases not influence the results in particular in j-test?
possible to the extent and as a precaution, to check it quickly each time?
impact of the toslink with j-test?( which has never had good press among audiophiles.. but has come back strong on streamers etc..)
(ps
the small harman also seems to offer a very good sinad in optic at 1k.. but you don't give a j-test measurement.. could have been interesting ;-) )

to the people working for this wiim who read us:
do you have any answers to these questions?
maybe there is firmware side to dig that will explain these results? to interview your experts?
can be something to study on the firmware side which could improve the little wiim on the jitter side which it seems to me is quite high... even if we know that a consumer product...?
a little challenge....
;-)
sorry for my """""""english"""""