Wiim announce WiiM Amp Ultra

[amarsicola]

Wiim also announced an active sub.

I think loudspeaker manufacturers should start to get seriously scared now.

 

[Matt_Holland]

I think loudspeaker manufacturers should start to get seriously scared now.

I hope the price/performance ratio of the sub is as disruptive as their other products.

 

[bogart]

@ZinMe I would say the Ultra will provide no real advantage for your setup and the Amp Pro will work very well.

I'm using the WiiM Amp with KEF 8" Ceiling speakers today. Although I don't often turn it up to Optimal Volume Levels, it produces more than enough SPL for my kitchen!

 

[Ropeburn]

Hmm. As good as it seems, it's still not a Wiim Amp (Pro, or Vibelink) and Ultra in one. There's missing features on one, but significant overlap on the other hand.

My best guess is they don't want to make two previous products obsolete at once, which sounds reasonable from a product and company policy perspective, but not so much from the consumer's.

Obligatory pisstake: it's the year 2035, Wiim proudly presents the Super Street Fighter Amp Ultra Plus II Turbo Max Deluxe Alpha: Championship PFBTFFTLBL Edition

 

[Matt_Holland]

Hmm. As good as it seems, it's still not a Wiim Amp (Pro, or Vibelink) and Ultra in one. There's missing features on one, but significant overlap on the other hand.

My best guess is they don't want to make two previous products obsolete at once, which sounds reasonable from a product and company policy perspective, but not so much from the consumer's.

It makes perfect sense that the Wiim amp ultra doesn’t have as many features as the Ultra.

 

[Ropeburn]

It makes perfect sense that the Wiim amp ultra doesn’t have as many features as the Ultra.

Yes it does, from a product policy view. Maybe I'm expecting too much: there's the Ultra (very nice with just about everything you could wish for; proper subwoofer management and room correction and phono preamp? Yes plz), and now there's the "Ultra" Amp - and I'm inevitably thinking: an Ultra with an amp! But it isn't. And thus I'm like, yeah meh, another incomplete product.

Of course that disappointment only comes from my misguided expectations, I'm fully aware. Still, it's a very obvious train of thought.

And LDAC or at least aptX is still missing, it seems. That's a biggie for my personal use case, because the phone is my source/player, and a fully transparent hasslefree wireless connection like that that works with everything is very convenient.

 

[kyuu]

Yes it does, from a product policy view. Maybe I'm expecting too much: there's the Ultra (very nice with just about everything you could wish for; proper subwoofer management and room correction and phono preamp? Yes plz), and now there's the "Ultra" Amp - and I'm inevitably thinking: an Ultra with an amp! But it isn't. And thus I'm like, yeah meh, another incomplete product.

What is the Amp Ultra missing, exactly, relative to the Ultra beyond the phono connection (big who cares for me, but obviously others may disagree)?

And LDAC or at least aptX is still missing, it seems. That's a biggie for my personal use case, because the phone is my source/player, and a fully transparent hasslefree wireless connection like that that works with everything is very convenient.

Why use your phone as the source via Bluetooth when you have literally any other option available?

 

[Ropeburn]

What is the Amp Ultra missing, exactly, relative to the Ultra beyond the phono connection (big who cares for me, but obviously others may disagree)?

Why use your phone as the source via Bluetooth when you have literally any other option available?

But do I? It's the only computer in this household, and I'm sharing WLAN with a neighbour, so that's out. I admit it's a rather fringe scenario, but one that most other devices solve by simply supporting LDAC. And I'm not going to run a long arse USB cable from my couch to the DAC on the desk.

 

[kyuu]

But do I? It's the only computer in this household, and I'm sharing WLAN with a neighbour, so that's out. I admit it's a rather fringe scenario, but one that most other devices solve by simply supporting LDAC. And I'm not going to run a long arse USB cable from my couch to the DAC on the desk.

I'm a little confused on this scenario. You're sharing WLAN with a neighbor so... what's out, exactly? Connecting the streamer to it? Why would that be an issue but having your phone on it isn't?

I suppose if you basically don't have a local network, then Bluetooth might be your only convenient option, sure. Although I wouldn't suggest even purchasing a Wiim in that scenario. Asides from the Vibelink, they're all designed to live on a network.

 

[kauffman]

The price would be like 699€ you think?

649$
749-799€
700£

my prediction

 

[fuzzy_logic]

The wireless sub is of most interest to me. It means i can sell my Sonos Amp and sub, replace them with Wiim Amp and sub, and probably make a tidy profit in the process.

 

[rsc1]

I can’t wait for this to review with terrific data and then watch the internet proclaim how it sounds thin and lacking instrumental separation, etc, etc compared to ANYTHING more expensive.

Spot on.

As an experiment, someone should build a very fancy looking, but absolutely horribly measuring amplifier, call it Exquisite Nirvana or something, advertise a $3999 price, send it out to those subjective reviewers and watch them praise it just to prove how untrustworthy their "golden" ears really are. They're probably (I hope?) not consciously trying to deceive people, but the fact that they think their hearing is so special, paired with the fact that they make money off of influencing honest people's buying decisions to more expensive (often objectively worse) equipment rubs me the wrong way. Good job WiiM, for making cool stuff that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

 

[aagstn]

Spot on.

As an experiment, someone should build a very fancy looking, but absolutely horribly measuring amplifier, call it Exquisite Nirvana or something, advertise a $3999 price, send it out to those subjective reviewers and watch them praise it just to prove how untrustworthy their "golden" ears really are. They're probably (I hope?) not consciously trying to deceive people, but the fact that they think their hearing is so special, paired with the fact that they make money off of influencing honest people's buying decisions to more expensive (often objectively worse) equipment rubs me the wrong way. Good job WiiM, for making cool stuff that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

These types of reviews have happened many times. I have seen crazy praise for multi thousand dollar products from companies like PSAudio that end up having a ton of noise and distortion. Sorry, I mean they have superior soundstage, airiness, and lush detail.

 

[qirex]

Nearly all audiophile reviews of cheap (relatively speaking) gear have the exact same format:

1. Talk about what a bargain it is
2. Compare it favorably against something that is 1.5-2x its price
3. Compare it unfavorably against something 2-10x its price
4. Conclude that it sounds good, but not as good as the best stuff

As an experiment, someone should build a very fancy looking, but absolutely horribly measuring amplifier, call it Exquisite Nirvana or something, advertise a $3999 price, send it out to those subjective reviewers and watch them praise it just to prove how untrustworthy their "golden" ears really are. They're probably (I hope?) not consciously trying to deceive people, but the fact that they think their hearing is so special, paired with the fact that they make money off of influencing honest people's buying decisions to more expensive (often objectively worse) equipment rubs me the wrong way. Good job WiiM, for making cool stuff that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

IMO the best story about this kind of thing is when they do "A/B" tests where they don't actually switch anything and people always hear a difference. It's happened multiple times and expectation bias is a pretty common human perceptual phenomenon, like people have described two samples of milk as tasting different when they subtly change the lighting in the room.

 

[Matt_Holland]

Nearly all audiophile reviews of cheap (relatively speaking) gear have the exact same format:

1. Talk about what a bargain it is
2. Compare it favorably against something that is 1.5-2x its price
3. Compare it unfavorably against something 2-10x its price
4. Conclude that it sounds good, but not as good as the best stuff

You’ve just summarised the format of every Cheap Audio Man video.

You’re 100% correct. It’s how any good reviewer generates good advertising revenue without upsetting any brands.

 

[Burnside]

The Wiim Fanatics Facebook group is obsessed with not only handing off the Ultra to a DAC, but doing this via USB into a DDC (usually SMSL PO100) and then to said DAC. They’re a crazy bunch. Well some of them anyway.

Yeah, some. I’m not

 

[mmmargherita]

Yes it does, from a product policy view. Maybe I'm expecting too much: there's the Ultra (very nice with just about everything you could wish for; proper subwoofer management and room correction and phono preamp? Yes plz), and now there's the "Ultra" Amp - and I'm inevitably thinking: an Ultra with an amp! But it isn't. And thus I'm like, yeah meh, another incomplete product.

Of course that disappointment only comes from my misguided expectations, I'm fully aware. Still, it's a very obvious train of thought.

And LDAC or at least aptX is still missing, it seems. That's a biggie for my personal use case, because the phone is my source/player, and a fully transparent hasslefree wireless connection like that that works with everything is very convenient.

WHat features is it actually lacking? I don't see it. Phono preamp sure, but as someone points out, most TTs have built in now, especially at a pricepoint commensurate with the amp. It's still got bass management, DSP, streaming, digital ins if you really need a CD player too, a TV connection. People complain "ohh it doesn't have the features I need" well, they've included more than enough features for 95% users - and more features means more cost, and then people complain it's too expenive. I think the Wiim ultra looks like the perfect package

 

[mmmargherita]

But do I? It's the only computer in this household, and I'm sharing WLAN with a neighbour, so that's out. I admit it's a rather fringe scenario, but one that most other devices solve by simply supporting LDAC. And I'm not going to run a long arse USB cable from my couch to the DAC on the desk.

Yeah, why spend on a wiim, whose whole thing is being a streaming amp, when you just want bt? Just get like, a fosi amp with a bt receiver built in or something? Your case is fringe AF and not relevant

 

[mmmargherita]

Spot on.

As an experiment, someone should build a very fancy looking, but absolutely horribly measuring amplifier, call it Exquisite Nirvana or something, advertise a $3999 price, send it out to those subjective reviewers and watch them praise it just to prove how untrustworthy their "golden" ears really are. They're probably (I hope?) not consciously trying to deceive people, but the fact that they think their hearing is so special, paired with the fact that they make money off of influencing honest people's buying decisions to more expensive (often objectively worse) equipment rubs me the wrong way. Good job WiiM, for making cool stuff that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Well said!

 

[obsessive9119]

IMO the best story about this kind of thing is when they do "A/B" tests where they don't actually switch anything and people always hear a difference. It's happened multiple times and expectation bias is a pretty common human perceptual phenomenon, like people have described two samples of milk as tasting different when they subtly change the lighting in the room.

Want to know something embarassing? I did this to myself last week.

I was playing around with DSP settings, toggling an AU Lab plugin on and off to see if I liked the change. I definitely did - it was a noticeable improvement.

Then I opened the plugin itself and realised it had been disabled the whole time - toggling on and off had been doing nothing. I went back and tried it again, and sure enough now I couldn’t hear a difference.

Brains are weird things.