WiiM Amp Ultra Streaming Amplifier

[harkpabst]

To my certain knowledge the MFI agreement does not allow AirPlay transmit functionality, they implemented that therefore they must have violated the agreement.

If your knowledge is that certain, how could Sonos acquire a license to transmit AirPlay? Your theory is as good or bad as any other.

I (and many others) have made a sensible an rational judgement I prefer the Apple ecosystem to other ecosystems if you cannot cope with or comprehend that then that is your problem.

You can make whatever judgement you want, I don't care. If you have a problem with WiiM not supporting one single proprietary protocol from your favorite ecosystem (while supporting countless other open and proprietary standards) that's entirely your problem.

Obviously, you can put any quality of audio through it within its specifications so you could put “Bluetooth quality“ audio through Wi-Fi and it would be the same except with better coverage and stability. If anyone who’s ever tried to transfer a file over Bluetooth instead of Wi-Fi knows the limitations quite readily.

No, that's missing the point. AirPlay 2 is restricted to 256 kbps AAC in most instances, regardless of Wi-Fi bandwidth. Also, all traffic goes through the iDevice initiating the transmission, which is eating up much of the benefits. The most current Bluetooth codecs (which btw. WiiM don't support) like e.g. aptX Lossless, LDAC, or even LC3 support higher data rates and higher resolutions than AirPlay 2.

Yet, my point is not that Bluetooth would be superior to AirPlay 2. But it is an alternative.

For me, I have a lot of Apple devices and having AirPlay built-in is convenient, which makes it an important feature for me. So because of that, the Wiim not having it is a dealbreaker.

It's your choice and it's fine.

If someone has invested in a Sonos ecosystem or a Wiim ecosystem then they are going to seek out devices that work well within that sphere and avoid products that are not.

Pretty much the only WiiM functions that requires something you could call an "ecosystem" is multiroom and surround sound pairing (and even multiroom works with some other devices using LinkPlay modules). Everything else is about supporting existing standards. They don't even enforce you to create an account with them.

If you don't like what WiiM has to offer, don't buy WiiM. It's as easy as that.

 

[Audio Science Pal]

I have a WiiM Ultra and separate power amp. Works good for me. I would happily recommend the WiiM Ultra w/Amp for someone wanting a compact system.

 

[chelgrian]

If your knowledge is that certain, how could Sonos acquire a license to transmit AirPlay? Your theory is as good or bad as any other.


You can make whatever judgement you want, I don't care. If you have a problem with WiiM not supporting one single proprietary protocol from your favorite ecosystem (while supporting countless other open and proprietary standards) that's entirely your problem.


No, that's missing the point. AirPlay 2 is restricted to 256 kbps AAC in most instances, regardless of Wi-Fi bandwidth. Also, all traffic goes through the iDevice initiating the transmission, which is eating up much of the benefits. The most current Bluetooth codecs (which btw. WiiM don't support) like e.g. aptX Lossless, LDAC, or even LC3 support higher data rates and higher resolutions than AirPlay 2.

Yet, my point is not that Bluetooth would be superior to AirPlay 2. But it is an alternative.


It's your choice and it's fine.


Pretty much the only WiiM functions that requires something you could call an "ecosystem" is multiroom and surround sound pairing (and even multiroom works with some other devices using LinkPlay modules). Everything else is about supporting existing standards. They don't even enforce you to create an account with them.

If you don't like what WiiM has to offer, don't buy WiiM. It's as easy as that.

Sonos cannot transmit AirPlay to another AirPlay receiver. What it can do is have a single Sonos product act as an AirPlay receiver then distribute that across the Sonos network (which is really a proprietary UPNP variant) that is not the same.

As you rightly point out WiiM do not license LDAC from Sony or AptX from Qualcomm both of which are equally as proprietary as AirPlay. They would need to license AAC from Via LA which while open source implementations exist requires patent licenses to actually bring a product to market. The SBC patents have all now expired but even when they were active you got a free license along with Bluetooth itself to encourage adoption.

As an actual vendor of WiiM products pointed out upthread not supporting these things *is* costing them sales.

 

[amirm]

This is from Wiim: "Bluetooth offers a high-quality alternative for streaming from Apple Music, SiriusXM, or any other app not integrated into the WiiM system. Bluetooth on WiiM Ultra supports 256kbps AAC lossy audio, which is the same quality that AirPlay delivers."

AAC sucks on Bluetooth. This is both subjectively and objectively.

 

[amirm]

They would need to license AAC from Via LA which while open source implementations exist requires patent licenses to actually bring a product to market.

The patents for standard AAC and Low Complexity used in Bluetooth streaming have all expired.

 

[audioje]

This is the very gadget for most people wth a set of passive speakers. As a current wiim user, this will be my next purchase for sure.

 

[SoundMagic]

AirPlay isn't magically better just because it uses Wi-Fi.

How would you as a non Apple user know? Can you pick a audio or video and instantly cast it to any Airplay or multiple device in the network? Is that possible with Bluetooth?

 

[OldTimer]

Can get 10 meters USB C cable for cheap than bluetooth connection. So, what’s the point using bluetooth connection? Both are 10 meters range, cannot multiroom, etc. Please don’t offer bluetooth option as airplay replacement. Do you think I’m stupid?

 

[chelgrian]

The patents for standard AAC and Low Complexity used in Bluetooth streaming have all expired.

There’s at least one patent around HE profiles that doesn’t expire until 2028 however those profiles are optional in A2DP so they could avoid needing the Via license by only implementing the mandatory LC profile.

 

[Bacchusoo7]

AirPlay 2 is restricted to 256 kbps AAC in most instances, regardless of Wi-Fi bandwidth. Also, all traffic goes through the iDevice initiating the transmission, which is eating up much of the benefits. The most current Bluetooth codecs (which btw. WiiM don't support) like e.g. aptX Lossless, LDAC, or even LC3 support higher data rates and higher resolutions than AirPlay 2.

Yet, my point is not that Bluetooth would be superior to AirPlay 2. But it is an alternative.

As I type this I am streaming Lossless 44.1 16-bit ALAC from my iPhone to three separate device simultaneously through Airplay. I have no way of independently confirming that each device is receiving that, but as Apple Music changes formats contextually (Atmos for AirPods or AAC for non-WIFI streaming (like in the car), etc.) I presume it to be correct.

Nothing against Bluetooth, but my experience with it has been workable at best. It's fine in my car but if I can do better, I'd rather. That said, I haven't tried all of the codecs, I've been told some of them are pretty good. Though, from what I've found compatiibily/support is spotty (Like you said WiiM doesn't support them either)

 

[Burnside]

As I type this I am streaming Lossless 44.1 16-bit ALAC from my iPhone to three separate device simultaneously through Airplay. I have no way of independently confirming that each device is receiving that, but as Apple Music changes formats contextually (Atmos for AirPods or AAC for non-WIFI streaming (like in the car), etc.) I presume it to be correct.

Nothing against Bluetooth, but my experience with it has been workable at best. It's fine in my car but if I can do better, I'd rather. That said, I haven't tried all of the codecs, I've been told some of them are pretty good. Though, from what I've found compatiibily/support is spotty (Like you said WiiM doesn't support them either)

Apple Music only sends 256kbps AAC over AirPlay 2 from iOS as per the following link. A certain J Darko has also published several articles on this matter. HomePods, of course, being native Apple devices may differ, but how would we know short of measuring the actual network traffic?

Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay

Earlier this month I dug into Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res offerings, running several bit perfect rests on the audio output of my Macs and iOS devices. The results were less than stellar (link). This week I dug into Apple Music lossless over AirPlay. One would think that the results would be...

audiophilestyle.com

 

[HalSF]

All this posting about AirPlay and Bluetooth is interesting but it’s having the effect of wildly exaggerating the importance of wireless playback for a device whose strengths are overwhelmingly about superb wired hi-fi performance. Amir doesn’t even mention wireless in his review posts at the top of this thread.

 

[Bacchusoo7]

Apple Music only sends 256kbps AAC over AirPlay 2 from iOS as per the following link. A certain J Darko has also published several articles on this matter. HomePods, of course, being native Apple devices may differ, but how would we know short of measuring the actual network traffic?

Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay

Earlier this month I dug into Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res offerings, running several bit perfect rests on the audio output of my Macs and iOS devices. The results were less than stellar (link). This week I dug into Apple Music lossless over AirPlay. One would think that the results would be...

audiophilestyle.com

Interesting stuff. As it's five years old, it's difficult to know if it continues to be accurate. I knew the airport expresses were good at streaming, it's a shame they don't make them anymore.

 

[Burnside]

Interesting stuff. As it's five years old, it's difficult to know if it continues to be accurate. I knew the airport expresses were good at streaming, it's a shame they don't make them anymore.

I haven’t seen evidence to the contrary, nor that Apple have changed anything in that area. I think Darco’s articles are more recent, but in respect of AirPlay 2 say largely the same thing e.g. https://darko.audio/2024/06/lossless-airplay-updates-from-roon-tidal-and-ropieee/

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

Interesting stuff. As it's five years old, it's difficult to know if it continues to be accurate. I knew the airport expresses were good at streaming, it's a shame they don't make them anymore.

FiiO SR11 does AirPlay (1, lossless), and has optical output, so it can feed optical in on the WiiM.

 

[The French]

All this posting about AirPlay and Bluetooth is interesting but it’s having the effect of wildly exaggerating the importance of wireless playback for a device whose strengths are overwhelmingly about superb wired hi-fi performance. Amir doesn’t even mention wireless in his review posts at the top of this thread.

I do agree on the exagerated thing, but people tends to use wireless more and more, and it has become crucial for some users.

I've an android phone, and my sole and only way to listen to music is through the Chromecast system.
I would not buy a product on which I could not send lossless music to, through my phone.

 

[obsessive9119]

I've an android phone, and my sole and only way to listen to music is through the Chromecast system.
I would not buy a product on which I could not send lossless music to, through my phone.

But if you had a streamer like the WiiM, you wouldn’t need to use Chromecast for music… that’s the whole point.

I do agree the lack of AirPlay is annoying - it’s a useful way for other people in the house to put music on without learning my latest crazy set up.

 

[kyuu]

The JBL AVR tested miserably.

Utter nonsense. It wasn't amazing, but "tested miserably" is either ridiculous hyperbole or a failure to understand the measurements. It's audibly transparent for most intense and purposes. I doubt you or anyone could tell it apart from any other amp in a blind listening test unless you had some seriously sensitive speakers where you might hear some hiss during quiet passages if you were pretty close to the tweeter.

 

[Burnside]

But if you had a streamer like the WiiM, you wouldn’t need to use Chromecast for music… that’s the whole point.

I do agree the lack of AirPlay is annoying - it’s a useful way for other people in the house to put music on without learning my latest crazy set up.

If you have a NAS or server in your latest crazy setup, AirConnect might help get round that by presenting the WiiM as an airplay 1 endpoint e.g. https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/...-sonos-chromecast-players-using-airplay.4644/

 

[kyuu]

I don't know why the obsession with Airplay. The Wiim is on your network. There are multiple other options for playing over the network regardless of what service or local storage you are playing the content from.