WiiM Amp Ultra Streaming Amplifier

[Burnside]

THE ONLY LOSSLESS Airplay2 is using Apple Homepod as streamer.

Not strictly true - Apple Music can be delivered at lossless CD quality from a Mac when the system wide AirPlay device is set, or for example, when airplaying from Qobuz.

Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay

Earlier this month I dug into Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res offerings, running several bit perfect rests on the audio output of my Macs and iOS devices. The results were less than stellar (link). This week I dug into Apple Music lossless over AirPlay. One would think that the results would be...

audiophilestyle.com

 

[OldTimer]

Not strictly true - Apple Music can be delivered at lossless CD quality from a Mac when the system wide AirPlay device is set, or for example, when airplaying from Qobuz.

Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay

Earlier this month I dug into Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res offerings, running several bit perfect rests on the audio output of my Macs and iOS devices. The results were less than stellar (link). This week I dug into Apple Music lossless over AirPlay. One would think that the results would be...

audiophilestyle.com

That’s still 16bit/44.1Khz. Apple Homepod stream to AirPlay2 receiver or other Homepod speakers can reach 24bit and even can reach Dolby Atmos wirelessly to other Homepod speakers. For music, Lossless is still better sounding.

For Qobuz playing in 24 bit/192khz, I can not play multi room audio. It’s from iPad as streamer using USB cable C to DAC/Amp. If I want to play multi room then I switch to Apple Music, using the Homepod as streamer and control it via my iPad Home app.

I was hoping Wiim Amp Ultra can join the multi room, just as AirPlay2 receiver. All DAC/amps here are AirPlay2 capable. And later I won’t be using iPad anymore for Qobuz playing 24bit/192khz but using Wiim Amp Ultra. That’s what I thought.

I still need Qobuz app because better music discovery than Apple Music. Genre based and new album listed and much more.

 

[Bacchusoo7]

That’s still 16bit/44.1Khz. Apple Homepod stream to AirPlay2 receiver or other Homepod speakers can reach 24bit and even can reach Dolby Atmos wirelessly to other Homepod speakers. For music, Lossless is still better sounding.

For Qobuz playing in 24 bit/192khz, I can not play multi room audio. It’s from iPad as streamer using USB cable C to DAC/Amp. If I want to play multi room then I switch to Apple Music, using the Homepod as streamer and control it via my iPad Home app.

I was hoping Wiim Amp Ultra can join the multi room, just as AirPlay2 receiver. All DAC/amps here are AirPlay2 capable. And later I won’t be using iPad anymore for Qobuz playing 24bit/192khz but using Wiim Amp Ultra. That’s what I thought.

I still need Qobuz app because better music discovery than Apple Music. Genre based and new album listed and much more.

It's nice to get as much quality as possible, but none of the amps can resolve 24 bits anyway. So I'm not sure it makes any difference.

 

[crespo]

Hi All,

I’ve bought this amp few Days ago. It works like a charm. I have only issue with latency in Analog imput. I Connect to It a mixer for karaoke purposes but there are big latency (about 50 ms). I contacted support from Wiim and they told me that this latency is due to digital conversion …
If there s anybody Could Resolve this ?
Thank you
PS: sorry for my poor english, I’m French

 

[ScottySmallsMom]

@crespo

I asked wiim about this and if it could be improved in future firmware. They said the latency of all inputs is 50ms but didn't address if it could be improved. I was hoping for a 'pure direct' mode as an alternative for gaming and live music activity, even if you had to forgo sub out and all DSP processing that would be appreciated.

 

[billou5767]

For streaming only, it will be a lot longer than that, say 7-10 years per PC? And that is the point. because I have two Oppo BDP-105D, both are over 20 years old now, still running strong.

EDIT: Here is the Oppo BDP-105D in ultra rare silver. 20+ years old, in pristine condition and still functions like new and this is after Oppo closed their doors. With any luck maybe this bad boy can last another 10 years? That silver box on the bottom shelf is a mini, fanless PC, cost < $250 from Amazon, that is the only thing that will need an upgrade when the hardware can no longer support the software. Easily another 7-8 years, likely 15 years. The Yamaha is a pure analog integrated, so nothing will need an update, unless there is a new industry standard to replace the XLR connection?

it dont cost 250 because you have 100 e of memory know and 100 e of ssd look amazon and you have the exemple of Win 10 , no more support or all computer can go to win 11 ( 250 to 500 million ) do you think it will be different with W12 or 13

 

[PristineSound]

it dont cost 250 because you have 100 e of memory know and 100 e of ssd look amazon and you have the exemple of Win 10 , no more support or all computer can go to win 11 ( 250 to 500 million ) do you think it will be different with W12 or 13

Here is an option, another option is to buy a used computer. There are many options.

If you are referring to a more powerful computer, yes, you can assemble a more powerful one too. It can be as cheap as $80 to as expensive as $20k. Here is a thread on PC for audio use.

And if Windows 11 comes to EOL, you can upgrade to Windows 12 for less than $10.

I just want to make sure that you understand that I am not forcing an idea on anyone here. You replied to my comment with constraints and so I am replying back expressing options. Please ignore as you see fit.

 

[Geertidow]

In know this isn't an AVR but they do support multichannel audio processing when you attach more Wiim streaming products.

From their FAQ: "The other devices function as Followers. They can be any combination of WiiM streamers, WiiM streaming amplifiers, and WiiM speakers, except the WiiM Mini."

So they certainly have experience with multichannel processing. Wiim making a standalone AVR seems pretty realistic.

Wait how would this work?
Edit: just read a manual. That's really cool.

 

[holbob]

I have a PC under my TV and attached to my wiim Ultra. No way would I expect the family to use it for music, it would drive them crazy. As for the TV Audio, how would I route to the amp via the PC? I would need to do so to get the eq I already have, and I'd have to buy a separate dac anyway - and I'd lose the ability to use a single remote control for everything. Suddenly a system where everything just works using the same remote control as the television, and just opening whatever app you use for streaming and choosing the ultra as the playback device (about 2 presses), becomes this long, complicated, obstinate ball ache just to watch television. I don't think so. The noise in the higher frequencies would definitely go up then, not because the ultra has a 3255 chip, but because of the screeching from the wife and daughter.

 

[milosz]

I'm tempted to buy one even when I don't need it, haha

Me too! But I need another gizmo - even a REALLY GOOD gizmo- like I need a hole in the head. But on the other hand I have been having headaches lately so maybe I could do with some trepanning....

 

[OldTimer]

It's nice to get as much quality as possible, but none of the amps can resolve 24 bits anyway. So I'm not sure it makes any difference.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/apple-homepod-24-bit-lossless-audio-airplay-2/

iPhone/iPad/MacOs cannot but HomePod can. If they are the same, so what’s the reason people buying Homepod?
I think Wiim also think about that, so why we support our competitor in our multiroom ecosystem.

 

[harkpabst]

Too much faith.

I don't think so.

They have already proven their commitment in dropping Airplay (where iPhone users are 30% of the world's share) in their later models and keeping some useless squeezelite (because it's open source and free).

It's no secret which devices do support AirPlay and which don't. Where's the problem? AirPlay has absolutely no meaning outside Apple's ecosystem. And of course, WiiM did not drop AirPlay deliberately ...

I'm pointing out something for those who may find it as a point of substance, it is not meant to be an attack on someone's pride of Wiim ownership. If you don't think what I said is a point of substance, then it doesn't matter to you.

As long as it's not just grumbling or calling others stupid that's fine with me. Different use cases, different opinions.

The issue is the apps. With iOS/Android updates, after a period the app won’t be able to be installed on your phone.

As a mitigating factor, WiiM have an API which should make it possible for 3rd party apps to emerge if the company itself stops releasing updates for whatever reason.

All true.

Some additional information: The current version of the WiiM Home App runs on Android 7.0 and up. You can always download the .APK file from WiiM's website, so you can keep a local backup in case the app would be withdrawn from Google Play completely. I don't know about the iOS version, because like ~72% of all smartphone users on earth I don't use an iPhone (in my private life).

Admittedly, the HTTP API doesn't cover 100% of the devices functionality. Some users have been asking about a full fidelity web app built into the devices but it doesn't look like Linkplay are considering this.

Bluetooth is lower quality, AirPlay uses WiFi.

AirPlay isn't magically better just because it uses Wi-Fi.

So my iPhone, for example, I could select WIIM Mini, a Sonos speakers, and another apple device and play the same music simultaneously. I know other platforms do similar stuff I'm just familiar with the apple AirPlay and have it on other devices.

That's a strong point of AirPlay 2, for sure. The thing is that Apple purposefully dropped the lossless 16 bit 44.1 kHz quality of the 1st generation (in most use cases) to implement multi room streaming (even if you don't use this).

Other makes have their own multi room solutions (and WiiM is one of them, using lossless transmission). Typically, you cannot integrate devices from different hardware manufacturers, though.

 

[chelgrian]

I don't think so.


It's no secret which devices do support AirPlay and which don't. Where's the problem? AirPlay has absolutely no meaning outside Apple's ecosystem. And of course, WiiM did not drop AirPlay deliberately ...


As long as it's not just grumbling or calling others stupid that's fine with me. Different use cases, different opinions.



All true.

Some additional information: The current version of the WiiM Home App runs on Android 7.0 and up. You can always download the .APK file from WiiM's website, so you can keep a local backup in case the app would be withdrawn from Google Play completely. I don't know about the iOS version, because like ~72% of all smartphone users on earth I don't use an iPhone (in my private life).

Admittedly, the HTTP API doesn't cover 100% of the devices functionality. Some users have been asking about a full fidelity web app built into the devices but it doesn't look like Linkplay are considering this.


AirPlay isn't magically better just because it uses Wi-Fi.


That's a strong point of AirPlay 2, for sure. The thing is that Apple purposefully dropped the lossless 16 bit 44.1 kHz quality of the 1st generation (in most use cases) to implement multi room streaming (even if you don't use this).

Other makes have their own multi room solutions (and WiiM is one of them, using lossless transmission). Typically, you cannot integrate devices from different hardware manufacturers, though.

Violating the Made For iPod agreement that they had already agreed to when they first built AirPlay counts as dropping it deliberately. If they had never had AirPlay at all it would be a different matter.

In general AirPlay will be using 256KB/s AAC that will be better than SBC but not as good as LDAC or the better APTx versions however because Bluetooth is so fragile from an RF point of view it frequently drops down from the high bitrate versions, AirPlay over WiFi is likely to be more consistent.

in terms of market those with iPhone are likely to have more disposable income and thus it’s more likely they will be in the market for a moderately expensive streamer.

 

[The French]

In what world anyone critically listens to HT background noises instead of getting immersed in the scene? Even if it measured bad, can anyone notice a difference in a HT?

Are you asking In what world people should be concerned by the quality of what they are buying ?
Seriously ?
If people can't hear any difference, why even go with a JBL AVR, and not the cheapest ?

It's kind of funny because couple of pages earlier, you were claiming the Wiim Amp Ultra wasn't even able to reach 100W@8 Ohms, and 200W@4 Ohms,
telling people the Yamaha 303 was a better deal.

I think you are placing your opinion before any kind of logic.

 

[harkpabst]

Violating the Made For iPod agreement that they had already agreed to when they first built AirPlay counts as dropping it deliberately.

When and how did WiiM violate the MFi agreement? Did Apple ever say so? Do you have anything else to support that claim?

If they had never had AirPlay at all it would be a different matter.

Because ... ?

in terms of market those with iPhone are likely to have more disposable income and thus it’s more likely they will be in the market for a moderately expensive streamer.

Those with more disposable income are surely more likely in the market for an expensive streamer (how about a nice AURALiC streamer with endless software support?), not necessarily for a moderately priced WiiM.

Unless they are also sensible and rational,.of course.

 

[chelgrian]

When and how did WiiM violate the MFi agreement? Did Apple ever say so? Do you have anything else to support that claim?


Because ... ?


Those with more disposable income are surely more likely in the market for an expensive streamer (how about a nice AURALiC streamer with endless software support?), not necessarily for a moderately priced WiiM.

Unless they are also sensible and rational,.of course.

To my certain knowledge the MFI agreement does not allow AirPlay transmit functionality, they implemented that therefore they must have violated the agreement.

I (and many others) have made a sensible an rational judgement I prefer the Apple ecosystem to other ecosystems if you cannot cope with or comprehend that then that is your problem.

 

[Mort]

To my certain knowledge the MFI agreement does not allow AirPlay transmit functionality, they implemented that therefore they must have violated the agreement.

I (and many others) have made a sensible an rational judgement I prefer the Apple ecosystem to other ecosystems if you cannot cope with or comprehend that then that is your problem.

This is not what you said though. You said it like it was known and certain.

Violating the Made For iPod agreement that they had already agreed to when they first built AirPlay counts as dropping it deliberately.

But It's just speculation. You don't know anything for sure, and pardon us for not taking an Internet poster at their word.

 

[Burnside]

This is not what you said though. You said it like it was known and certain.

But It's just speculation. You don't know anything for sure, and pardon us for not taking an Internet poster at their word.

Yeah, opinion and speculation presented as fact. Only WiiM and Apple know the facts and neither are likely to say publicly.

 

[Bacchusoo7]

AirPlay isn't magically better just because it uses Wi-Fi.

well, it isn’t “magically better”, but it certainly takes advantage of the strengths of Wi-Fi. Bigger coverage, higher bandwidth, better stability. Obviously, you can put any quality of audio through it within its specifications so you could put “Bluetooth quality“ audio through Wi-Fi and it would be the same except with better coverage and stability. If anyone who’s ever tried to transfer a file over Bluetooth instead of Wi-Fi knows the limitations quite readily.

This is the same reason that everybody else is in home streaming uses Wi-Fi primarily instead of Bluetooth. Sonos, Wiim etc. are all relying on Wi-Fi.

For me, I have a lot of Apple devices and having AirPlay built-in is convenient, which makes it an important feature for me. So because of that, the Wiim not having it is a dealbreaker.

If someone has invested in a Sonos ecosystem or a Wiim ecosystem then they are going to seek out devices that work well within that sphere and avoid products that are not.

 

[Cbdb2]

Bluetooth is lower quality, AirPlay uses WiFi. Also, BT doesn't allow for multiple devices at the same time. Whereas AirPlay can play to a number of devices simultaneously.

This is from Wiim: "Bluetooth offers a high-quality alternative for streaming from Apple Music, SiriusXM, or any other app not integrated into the WiiM system. Bluetooth on WiiM Ultra supports 256kbps AAC lossy audio, which is the same quality that AirPlay delivers."

And theres this from Darko https://darko.audio/2024/07/wiims-pro-plus-confirms-that-apple-airplay-2-isnt-always-lossless/