WiiM Amp Pro - TPA3255 PFFB | WiFi 6e | Bluetooth 5.3 vs WiiM Amp

[Mike_Trueman]

Would nice to see a battle!

WiiM Amp Pro vs Denon Home Amp vs Marantz Model M1

 

[amarsicola]

Any reason to get the WiiM Ultra over the WiiM Pro Amp if this seems to do it all minus the display?

I already own the WiiM ultra and its great, but seems like the new WiiM Pro Amp can do the same thing plus its a power amp. My speakers are 90db efficient too.

Maybe you meant any reason between Wiim Ultra vs Wiim pro plus. Answer is no substantial reason. One could have been XLR outs, but they are not there in the Ultra. Maybe next release?

 

[harkpabst]

Maybe you meant any reason between Wiim Ultra vs Wiim pro plus. Answer is no substantial reason. One could have been XLR outs, but they are not there in the Ultra. Maybe next release?

No, since this thread is about the upcoming WiiM Amp Pro it's more likely that @DearSX really meant any reason between WiiM Ultra and WiiM Amp Pro.

There are a couple of differences:

WiiM Ultra

We are still waiting for Roon certification for the Wiim Ultra, I received an Ultra this week. I am still testing it, but one curious thing is that Roon marks it as already tested, but not yet ready. So far so good, so I am using Chromecast to use the Ultra together with Roon, the transmission...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[DearSX]

Maybe you meant any reason between Wiim Ultra vs Wiim pro plus. Answer is no substantial reason. One could have been XLR outs, but they are not there in the Ultra. Maybe next release?

I do mean the new WiiM Pro Amp vs the WiiM ultra streamer....

WiiM Ultra vs. WiiM Pro Amp​

Similarities​

• DAC: Both feature the high-performance ESS ES9038Q2M DAC.
• Wi-Fi: Both support Wi-Fi 6E.
• Bluetooth: Both use Bluetooth 5.3.
• Audio Inputs: Both support Analog (RCA), Optical, and HDMI ARC inputs.
• Audio Outputs: Both include Analog (RCA) and Subwoofer outputs.
• Streaming Services: Both support Chromecast Audio, Spotify Connect, TIDAL Connect, DLNA, and have Alexa Multiroom with UHD capabilities.
• Room Correction: Both offer room correction features
• USB Port: Both have USB ports for storage and audio output.
• Connectivity: Both include Ethernet, USB, and support grouping with various smart speakers.
• 10-band Graphic Equalizer: Both provide a 10-band graphic equalizer for sound customization.

Differences​

• Headphone Amplifier:
  • WiiM Ultra: Includes a high-fidelity headphone amplifier (TPA6120A2).
  • WiiM Pro Amp: No specific headphone amplifier is mentioned.
• Display:
  • WiiM Ultra: Features a 3.5” vibrant touchscreen display covered with glass for controlling settings and displaying information.
  • WiiM Pro Amp: Does not have a touchscreen display.
• Signal-to-Noise Ratio (Analog Out):
  • WiiM Ultra: 121 dB
  • WiiM Pro Amp: 120 dB
• Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (THD+N) (Analog Out):
  • WiiM Ultra: 0.00018% (-115 dB)
  • WiiM Pro Amp: 0.0005% (-105 dB)
• Subwoofer Output:
  • WiiM Ultra: Features comprehensive bass management with adjustable crossover frequency, level, phase, and latency.
  • WiiM Pro Amp: Subwoofer output is available but with less detailed management features.
• 12V Trigger:
  • WiiM Ultra: Includes a 12V trigger for automatically turning on connected equipment.
  • WiiM Pro Amp: 12V trigger is not specified.
• Amp: supports AirPlay 2

 

[harkpabst]

AirPlay: Both support AirPlay 2.

The WiiM Ultra does not support AirPlay 2. It's still unknown if the WiiM Amp Pro will.

Headphone Amplifier:

• WiiM Ultra: Includes a high-fidelity headphone amplifier (TPA6120A2).
• WiiM Pro Amp: No specific headphone amplifier is mentioned.

Judging from what WiiM had on display during the Munich High End fair (and the general similarities with the WiiM Amp) there will not be any headphone output on the Amp Pro (except for Bluetooth).

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (THD+N) (Analog Out):

• WiiM Ultra: 0.00018% (-115 dB)
• WiiM Pro Amp: 0.0005% (-105 dB)

You can compare these numbers, but it doesn' make too much sense because it does include the power amp section of the WiiM Amp Pro.

Subwoofer Output:

• WiiM Ultra: Features comprehensive bass management with adjustable crossover frequency, level, phase, and latency.
• WiiM Pro Amp: Subwoofer output is available but with less detailed management features.

The current WiiM Amp actually supports exactly the same bass management features as the WiiM Ultra. Variable low pass and high pass crossover frequency, level, absolute phase (polarity) and delay of either sub or mains (actually variable phase control). It would be surprising if the Amp Pro did worse than the Amp here.

And don't forget the Ultra's phono input, switchable for MM or MC.

 

[DearSX]

Yeah, it sounds like the WiiM Pro Amp is the better deal overall if you don't need a headphone amp, display or phono. Too bad it's not out yet also they need to fix the load dependency, my speakers are 6 and 8 ohms.

ps. I fixed the airplay part above.

The amp seems more user friendly for a main system unit that many will use. I could plug the WiiM Pro Amp into my TV then my speakers directly and sub, apply EQ and stream music from Qobuz all from the $370 amp in high resolution and very low noise. I do really like my WiiM Ultra with trigger out and nice display though.

 

[harkpabst]

Yeah, it sounds like the WiiM Pro Amp is the better deal overall if you don't need a headphone amp, display or phono. Too bad it's not out yet also they need to fix the load dependency, my speakers are 6 and 8 ohms.

ps. I fixed the airplay part above.

The amp seems more user friendly for a main system unit that many will use. I could plug the WiiM Pro Amp into my TV then my speakers directly and sub, apply EQ and stream music from Qobuz all from the $370 amp in high resolution and very low noise. I do really like my WiiM Ultra with trigger out and nice display though.

You did recognize and value the main disadvantage of the WiiM Amp Pro: It's not available yet, so we don't know nothing for sure.

Talking about load dependency: The biggest single difference between the WiiM Amp and the WiiM Amp Pro will be the introduction of PFFB, Post Filter Feedback. If done right it will reduce load dependency to absolutely negligible levels. WiiM engineers (or those working for Linkplay, the company behind WiiM) seem to be pretty smart people and there is a 6 year old application report by Texas Instruments on how to apply PFFB to the TPA325x series of class D power amplifier chips.

But you shouldn't care about your speakers' nominal impedance anyway. It really means about nothing. You need to know your speakers' measured impedance in the treble region to know if load dependency is even an issue with the current WiiM Amp or not. The smoother and the closer that impedance is to roughly 4 ohms the less it will influence the sound. Even with speakers potentially "problematic", EQ can be used to mostly overcome the problem.

 

[Sokel]

Even with speakers potentially "problematic", EQ can be used to mostly overcome the problem.

EQ where?
Up high?It's not gonna happen without a full spinorama including the effects of the whatever dependency as any correction above transition has to be based on anechoic data.

It's not as simple.

 

[MCH]

EQ where?
Up high?It's not gonna happen without a full spinorama including the effects of the whatever dependency as any correction above transition has to be based on anechoic data.

It's not as simple.

Can you not measure the frequency response (electrically, at the amp terminals) with the speaker as a load and use that to EQ to flat? (It is a question)

 

[Sokel]

Can you not measure the frequency response (electrically, at the amp terminals) with the speaker as a load and use that to EQ to flat? (It is a question)

The proper way calculating the effect (and then correcting) is at this thread at great detail (also a great read) :

Complex impedance load amp FR influence - WiiM Amp review by Erin

Was pleasantly surprised today when I read the review of the WiiM Amp on Erin's website. Erin will be using two complex impedance profiles in all of his amplifier reviews in the future to measure their impact on the frequency response of the tested amplifiers. My only criticism is that the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[harkpabst]

I didn't imply it was "simple". But are you going to say that load dependency will make EQ harder to perform with regards to spinorama data? In that case I don't understand why this should be the case. To me it's the same general problem of what EQ can and should fix.

 

[Sokel]

I didn't imply it was "simple". But are you going to say that load dependency will make EQ harder to perform with regards to spinorama data? In that case I don't understand why this should be the case. To me it's the same general problem of what EQ can and should fix.

Yes,that's what I'm saying in a way.
Not exactly that the EQ will be harder,but the whole process,it;s not exactly easy to obtain anechoic data,cause the ones existing will no longer represent the FR in the most audibly sensitive area.
Sure one can obtain some good quasi-anechoic data following the guide here as well as obtaining the electric data using DATS,etc.
But will it worth the time,the effort and the questionable result?

And another,not all speakers can be EQ'ed high even if one obtain anechoic data (the same data will show if it can or not) ,in fact only the nicely made ones can.

 

[harkpabst]

Yes,that's what I'm saying in a way.
Not exactly that the EQ will be harder,but the whole process,it;s not exactly easy to obtain anechoic data,cause the ones existing will no longer represent the FR in the most audibly sensitive area.
Sure one can obtain some good quasi-anechoic data following the guide here as well as obtaining the electric data using DATS,etc.
But will it worth the time,the effort and the questionable result?

And another,not all speakers can be EQ'ed high even if one obtain anechoic data (the same data will show if it can or not) ,in fact only the nicely made ones can.

I agree with most everything you say. It's just that I'm still with @MCH here.

The error introduced by load dependency (as still found in most cheap class D amplifiers) is of a static nature. It's mostly independent of level (to the degree the speaker's impedance is) and completely independent of directivity. All the information is in the transfer function of the amp with real speakers connected.

And best of all: The WiiM Amp Pro shouldn't even suffer from this problem.

 

[gwing]

So with 85db sensitivity speakers probably not recommended, unless near field conditions meaning less than 3ft from the speakers!

I would happily recommend it, even for 85dB speakers because it is going to be able to go plenty loud enough for most people in most size rooms.

If you have big rooms and like to listen very loud then sure, something else would be better. But if you want really loud looking at the speakers first is probably the way to go.

 

[dguillor]

Can you not measure the frequency response (electrically, at the amp terminals) with the speaker as a load and use that to EQ to flat? (It is a question)

No. The response there will be very flat. The ripple in the response is almost entirely the speaker and room effects.

 

[harkpabst]

No. The response there will be very flat. The ripple in the response is almost entirely the speaker and room effects.

What are you talking about? The room has absolutely nothing to do with it. This is an effect purely between the amp and its load.

And because the speaker is the load you can measure it in the voltage across its clamps, no question.

 

[Inertiaman]

Amp Pro is up on US Amazon for pre-order. $379. Says "release" is Sept 26, which I presume will be first shipments.

There's a statement in the description saying it "supports Dolby Digital Audio." I don't remember that feature being mentioned when the product was announced. Is this new news or did I miss some earlier discussion? Wondering what it really means . . . will it be able to decode Dolby content into L/R/Sub as an alternative to PCM on the Arc input??

 

[Descartes]

Waiting for the next one that will incorporate WiFi 7!

 

[joostdh]

Like the Ultra, unfortunately:

• NOTE: This device is incompatible with AirPlay and cannot function as an AirPlay receiver.

 

[Pritaudio]

The main advantage of these amps is the sub integration.
And the ultra does that too, in case the amp is not sufficient.
It would be nice to have digital out in case you decide against the inbuilt dac or amp section.