WiiM Amp Pro Streaming Stereo Amplifier Review

[Haskil]

Je ne suis pas sûr de ce que tu veux dire, à moins que je suppose que tu ne considères pas cela comme une discussion si les gens ne sont pas d'accord avec toi ?

Il est acceptable de faire référence à de bonnes recherches sur le sujet. Je ne pense pas que quiconque vous demande de faire des recherches originales. Les données existantes sur le sujet semblent suggérer qu'il s'agit d'une de ces choses qui pourraient être audibles dans certaines conditions, mais pour la plupart des gens et dans la plupart des situations, ce n'est pas vraiment quelque chose dont il faut s'inquiéter.

Quel Denon qui coûte moins cher que celui-ci en a moins ?

Above all, this discussion would be interesting on the effects of IMD and would ideally find its place in a specific discussion topic opened especially rather than getting lost in a series of discussions on the measures of an economic device...
And the fact that ryanmh1 "thinks that as ASR's audience has grown, this kind of discussion is less welcomed and engaged than before" is obviously an error of judgment on his part.

Edit for translation...

 

[Tell]

Surtout, cette discussion serait intéressante sur les effets de l'IMD trouverait idéalement sa place dans un sujet de discussion spécifique ouvert spécialement plutôt que de se perdre dans une suite de discussion aux mesures d'un dispositif économique...
Et le fait que ryanmh1 « pense qu'à mesure que l'audience de l'ASR a augmenté, ce genre de discussion est moins bien accueilli et engagé qu'avant » est évidemment une erreur de jugement de sa part.

English is a perfect language to use on an international forum.

 

[ryanmh1]

Not sure what you mean, unless I suppose you don't consider it a discussion if people aren't agreeing with you?

I was pointing out simply that most people aren't going to care how a PWM Class D works, and what various measurements may mean in that context. PMA does, so I responded to him. There's not really anything to agree or disagree with, unless someone seriously believes high IMD is desirable, which I don't think they do.

Undesirable doesn't mean it matters though. I don't think anything being measured for hardly anything outside of speakers is audible for most people, and even decent speakers are a stretch.

EDIT: Most modern products are "great" or "excellent" by the "most people don't hear it" measure, yet assuming that is how products are ranked, then this whole site is dedicated to reviewing and ranking products and recommending certain of them for purchase based heavily on a singular metric which says almost zero about a sonic quality anyone can hear and which is, according to Audio Precision, a poor sensitivity test for most kinds of distortion affecting most power amplifiers, and has near zero sensitivity for the single largest problem facing power amplifiers (input stage nonlinearity). Reference: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...rtion-measurement-methods-ap-aes-pdf.1291415/.

That's a rather weird paradox, if you think about it. It's testing cars for how well they handle on a racetrack by measuring the quality of the tires and suspension, then ranking them instead by the size of the engine, and then realizing you'll never drive on a racetrack, and then claiming it was never about that, anyway, since they all drive just fine. They all go down the highway. Which they do, including the Wiim. Even if I'm fooling myself, I wanna think I can drive like Jehu, so I still want to know how good the suspension on my chariot is. (All this thread seemed to be missing was a car analogy and a Biblical reference to chariot drivers. This also probably explains why I drive around in a car with a rollcage and have an 800WPC amplifier..)

The point is, when you're in this product class, buy the one you like the most and which has the features you want for what you plan to do with it, and which offers the best value. Don't buy it based on measurements. Doubtful you'll hear a meaningful difference in use on the equipment a $350 amplifier would be paired with. If you want to go racing, this isn't your ride. But it's a good cruiser.

 

[Piotr]

Hey everyone, I could use some advice.

Which option would you go for?

• This unit (469€)
• Marantz Stereo 70s (nice design, AirPlay 2, HDMI extender, 670€)
• Wiim Ultra + the most affordable Apollon (I can get the Apollon for €700, so 1087€)

I’ll be driving budget bookshelf speakers (Monitor Bronze BX2) for now, but I plan to upgrade them in about two years.
Understand there's a wide range in price, but I'm not sure if spending more will actually provide any noticeable benefits.

 

[Tell]

Hey everyone, I could use some advice.

Which option would you go for?

• This unit (469€)
• Marantz Stereo 70s (nice design, AirPlay 2, HDMI extender, 670€)
• Wiim Ultra + the most affordable Apollon (I can get the Apollon for €700, so 1087€)

I’ll be driving budget bookshelf speakers (Monitor Bronze BX2) for now, but I plan to upgrade them in about two years.
Understand there's a wide range in price, but I'm not sure if spending more will actually provide any noticeable benefits.

Get whatever has all the functionality you need, because sound wise you won't hear any difference (unless one of the functions is digital room correction of course).

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Hey everyone, I could use some advice.

Which option would you go for?

• This unit (469€)
• Marantz Stereo 70s (nice design, AirPlay 2, HDMI extender, €670)
• Wiim Ultra + the most affordable Apollon (I can get the Apollon for €700, so €1087)

I'll be driving budget bookshelf speakers (Monitor Bronze BX2) for now, but I plan to upgrade them in about two years.
Understand there's a wide range in price, but I'm not sure if spending more will actually provide any noticeable benefits.

Since you've mentioned that you like the design of the Marantz and seem to appreciate its features, don't you think you'll likely be happier with it?

 

[Piotr]

Since you've mentioned that you like the design of the Marantz and seem to appreciate its features, don't you think you'll likely be happier with it?

Not sure what's the performance of it. Darke Audio on youtube says he likes it the most, yet this could be very personal bias.
Wiim Amp and Wiim Streamer give the dsp and room correction which is tempting.

 

[Haskil]

English is a perfect language to use on an international forum.

An oversight, boss!
Fixed, boss!
Have a good day.

 

[Brian Hall]

Hey everyone, I could use some advice.

Which option would you go for?

• This unit (469€)
• Marantz Stereo 70s (nice design, AirPlay 2, HDMI extender, 670€)
• Wiim Ultra + the most affordable Apollon (I can get the Apollon for €700, so 1087€)

I’ll be driving budget bookshelf speakers (Monitor Bronze BX2) for now, but I plan to upgrade them in about two years.
Understand there's a wide range in price, but I'm not sure if spending more will actually provide any noticeable benefits.

Wiim Ultra with a pair of Fosi V3 monoblocks. A single Fosi ZA3 would be good also.

 

[GWolfman]

The AP route is out of the question since I have to get a new AP just to get that option.

I have bought a TV with ARC support. I am hoping I can feed it PCM over HDMI and have it generate ARC. The challenge is figuring out where to put the big display in my lab. Then I can test it.

Can you use one of those HDMI/ARC audio extractors and connect the WiiM as if it was the AVR? Or is that not going to work since they might include a dummy video stream with the extracted audio?

According to this Reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Soundbars/comments/15icd0h/any_new_solutions_to_make_use_of_hdmi_arc_with_a

This device can output audio to their ARC soundbar correctly from their PC’s HDMI (see the third picture on the Amazon listing):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BNSY3VKW

Free returns, maybe worth a try.

 

[Emiyanez]

There’s a lot of silly chatter about an amp that made it to the blue zone, looking like the equivalent of two Fosi monos plus a miniDSP, for under $400.

For the golden ears among us, show us your double blind results.

Agree 100%! A really competent amp with DSP for this price is SOTA-bang-for-the-buck (as we like to say around here) and you forgot to add the streaming capabilities, the customizable sub out (in case a 2.1 system is of interest), HDMI ARC... What's not to like?

 

[Piotr]

Agree 100%! A really competent amp with DSP for this price is SOTA-bang-for-the-buck (as we like to say around here) and you forgot to add the streaming capabilities, the customizable sub out (in case a 2.1 system is of interest), HDMI ARC... What's not to like?

No airplay

But that's not a deal breaker for me, since I do have airplay in my TV.

The data can travel that way:
Airplay device > TV <hdmi earc> WiiM Amp > Speakers.
No sure though if I increase the volume, from my smartphone, will it increase the TV volume or Wiim?

From what I can see, availability in Europe isn't quick. Online stores are showing December 27th as the expected date, so Amazon will likely be the same. Folks in the US, enjoy your privilege!

 

[Bamboszek]

What Denon that costs less than this has less of it?

Denon AVR-X1800H is currently available for 382 EUR at Amazon.de.
Old version of Wiim AMP without "Pro" costs the same.

SMSL AO300 or LOXJIE A40 are a bit cheaper, but HDMI ARC implementation is lackluster and it was deal breaker for me.

I was searching for simple solution for TV stereo speaker amplification.
SPDIF output from Samsung ang LG TVs is really bad with awful jitter and audio drops so HDMI ARC is the only option.

Considered Wiim AMP at first, but Denon AVR looks much better imo. Even for 2.0 setup.

Audio performance should be similar or bit better for Denon, but additionally we have all the AVR features - eARC, audio formats decode, much more channels for possible future multichannel setup, room correction, radio tuners, etc.

Older model, AVR-X1700H is already measured by Polish audio.com.pl - https://audio.com.pl/testy/kino-domowe/amplitunery-av/3510-denon-avr-x1700h
Newer AVR-X1800H should basically measure almost the same.
My unit will be there next week, maybe I will run some basic measurements if I would have time.

 

[JeremyFife]

Denon AVR-X1800H is currently available for 382 EUR at Amazon.de.
Old version of Wiim AMP without "Pro" costs the same.

SMSL AO300 or LOXJIE A40 are a bit cheaper, but HDMI ARC implementation is lackluster and it was deal breaker for me.

I was searching for simple solution for TV stereo speaker amplification.
SPDIF output from Samsung ang LG TVs is really bad with awful jitter and audio drops so HDMI ARC is the only option.

Considered Wiim AMP at first, but Denon AVR looks much better imo. Even for 2.0 setup.

Audio performance should be similar or bit better for Denon, but additionally we have all the AVR features - eARC, audio formats decode, much more channels for possible future multichannel setup, room correction, radio tuners, etc.

Older model, AVR-X1700H is already measured by Polish audio.com.pl - https://audio.com.pl/testy/kino-domowe/amplitunery-av/3510-denon-avr-x1700h
Newer AVR-X1800H should basically measure almost the same.
My unit will be there next week, maybe I will run some basic measurements if I would have time.

Good to have this sort of thing as a reality check, lest we constantly chase the 'new and shiny'.
Personally, the Denon's form factor rules it out (too big) but it's a very good thought

 

[kyuu]

Denon AVR-X1800H is currently available for 382 EUR at Amazon.de.

That's bizarre. Is that a new unit? I don't see anything for that cheap on this side of the pond.

 

[Bamboszek]

Amazon.de

Completely new with VAT included, sold and shipped by Amazon.
I'm located in Poland and MSRP is probably around 819 EUR / 3299 PLN but many retailers are selling it much cheaper - https://www.ceneo.pl/156335771

 

[Pinkynator]

Denon AVR-X1800H is currently available for 382 EUR at Amazon.de.

That's not a very good price, it was 320€ a couple of weeks ago: https://geizhals.de/denon-avr-x1800h-v139966.html

Still, it's a receiver, it's big, you might not need so many inputs and outputs, it probably uses jiggawatts of power in standby, and wife would probably not approve.

Have I told anyone about the time when I installed my own router next to my ISP router in the living room (that's where it had to be, we have IPTV)?

Well, as revenge, I got some plants to take care of in my home office.

Beware, you might get plants if you buy the Denon.

 

[Piotr]

Amazon.de

Completely new with VAT included, sold and shipped by Amazon.
I'm located in Poland and MSRP is probably around 819 EUR / 3299 PLN but many retailers are selling it much cheaper - https://www.ceneo.pl/156335771

The price is certainly "competitive" considering the amount of functionality it offers. However, regarding the stereo quality, isn't it on par with the Marantz Cinema 70s AVR (as reviewed here), which received poor measurements?

 

[Bamboszek]

The price is certainly "competitive" considering the amount of functionality it offers. However, regarding the stereo quality, isn't it on par with the Marantz Cinema 70s AVR (as reviewed here), which received poor measurements?

I'm not really a expert in AVR lineups, but higher model from same series measures really well - https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x4800h-avr-review.42812/
My wild guess is that analog performance in AVR-XxxxH series is pretty similar and main differences are in channel count and features (processing, DSP, HDMI in/outs, pre-outs etc.).
I don't expect miracles here, just want something half decent for Elac DBR62s used for TV and movies watching. I will be more than happy with like 70-80 dB of THD+N, decent IMD, SNR and around 100 W/ch - basically transparent at given circumstances. Audyssey room correction is a nice touch also.
For serious music listening I'm using my Neumanns KH310 at desktop setup.

Like I said, maybe when I would manage a bit of free time I would run some basic measurements of AVR-X1800H.

That's not a very good price, it was 320€ a couple of weeks ago: https://geizhals.de/denon-avr-x1800h-v139966.html

Still, it's a receiver, it's big, you might not need so many inputs and outputs, it probably uses jiggawatts of power in standby, and wife would probably not approve.

Have I told anyone about the time when I installed my own router next to my ISP router in the living room (that's where it had to be, we have IPTV)?

Well, as revenge, I got some plants to take care of in my home office.

Beware, you might get plants if you buy the Denon.

At 320 EUR it was a steal IMHO.

Actually I considered all points you mentioned!

Power consumption is really low compared to older AVRs. 29 W while fully turned on without sound, just under 0.5 W in standby mode with HDMI CEC enabled.
GF Acceptance factor is important too. I didn't wanted to force her to remember turning on TV, then separate amplifier without remote and so on.
HDMI ARC with CEC was a must have, so AVR will be turned on automatically with TV and volume can be changed with TV remote.
I heard sometimes there are some issues with HDMI ARC implementation in Wiim, supposedly improved but still.

It's quite bigger than Wiim AMP but look isn't that bad I think.
Definitely better than HDMI ARC to SPDIF grabber, some kind of DAC and Fosi ZA3 cobbled together with web of cables behind TV

 

[Old_School_Brad]

I'm not really a expert in AVR lineups, but higher model from same series measures really well - https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x4800h-avr-review.42812/
My wild guess is that analog performance in AVR-XxxxH series is pretty similar and main differences are in channel count and features (processing, DSP, HDMI in/outs, pre-outs etc.).
I don't expect miracles here, just want something half decent for Elac DBR62s used for TV and movies watching. I will be more than happy with like 70-80 dB of THD+N, decent IMD, SNR and around 100 W/ch - basically transparent at given circumstances. Audyssey room correction is a nice touch also.
For serious music listening I'm using my Neumanns KH310 at desktop setup.

Like I said, maybe when I would manage a bit of free time I would run some basic measurements of AVR-X1800H.


At 320 EUR it was a steal IMHO.

Actually I considered all points you mentioned!

Power consumption is really low compared to older AVRs. 29 W while fully turned on without sound, just under 0.5 W in standby mode with HDMI CEC enabled.
GF Acceptance factor is important too. I didn't wanted to force her to remember turning on TV, then separate amplifier without remote and so on.
HDMI ARC with CEC was a must have, so AVR will be turned on automatically with TV and volume can be changed with TV remote.
I heard sometimes there are some issues with HDMI ARC implementation in Wiim, supposedly improved but still.

It's quite bigger than Wiim AMP but look isn't that bad I think.
Definitely better than HDMI ARC to SPDIF grabber, some kind of DAC and Fosi ZA3 cobbled together with web of cables behind TV

That would be my choice too. At that price, it's an obvious decision.