Why use monoblocks?

[PristineSound]

even with monoblocks, crosstalk (if it matters) greatly depends on the preamp.

Whether it's audible or not, whether how much it plays a factor compare to the entire signal chain, the science of having monoblocks in itself is reduced crosstalk compared to a stereo amp in one chassis.

Should this be a factor in selecting a monoblock?

It's the same question when you see Amir measures a DAC at 120 SINAD.

But we are drifting, the OP is specifically about Topping monoblock.

 

[pablolie]

Whether it's audible or not, whether how much it plays a factor compare to the entire signal chain, the science of having monoblocks in itself is reduced crosstalk compared to a stereo amp in one chassis.

Explain why. It's ultimately the preamps' crosstalk that matters there. Unless your claim is that stereo power amps have poor channel separation by design (which doesn't seem to be the case in many cases these days.). Even $500 integrated amps provide IMO great crosstalk/channel separation performance these days.

 

[PristineSound]

Explain why. It's ultimately the premps' crosstalk that matters there. Unless your claim is that stereo power amps have poor channel separation by design (which doesn't seem to be the case in many cases these days.). Even $500 integrated amps provide IMO great crosstalk/channel separation performance these days.

There are various reasons for crosstalk in an amplifier (and other electronics) such as but not limited to:
Shared power supply
Signal interference between channels
Capacitive and inductance coupling


When you have a monoblock, nothing is shared so none of that can occur in theory, this also assumes sufficient distance between the two monoblocks.

 

[pablolie]

There are various reasons for crosstalk in an amplifier (and other electronics) such as but not limited to:
Shared power supply
Signal interference between channels
Capacitive and inductance coupling


When you have a monoblock, nothing is shared so none of that can occur in theory, this also assumes sufficient distance between the two monoblocks.

So you are saying crosstalk measurements in stereo amps can't be relied on? That would be news to me. And, again, you need a preamp with monoblocks, and that's where your channel separation performance will come from in any practical listening environment I can imagine. Your crosstalk performance will be defined to the largest degree by the upstream electronics feeding your monoblocks (generic "you").

The major driver for monoblocks in my experience was power and shorter speaker cable distances, as many have commented. Whether or not that is still the case with stuff like Ncore or Purifi around, I haven't had the need to establish.

 

[PristineSound]

So you are saying crosstalk measurements in stereo amps can't be relied on?

I'm not understanding your question.

And, again, you need a preamp with monoblocks, and that's where your channel separation performance will come from in any practical listening environment I can imagine. Your crosstalk performance will be defined to the largest degree by thr upstream electronics feeding your monoblocks (genericl "you").

Just like there is distortion and noise in both the preamp and amp, there is crosstalk in both preamp and amp.

 

[pablolie]

I'm not understanding your question.

Crosstalk can be reliably measured in a stereo amp or integrated amp. It makes zero sense to measure it for a monoblock amp, which will just deliver (never improve) on the preamp crosstalk performance, and amplify it to its best ability (which is typically stellar with quality monoblocks).

Just like there is distortion and noise in both the preamp and amp, there is crosstalk in both preamp and amp.

Including monoblock amp. That's not relevant to channel separation performance in itself.

 

[pablolie]

Crosstalk can be reliably measured in a stereo amp or integrated amp. It makes zero sense to measure it for a monoblock amp, which will just deliver (never improve) on the preamp crosstalk performance, and amplify it to its best ability

Including monoblock amp. That's not relevant to crosstalk performance.

One intriguing thing that came to mind... does crosstalk performance get better when you use a stereo power amp in mono mode, as in many modern designs like the Benchmark AHB2? I know it's very doubtful it will be detectable (basically anything above 70 is utterly stellar for channel separation, imo), but just curious.

Checked the Benchmark AHB2 and every spec other than power delivery is the exact same whether run in stereo or bridged (monoblock) mode.

 

[PristineSound]

One intriguing thing that came to mind... does crosstalk performance get better when you use a stereo power amp in mono mode, as innmanyodermndeskgns like the Benchmark AHB2? I know it's very doubtful it will be detectable (basically anything above 70 is utterly stellar for channel separation), but just curious.

I haven't touch EE for most of my life now, let alone picked up a book and when I was in deep, it was all digital circuitry. So I am not the best person to answer this as such I will caveat it that take someone else who's hands on reply over mine.

In theory when you use a stereo amp in bridge, crosstalk should better because you are only inputting one signal so there is no other channel to crosstalk with.

I own the AHB2, and the crosstalk performance is already excellent on stereo, it's not a concern. And I never said it should be a concern, I was merely pointing out one of the benefit of monoblock, again, audible or not.

Good conversation, thank you, much better experience than some crispy crusty ego that I have interacted with previously

 

[Holmz]

I would maybe be a bit concerned about the extra draw of two mono-blocks only if they are used for constant background music to which no one is really paying attention. The single box amp would be better for that application due to its single supply using a pinch less electricity. For attentive listening, after which the amplifiers are turned off, the mono-blocks would be fine. I have a Bryston model 4B-ST, which is a single box amplifier, but upon inspection, I found that it has two separate toroidal power transformers and related sets of supply components. It's two complete amplifiers sharing just the chassis, power switch & cord. I got that amplifier from a previous owner in non working condition. Poor thing had bipolar disorder. Valium did not help that amplifier. I had to replace output BJT's on it.

OK - so did you use a lithium based heat transfer grease under the transistors?

 

[Holmz]

preAmps = small signal amplification
powerAmps = large signal amplification

Or…

Preamps == voltage amplification
Power amps == current amplification, and impedance matching.

 

[pablolie]

Or…

Preamps == voltage amplification
Power amps == current amplification, and impedance matching.

PreAmps these days typically do way more than that, but at a 101 level I could go with that.

 

[xanalog]

but at a 101 level I could go with that.

You do that, boy!
I am impressed you know the difference between a voltage and current. Kudos on you. I think you have missed the part about 'signal'.

 

[pablolie]

You do that, boy!
I am impressed you know the difference between a voltage and current. Kudos on you. I think you have missed the part about 'signal'.

I have no idea what you mean or the context in this thread.

 

[voodooless]

I was merely pointing out one of the benefit of monoblock, again, audible or not.

Yes, but what is the actual benefit? If the better number is inaudible, there is no benefit It’s just a better sound spec. Nobody benefits, other than the marketing department.

 

[Holmz]

You do that, boy!
I am impressed you know the difference between a voltage and current. Kudos on you. I think you have missed the part about 'signal'.

I thought that the power amps traditionally had step down transformers in them to get some current ?
Starting with a high voltage and low current from the tubes…

 

[PristineSound]

Yes, but what is the actual benefit? If the better number is inaudible, there is no benefit It’s just a better sound spec. Nobody benefits, other than the marketing department.

My reply this this question here:

Why use monoblocks?

Can someone please tell me, since when in the hell has crosstalk ever been an issue in this hobby? Just like when did 120 SINAD is needed? Or when 100 SINAD is not enough?

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Holmz]

My reply this this question here:

Why use monoblocks?

Can someone please tell me, since when in the hell has crosstalk ever been an issue in this hobby? Just like when did 120 SINAD is needed? Or when 100 SINAD is not enough?

audiosciencereview.com

Seems circular…

 

[pablolie]

My reply this this question here:

Why use monoblocks?

Can someone please tell me, since when in the hell has crosstalk ever been an issue in this hobby? Just like when did 120 SINAD is needed? Or when 100 SINAD is not enough?

audiosciencereview.com

All true. It seems to always get to that grey area of "how much is really needed in practice" indeed.

 

[respice finem]

Speaking of "needed in practice": Any user of modern active speakers is using "monoblocks" (functionally speaking) - one for each driver. And, very rationally, because they sit between the active crossover and each driver. An effective and cost effective solution. And, if it is good enough for music production, why should it be inadequate for consumption?

 

[Sokel]

Speaking of "needed in practice": Any user of modern active speakers is using "monoblocks" (functionally speaking) - one for each driver. And, very rationally, because they sit between the active crossover and each driver. An effective and cost effective solution. And, if it is good enough for music production, why should it be inadequate for consumption?

It depends, the less compromised 8381A uses two pieces of external amps to drive 9 drivers.

(pro amps, with fans and everything but still... )

Others too.