Why there aren't pcm1794 dac anymore.

[JohnYang1997]

There are still cs4398 dacs but not BB anymore. Old violectric v800, bit newer v880, teac ud501 use pcm1794/pcm1795 and measures very good. Superb thd and outstanding IMD. Is it because people are all going crazy about ess and pcm1794 is relatively expensive comparing to ess non pro models and cs4398?
Also where are cs43131 dacs, only seen on DAPs.
https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/teac-ud501-sharp.php
https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/violectric-v800-off.php
No discussion of psychoacoustic or audibility please.

 

[bunkbail]

@orchardaudio's DACs/streamers use PCM1794 and they measure incredibly good.

 

[FrantzM]

There are still cs4398 dacs but not BB anymore. Old violectric v800, bit newer v880, teac ud501 use pcm1794/pcm1795 and measures very good. Superb thd and outstanding IMD. Is it because people are all going crazy about ess and pcm1794 is relatively expensive comparing to ess non pro models and cs4398?
Also where are cs43131 dacs, only seen on DAPs.
https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/teac-ud501-sharp.php
https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/violectric-v800-off.php
No discussion of psychoacoustic or audibility please.

Hi John

Seriously. I don't see how you can ask a question and limit the replies to ...what? If it is more expensive , how can one not discuss about audibility? If that DAC sounds just like the others ... Are you suggesting that it measures better than the ESS? .. Not that i know if it does. I fail to understand where you want this to go.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Hi John

Seriously. I don't see how you can ask a question and limit the replies to ...what? If it is more expensive , how can one not discuss about audibility? If that DAC sounds just like the others ... Are you suggesting that it measures better than the ESS? .. Not that i know if it does. I fail to understand where you want this to go.

We sure can discuss how they sound and stuff. I just don't want to hear people saying there is no difference or it's all in my head etc. I'm kinda towards more technical, objective and/or other realistic reasons.
Form what I have been seeing, harmonic distortion can be as low as pro line from ess and imd is much superior to ess (using spectrum analysis). Noise is a little bit higher but can be designed to be lower etc. Ud501 and v800 are expensive and old, I wonder why there aren't cheaper alternatives (or at least asking if there's any), seeking the reason for this too.
Thanks for reply.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Audiophonics produces a PCM1794-based DAC.

 

[solderdude]

The PCM1794 is a 16 year old design, the PCM1795 a 10 year old design.
That may have something to do with it.

 

[JohnYang1997]

The PCM1794 is a 16 year old design, the PCM1795 a 10 year old design.
That may have something to do with it.

I agree. There must be something to do with it. But cs4398 is really really old too. But newer designs do adopt cs4398. Probably because those are cheaper and require lower part count?

 

[solderdude]

The PCM1794 is NRND (Not Recommended for New Designs)

Both the PCM1793 and 1795 are still 'active'.

Price and amounts of stock left may be a clue. There are probably enough still around for a series of a few thousands pieces.

 

[JohnYang1997]

The PCM1794 is NRND (Not Recommended for New Designs)

Both the PCM1793 and 1795 are still 'active'.

Price and amounts of stock left may be a clue. There are probably enough still around for a series of a few thousands pieces.

I think they renewed the design by pcm1794a.

 

[solderdude]

possible .. that one is still 'active' and revised in 2015 (fairly recent).

price is probably a good reason not to use it as well. Companies want to make money and the majority of people want to buy the cheapest possible and like to see the latest DAC chips in their products with a wider format support range.

 

[PierreV]

Yes, renewed and stocked everywhere I checked, for example
https://www2.mouser.com/_/?Keyword=PCM1794ADB
That indeed could be a format supported/cheap reference design/etc issue.

 

[twsecrest]

I agree. There must be something to do with it. But cs4398 is really really old too. But newer designs do adopt cs4398. Probably because those are cheaper and require lower part count?

I believe there has been at least one newer revision, of the CS4398 DAC chip.

 

[orchardaudio]

The PCM1794A is not end of life. The PCM1794 (no A) is the obsolete one.

Just because its 10+ years old does not mean it's bad. It still beats the pants off most newer DACs.

All of my products use these in monaural mode which is where this chip really shines.

It is a current output DAC so it's harder to work with than voltage output ones.

 

[bennetng]

Also where are cs43131 dacs, only seen on DAPs.

It seems that Cirrus Logic has a bright future:
https://en.antelopeaudio.com/2019/0...it-384-khz-ad-da-and-unique-headphone-system/

 

[Jimmy]

DACs are a mature technology, the last 'special' BB/TI chip was the multibit PCM1704, from 1998 onwards there hasn't been any groundbreaking advancements, most of the innovation has been targeted towards cost reduction (introduction of sigma delta architecture), new formats, higher sampling rates, which are good things, but they don't change the fact that redbook was enough in the 80s and it still is today, and that we live in a consumerist society where latest is always greatest.

 

[FireLion]

I was just looking at the FX-AUDIO DAC-SQ5 and it uses the pcm1794 along with 3 opamps for $80. I'm tempted to try it to compare to a D30 which I should have next week.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I was just looking at the FX-AUDIO DAC-SQ5 and it uses the pcm1794 along with 3 opamps for $80. I'm tempted to try it tom compare to a D30 which I should have next week.

That may need extensive modification tho. Do you have measurements equipments? Not necessarily best one but like focusrite etc.

 

[FireLion]

That may need extensive modification tho. Do you have measurements equipments? Not necessarily best one but like focusrite etc.

Modification for what purpose? I do not have any equipment but for $60 posted on Aliexpress I might take a chance.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Modification for what purpose? I do not have any equipment but for $60 posted on Aliexpress I might take a chance.

Then it will be very hard for you to do comparison between them.

 

[Westsounds]

DACs are a mature technology, the last 'special' BB/TI chip was the multibit PCM1704, from 1998 onwards there hasn't been any groundbreaking advancements, most of the innovation has been targeted towards cost reduction (introduction of sigma delta architecture), new formats, higher sampling rates, which are good things, but they don't change the fact that redbook was enough in the 80s and it still is today, and that we live in a consumerist society where latest is always greatest.

Naim use this one in all their high end devices. Rumour has it when it was discontinued they sneakily stockpiled the lot so they could continue to use.

Why are they considered so special?