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Why the love for genelec and neumann?

yunie_

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I have 2 burning questions which made me register at this site.

First, regarding the overwhelming love for genelec and neumann on this site.

I owned both and used to love the speakers a lot. But as I explore more, I found these speakers to be flawed for nearfield hifi listening.

The genelecs are great for first impression. But as I live longer with them, they appear too bright. The treble too hot for me. I saw a thread on desktop setup and is amaze that so many uses them for a desktop setup. Genelecs with YouTube videos is just too unbearable.

Neumann is even worse than genelec in my opinion. The bass is great and it's treble not as hot as genelec, but the sound is so sterile. Listen to voices and the neumann suck all emotions out. If you don't listen to acoustics I guess it's fine then. The neumann is very suitable for hip hop.

Now, I know both speakers measures very well (especially the neumanns), but I personally cannot live with them in my setup.
 
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JSmith

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But as I live longer with them, they appear too bright. The treble too hot for me.
Sounds like you need sunglasses and air conditioning then... just kidding. :cool:

Transparent speakers are often accused of bring bright or sterile, as those people may be more used to a more coloured sounding speaker.

I assume you've added salt and pepper to taste via EQ etc.? I'd rather work with a well performing transparent speaker as a base, rather than the speaker having a certain sound that can't be easily altered/fixed.



JSmith
 

dwkdnvr

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The simple explanation is that there are some characteristics of speakers that you can change/tailor, and others that you can't. Genelecs appear to excel in those areas that you can't really change since they're baked into the design of the speaker - namely uniform dispersion and (in most cases) low distortion. Tonal balance issues such as 'brightness' can be 'fixed' or at least 'adjusted to taste' with EQ *if* the overall radiation pattern of the speaker is smooth and uniform. The Neumann's aren't quite as good as the Genelecs, but they're still good.
 
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yunie_

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Sounds like you need sunglasses and air conditioning then... just kidding. :cool:

Transparent speakers are often accused of bring bright or sterile, as those people may be more used to a more coloured sounding speaker.

I assume you've added salt and pepper to taste via EQ etc.? I'd rather work with a well performing transparent speaker as a base, rather than the speaker having a certain sound that can't be easily altered/fixed.



JSmith

In the same way, I can say that bright speakers are often called transparent but they are just simply bright and are coloured bright.
and as you know bright doesn't mean not-coloured. nor does it mean coloured. i guess as long as they measure well, that's fine.

I've used numerous studio monitors before and they all measure well and definitely not coloured. afterall, they are tools.

there are studio monitors that are warmer sounding and brighter sounding, all measure well though. of all studio monitors I've heard, quested are so called warmer sounding while genelec is at the other end of the spectrum.
 

Newman

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In the same way, I can say that bright speakers are often called transparent but they are just simply bright and are coloured bright.
Yes but they are not bright.

Tell us about the bass that you were running in combo with your Genelecs and Neumanns.
 

KSTR

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First, regarding the overwhelming love for genelec and neumann on this site.
They measure well and are engineered excellently. That's about it.

I completely share your sentiments for Neumanns, notably the KH120. Lack of resolution and lack of stereo depth/width for me. For a monitor this is not a bad thing, though.
 

dfuller

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I have definitely heard this tendency for people to find Genelecs bright. I don't find them bright at all - no, to me bright is like PMC and Focal.

They measure well and are engineered excellently. That's about it.

I completely share your sentiments for Neumanns, notably the KH120. Lack of resolution and lack of stereo depth/width for me. For a monitor this is not a bad thing, though.
The 3 way neumanns are significantly better in that respect, IMHO.
 

krabapple

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There is no 'brightness' or 'colour' without it showing up in the suite of measurements Amir does.

Btw, ditto 'resolution'

If you disagree, please propose a factor that's something inherent in the speaker (as opposed to 'brightness' stemming from room/placement issues). If it's something that 'can't be measured', that's a fail.

What Genelecs are is accurate, they are meant to be studio monitors. Typically listened to in more of a near field than home users do.
 

kuf

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I use a pair of 8020 (with a 7040 sub) on my desktop for nearfield listening.
I have them for a few months and find them still impressive as the first day.

I don't find the treble "hot" but bear in mind that I use the treble tilt dip switch on the ON position.
I'm very sensitive and annoyed by bright treble, but this is not the case with my Genelecs.

I don't have experience with Neumann speakers.
 

abdo123

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Neumanns and Genelecs are designed for music producers. So the in-room response will be more flat.

Otherwise the mix won’t translate well outside small rooms.
 

ernestcarl

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I owned both and used to love the speakers a lot. But as I explore more, I found these speakers to be flawed for nearfield hifi listening.

I equalize my Neumann KH120s for "nearfield hifi listening". Have you tried to apply some kind of personalized EQ to them to make their sound more suitable for your use case/ears?
 

stemfencer

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I use a pair of 8020 (with a 7040 sub) on my desktop for nearfield listening.
Bit of a thread hijack, but any chance you can share a bit more as I'm looking at this exact set-up. Does the sub add much (for casual listening, not necessarily mixing and professional applications). Also do you have much hiss or white noise from the set-up?
 

Berwhale

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Does the sub add much (for casual listening, not necessarily mixing and professional applications). Also do you have much hiss or white noise from the set-up?

I think it's generally accepted on ASR that any speakers with a woofer under 5" requires a sub. My MTM's with dual 3.5" woofers certainly benefited from the addition of a sub.

There is thread with an analysis of the hiss from lots of speakers here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hiss-list-s-r.18050/

Genelec rank fairly highly as a brand, but they are far from the best in this respect.
 

Chrispy

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I have 2 burning questions which made me register at this site.

First, regarding the overwhelming love for genelec and neumann on this site.

I owned both and used to love the speakers a lot. But as I explore more, I found these speakers to be flawed for nearfield hifi listening.

The genelecs are great for first impression. But as I live longer with them, they appear too bright. The treble too hot for me. I saw a thread on desktop setup and is amaze that so many uses them for a desktop setup. Genelecs with YouTube videos is just too unbearable.

Neumann is even worse than genelec in my opinion. The bass is great and it's treble not as hot as genelec, but the sound is so sterile. Listen to voices and the neumann suck all emotions out. If you don't listen to acoustics I guess it's fine then. The neumann is very suitable for hip hop.

Now, I know both speakers measures very well (especially the neumanns), but I personally cannot live with them in my setup.
So what do you use now instead? Must you sit at a desk for listening?
 

H-713

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I'll agree that Genelecs are voiced rather bright. It's popular (though not necessarily what you want) for studio monitors, while speakers for domestic playback tend to be tilted down a bit more.

Keep in mind, most of the Genelecs have really pretty looking measurements, and there are a lot of people here who will buy whatever measures best on the Klippel and force themselves to listen to it. As a hint, setup and room acoustics are everything, and you can make a Genelec speaker sound like an absolute dumpster fire.

For monitors, it's more even more complicated. Keep in mind, a typical control room != a typical listening environment. Most studios will have some real thought put into acoustic treatment, and it's seldom as simple as "buy a monitor and chuck it on the meter bridge". Tweaking of active crossovers is not unheard of. Monitors should also be able to handle recordings that have not had dynamics processing yet - power compression is a real issue.

Long story short, speakers are complicated. Measurements and models are a useful tool, but as is so often the case with engineering, it's easy to go down the modeling rabbit hole and spend a month doing theoretical computations, only to be slapped in the face by reality. The best speaker for one room is not necessarily the best speaker for another room.

I've heard speakers that ASR hates sound absolutely fantastic, and I've heard speakers that ASR loves sound like dog dung. Everyone has a different room and different preferences. Does that mean you should ignore the measurements? Absolutely not - they're a good place to start, but you have to learn exactly what they mean for your particular use case. The fact that you dislike both the Genelecs and the Neumanns is not surprising, since they have very similar characteristics.
 

mmi

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I have 8010s on L stands as computer monitors. I find them very rich, warm and transparent, if anything I find them a bit bass heavy for my use case (perhaps due to placement) and run the -2db bass tilt and sometime the desktop tilt. Saying YouTube videos are “unbearable” seems a bit hyperbolic to me, if your ears are so sensitive then just eq them to what you find bearable or god forbid pleasant. YMMV I guess.
 

dfuller

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I'll agree that Genelecs are voiced rather bright. It's popular (though not necessarily what you want) for studio monitors, while speakers for domestic playback tend to be tilted down a bit more.
Genelecs are strange. They measure super flat but they don't sound at all like they are - lots of the scoop boom and sizzle.
 
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