Why so much sub overkill? I'm guilty.

[beefkabob]

I have a pair of JBL 708P. These are not slouchy speakers at all. I set them up with an SVS PB16, and I love bass heavy music, but to get proper frequency response and not hideously overboosted bass, I have to turn the power of the PB16 down, like way, way down, like -23 is where I ended up, and that's a bit boosted but fun. Any more and there's just stupidly overpowered bass. But that's a small room, just over 200 square feet...

And then I have a pair of Klipsch Nines attached to a Klipsch RP1400. They're in a garage of about 1400 square feet, with a ~9 foot ceiling. Even with the garage door open, I have to turn the sub way down, or the bass overpowers.

Now I understand that these huge subs can reach down ever so low, especially the PB16. It just seems to be that, realistically, they're way more sub than even these quality speakers can match. What would it take to match a PB16 at -0? I'm not even sure a JBL M2 pair could do it.

 

[DVDdoug]

I have to turn the power of the PB16 down, like way, way down, like -23 is where I ended up...

...I have to turn the sub way down, or the bass overpowers.

There is no automatic calibration between the main speakers and subwoofer so the 'knob settings" are meaningless. You could set the volume control of both at the center and one will usually be louder than the other at the crossover frequency.

You can adjust to-taste by ear or get a measurement mic and REW and calibrate it.

And, you probably want to boost the bass when listening at lower levels. As you may know, when you turn down the volume it sounds like you've turned-down the bass even more (Equal Loudness Curves).

they're way more sub than even these quality speakers can match. What would it take to match a PB16 at -0? I'm not even sure a JBL M2 pair could do it.

Are you saying the main speakers aren't loud enough for you?

 

[L H]

Run a frequency sweep 20 > 250 hz and see if there's a particular region, say for example 40 hz, that's just OVERLY louder and boomier than the rest of the sweep.

That could be your culprit that's making you turn down the sub, fixable with EQ + your ears. But for precision use an SPL mic + room calibration software.

 

[Chrispy]

What did you set them up with in terms of gear/technique? The gain on the sub isn't particularly relevant except to match the speakers. Whether the sub has higher spl capabilities isn't that meaningful (but helpful with perhaps LFE content as that can be 10dB higher than the speakers).

 

[beefkabob]

I've used Dirac on a Minidsp SHD and just tuned the knob by hand. Both subs are pretty flat. My main "is this right" test is to play Rhianna's and Pharrell's "Lemonade," which has a distinct-sounding base line that hits deep to mid bass. If the notes sound equally loud, then I think the tune is good. If some notes drop in volume, I know I have an issue.

All of that is beside the point, though, The point is that even in a large, partially enclosed space, these subs are massively overpowered for audible frequencies.

Do the 708p get loud enough? I feel like I'd like a bit more headroom. At high enough volumes, ones I might listen at rarely for a single song, the sound compresses something fierce. I don't care enough to replace them. Plus something that will play louder will probably be much bigger.

 

[Oddball]

As noted, it does really depend on the room.

Can definitively understand why SVS PB16 sounds overpowering in 200sft room. Benefit of going "oversized" is the headroom, and in this case I can imagine you would have much to spare, so you get high SPL at low distortion. But Klipsch being overpowering in almost 13,000 cft garage (nice size garage that is ), and even more so with open door, makes me scratch my head even if placed near field.

For the LR speakers, relatively few of them are made for the head banging volumes, so I guess if they are compressing, the only way is to get the ones that can do higher SPL with lower distortion. I find my LR speakers perfectly adequate at 0dB reference volume in 6,000+ CFT room, and honestly don't want to turn the volume past that. If I need to bass it up more, there is plenty of subs that could do that. Where is the borderline when subs become overpowering is really a matter of taste and it will vary by the title/soundrack you are listening at. Not all artists/mixers had the same idea of what is the optimal bass level. Some like it hot and spicy some cool and creamy .

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Bidding time to join the overkill club. Presently, pleased with a pair of Daytom SUB-1500 that are not the last word in extension (25 Hz , -3dB) or SPL ..
Soo will add a HSU VTF-2 Mk5 to those existing 2, for my small concrete room (3.5 x 5x 2.8 meters)... Have the feeling that something as powerful as the SVS PB 16 could induce structural damages to my house ... Seriously.

Peace

 

[beefkabob]

As noted, it does really depend on the room.

Can definitively understand why SVS PB16 sounds overpowering in 200sft room. Benefit of going "oversized" is the headroom, and in this case I can imagine you would have much to spare, so you get high SPL at low distortion. But Klipsch being overpowering in almost 13,000 cft garage (nice size garage that is ), and even more so with open door, makes me scratch my head even if placed near field.

For the LR speakers, relatively few of them are made for the head banging volumes, so I guess if they are compressing, the only way is to get the ones that can do higher SPL with lower distortion. I find my LR speakers perfectly adequate at 0dB reference volume in 6,000+ CFT room, and honestly don't want to turn the volume past that. If I need to bass it up more, there is plenty of subs that could do that. Where is the borderline when subs become overpowering is really a matter of taste and it will vary by the title/soundrack you are listening at. Not all artists/mixers had the same idea of what is the optimal bass level. Some like it hot and spicy some cool and creamy .

It's a nice garage. About 2.5 times normal depth and a bit over 2x normal width, plus some extra space on the side with a bathroom. I just wish the ceilings were taller, so I could install a proper lift. Beggars can't be choosers. I still fill the place to the brim. I've got a shed kit i need to install so I can get the ride on mower out of there.

Seriously, though, on the sub. The last time I blasted, my neighbor walked over since he heard it loud and clear from within his house a few hundred feet away. He wasn't complaining. He was just curious.

 

[Oddball]

Well that is great as I had to but 4 big subs to solve my sub blues . Enjoy.