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Why Roon?

Zensō

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My main concern with Roon is their total dependence on Tidal and Qobuz, both of which are shaky for different reasons. The music industry is rapidly changing and I’d be surprised if either are still around in 5 years. And despite making efforts to do so, Roon has been unable to secure an arrangement with any other streaming services. This could leave their service as a front end for local libraries only, which undermines one of their main selling points: the seamless integration of local and streaming libraries. Add to that the fact that Amazon, Spotify, and Apple are getting into the lossless streaming business and it appears Roon is in a very tenuous position.
 

Jimbob54

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My main concern with Roon is their total dependence on Tidal and Qobuz, both of which are shaky for different reasons. The music industry is rapidly changing and I’d be surprised if either are still around in 5 years. And despite making efforts to do so, Roon has been unable to secure an arrangement with any other streaming services. This could leave their service as a front end for local libraries only, which undermines one of their main selling points: the seamless integration of local and streaming libraries. Add to that the fact that Amazon, Spotify, and Apple are getting into the lossless streaming business and it appears Roon is in a very tenuous position.

Add on to that the fact that I recently discovered my Qobuz favs had stopped syncing (at first totally, now I'm missing a few hundred). More than a couple of these episodes in the next couple of years will cause me to rethink my sub. If the streaming service collapses or has technical issues, thats not a Roon problem but Roon not properly interfacing,regardless of who is at fault, is a killer criteria.

Are there other DSP equipped PC based players that can interface with Tidal/ Qobuz in the same way, even if they cant merge with local libraries?
 

SKBubba

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My main concern with Roon is their total dependence on Tidal and Qobuz, both of which are shaky for different reasons. The music industry is rapidly changing and I’d be surprised if either are still around in 5 years. And despite making efforts to do so, Roon has been unable to secure an arrangement with any other streaming services. This could leave their service as a front end for local libraries only, which undermines one of their main selling points: the seamless integration of local and streaming libraries. Add to that the fact that Amazon, Spotify, and Apple are getting into the lossless streaming business and it appears Roon is in a very tenuous position.

Roon hinted on their forum that something is in the works. I have no inside info, but if I had to guess I'd say probably Deezer.
 

Jimbob54

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Roon hinted on their forum that something is in the works. I have no inside info, but if I had to guess I'd say probably Deezer.

I'll be honest, if its Spotify, much as I dont like their approach, I would drop Qobuz/ Tidal like a shot. It wont be though.
 

SKBubba

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I'll be honest, if its Spotify, much as I dont like their approach, I would drop Qobuz/ Tidal like a shot. It wont be though.

Yes, the combo of roon with Spotify's mobile app would be pretty nice. But also yes, Spotify has no incentive to work with roon so not likely. Roon said in the past that they were in talks with Deezer and the ball was in their court, so...
 

Zensō

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Are there other DSP equipped PC based players that can interface with Tidal/ Qobuz in the same way, even if they cant merge with local libraries?
Not that I'm aware of.

I'm in the process of moving away from Roon. Now that Apple Music is going lossless, I'll be streaming from an iPad Pro via AirPlay to a pair of RPi4's feeding two RME ADI-2 DACs, which solves the DSP question at those locations. In the more causal listening areas throughout the house I'll be streaming AirPlay to various Sonos stereo pairs and Homepods. It's an Apple-centric system, but I've been an Apple person going back a few decades, so it's a good fit for my existing gear and workflow. This should mirror most of the functionality I was getting from Roon with a better experience on iOS and more future-proofing. Most importantly, it will make my wife happy, who never warmed up to Roon and is more comfortable with the Apple Music/AirPlay combo.
 

ctakim

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I find it hard to believe they pay per MQA decode, and whatever metadata they licence certainly is just a tiny fraction of what they charge.

You think the extortionate price guarantees some kind of quality. I think nothing of the sort, it just guarantees the customer being fleeced. Quality and lack of can come at any price.

I am still flabbergasted that a Roon subscription, which provides no music and basically nothing of value, just fluff, is more expensive than Spotify, which comes with metadata, and (almost certainly better) recommendations, and most importantly, the music itself!

And sorry, out of principle I don't do business with companies charging $1500 for NUCs - not even ones in "audiophile, low vibration" cases.

Roon is not a premium product for a premium price. It is typical audiophile snake oil.
Okay, we get that you don't like Roon, and no one here says you have to. But your definition of snake oil is quite a bit different from mine and, honestly, it strikes me as illogical. Roon does what it says it does. You think it is over priced and I don't, as I have been quite happy and satisfied with what it does for me at the current price. People differ, I get that.
 

symphara

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Okay, we get that you don't like Roon, and no one here says you have to. But your definition of snake oil is quite a bit different from mine and, honestly, it strikes me as illogical. Roon does what it says it does. You think it is over priced and I don't, as I have been quite happy and satisfied with what it does for me at the current price. People differ, I get that.
My definition of audiophile snake oil is a grossly overpriced product that’s usually unnecessary, easily replaceable with much more cost-effective alternatives, particularly when hardware is sold at markups of several hundred percentage points for having a certain badge or look. In the audio context, this is accompanied by lofty but unsubstantiated claims of big sound improvement etc.

The Roon Nucleus is basically textbook audiophile snake oil. Just like the overpriced cables people love to bash, and rightfully so. You could get the exact same thing sans the case for a fraction of the price.

The Roon software itself crosses the threshold by virtue of an insane pricing structure of being more expensive than actual music streaming services. Or Disney+. Or Prime Video.

I know I am not forced to buy it - the conversation would be markedly different if I were - but nobody’s forcing people to buy $1000 power cables either. That’s not an argument in favour of a product.

All this in the context of a proprietary protocol being pushed into our devices, with the fairly obvious idea of embracing and extending UPnP to transform music owners into monthly paying subscribers. This is an idea I find downright loathsome. If you object to MQA finding its way into music, you should be much more concerned about Roon finding its way into everything on the market.
 
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Daiyama

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.........

Are there other DSP equipped PC based players that can interface with Tidal/ Qobuz in the same way, even if they cant merge with local libraries?

Audrivana should be able to deliver that (DSP and integration of Tidal/Qobuz). In three days they will release the new Audrivana studio version, together with a new monthly payment scheme.....

BTW. At the moment I can not stream Tidal from within my LMS system. All I want is listening to music and not figuring out what is not working.......
 

Jimbob54

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My definition of audiophile snake oil is a grossly overpriced product that’s usually unnecessary, easily replaceable with much more cost-effective alternatives, particularly when hardware is sold at markups of several hundred percentage points for having a certain badge or look. In the audio context, this is accompanied by lofty but unsubstantiated claims of big sound improvement etc.

The Roon Nucleus is basically textbook audiophile snake oil. Just like the overpriced cables people love to bash, and rightfully so. You could get the exact same thing sans the case for a fraction of the price.

The Roon software itself crosses the threshold by virtue of an insane pricing structure of being more expensive than actual music streaming services. Or Disney+. Or Prime Video.

I know I am not forced to buy it - the conversation would be markedly different if I were - but nobody’s forcing people to buy $1000 power cables either. That’s not an argument in favour of a product.

All this in the context of a proprietary protocol being pushed into our devices, with the fairly obvious idea of embracing and extending UPnP to transform music owners into monthly paying subscribers. This is an idea I find downright loathsome. If you object to MQA finding its way into music, you should be much more concerned about Roon finding its way into everything on the market.

Not sure what is snake oil about this? https://roonlabs.com/nucleus

Usual marketing fluff but no extraordinary claims. Its a fanless pc that one could replicate for far less, but it doesn't claim to behave in a way that makes it unique. Im sure it works and we all know the design and build of the server /streamer has little to no impact on what you hear.
 

Jimbob54

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Audrivana should be able to deliver that (DSP and integration of Tidal/Qobuz). In three days they will release the new Audrivana studio version, together with a new monthly payment scheme.....

BTW. At the moment I can not stream Tidal from within my LMS system. All I want is listening to music and not figuring out what is not working.......

OK. But something about recent posts on here re Audirvana left a nasty taste in my mouth. Plus from what you say, sounds like they are moving towards the Roon model so even if cheaper, I may well be better staying put.
 

Ata

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FWIW, the upcoming Audirvana Studio will offer another alternative to Roon, at a lower pricepoint. I am tempted!
 

bambadoo

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Why not just use LMS (Logitech Media Center) and fitting "endpoint".. Works just like Roon with tons of plugins and integrations. (Tidal, Deezer, Qobus, Spotify, Bandcamp etc....) Everything free of charge.
Best of all it is 100% free og updated often.
Small footprint, and light on resources.

No it is not dead. Old, not obsolete.
http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/index.php?ver=8.2

Why Roon?
 

Katji

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[...]

Regardless, I didn't like the idea of subscriptions, either. But most commercial software is going that direction. It's a more predictable and sustainable business model. The consumer benefits from a more stable product and ongoing development and maintenance.

Bottom line, roon is a premium product that carries a premium price. For me, it's well worth it.


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Darwin

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Au contraire -- what is the primary route through which iOS apps are sold? The App Store, over which Apple has total dominance. Anything that appears, to Apple and its lawyers, not to be a neatly fitting jigsaw piece within the grand design specified, operated and maintained by Apple will not be granted sanctuary within the Apple ecosystem.

Just like all the other app stores by many other companies who also charge the same cut.
 

Pluto

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Just like all the other app stores by many other companies who also charge the same cut
True, but Apple is of greater concern than most of the others because of its near-monopolistic position, particularly on account of its interests in both content and hardware and its attempts to create a mutual lock-in between its divisions.
 

VintageFlanker

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tgray

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Roon seems like a cool idea, but ultimately didn't work for me. I didn't really care about the streaming integration (I know, a big selling point). The DSP and streaming to multiple endpoints were the selling points for me. The DSP was great. The streaming was... less seamless than either Airplay or Sonos in my house. Not saying it doesn't work for people, but it didn't well enough with my setup to justify the rather steep price.
 
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