Why practically no hi-end audio companies electronics tests?

[phoenixdogfan]

I'd love to see tests of kilobuck high-end audiophile components that you commonly find at audio shows. Just need the owners to send them in for testing. I think most (if not all) are afraid their big dollar big name audiophile components will rate headless panthers and be shown up by items costing 1/100th of what they paid. Don't be chicken - send in what you got.

Martin

Like everything by PS Audio. Actually, someone has to send the gear to Amir, and be unaffraid of dealing with the cognitive dissonance when it rates a headless panther.

 

[Jimbob54]

Like everything by PS Audio. Actually, someone has to send the gear to Amir, and be unaffraid of dealing with the cognitive dissonance when it rates a headless panther.

No, no, that doesn't matter. Because there are "things" that cannot be measured. So it would still be good.

 

[Spkrdctr]

No, no, that doesn't matter. Because there are "things" that cannot be measured. So it would still be good.

Synergy!

 

[Robin L]

Synergy!

 

[Tks]

Why is this being asked here? Why not email every single company you just mentioned and ask why they are cucking away in the shadows and not sending some retail samples?

Independent tester is supposed to go prowling around the world trying to find these devices mostly found in homes of the questionably sane?

Spoiler: The reason they don't send devices, is because many of them barely offer proper customer support. Devialet device was tested here once, found to have a flaw, and it was a disaster trying to get the situation rectified by the company even after this publicly made issue.

You think people like that have any interest in some sort of transparency? If they could they would offer less of it if it were up to them. Not only that, but these companies are actual idiots from a business perspective with respect to marketing. They will send to Stereophile which traffic has been on a dive fall compared to this website.. What sense does that even make seeing as how Stereophile does some measurements as well? I guess without the priming of a well crafted subjective take before the measurements at the end, it must be worth it, because here only the measurements are the highlight, while the subjective take is relegated mostly to interfacing with the product, and left at the end with a few short words.

 

[audio2design]

You are welcome to offer Amir some gear for testing if you feel expensive brands need more representation. The manufacturers, distributors and retailers can offer gear as well. Sometimes retailers, distributors, and manufacturers offer samples, but the vast majority is lent by members.

Most of the really expensive stuff is overpriced poorly performing audio jewelery, but I agree it would be nice to see a few more pieces of current production solid state and tube McIntosh, Accuphase, Luxman, Line Magnetic, etc. Hopefully some pieces will be offered for testing.

The Lampizatoe is crap. I would be more worried about why those companies do not provide comprehensive measurements. When you expect your customers to be your engineering QA, then you are low on my scale.

 

[Spkrdctr]

The Lampizatoe is crap. I would be more worried about why those companies do not provide comprehensive measurements. When you expect your customers to be your engineering QA, then you are low on my scale.

OMG. Once again you said it. The trademark of a truly crappy company.

 

[Spkrdctr]

That video is now going to make the rounds in the Tampa Florida business community. It says it all. Every business meeting buzzword ever used in one song. All those words mean nothing. Pure jingoism at it's best. Commonly known as claptrap. Weird AL really nailed it!

 

[JJB70]

The watch comparison is an interesting one. The watch I actually use as a daily wear is a Huawei GT2 smart watch. Completely accurate and with an excellent health tracker, objectively it is vastly superior to any mechanical wristwatch with the exception of needing regular access to a charge point. For diving I use a Casio G Shock digital Frogman which in my personal opinion is the best dive watch made and pretty much a dive computer. But I also have several mechanical watches such as a Speedmaster Professional, Seamaster Professional master coaxial, Stowa flieger B dial, an old Strela chronograph (which I have spent far more on in servicing and renewing than it will ever be worth) and a rather lovely Blancpain 50 fathoms which is the most extravagant thing I have ever bought. Despite recognizing that my Huawei and Frogman are objectively much better I like the precision and artistry of good mechanical watches and the attention to detail. And yes, there is a pleasure in the heritage. No it's not about timekeeping but there is something wonderful about the skill and precision required to make a mechanical watch as accurate and functional as possible which gives me pleasure. They are not rational purchases but I don't care

I have a similar feeling about audio. I consider listening to music and my interest in audio gear to be related but separate hobbies/interests. For listening to music I honestly find gear to be relatively unimportant.I can listen to the music I love using my smart phone with a dongle and the AKG IEMs bundled with the Galaxy S10 my last employer issued to me and enjoy the music just as much as any other IEMs or headphones. I have some nice headphones and IEMs and yes they offer better SQ but in reality the difference it makes to musical enjoyment is minimal. For enjoying music the gear really isn't that important. However what that gear does offer is better design, materials, tactile feel and pride of ownership. My parallel hobby is an interest in classic Japanese hi-fi. Not because I am under any illusions it would measure as well as cheap modern alternatives but because for me there is a real joy in the mechanical construction, impeccable fit and finish, depth of craftsmanship and design effort and the satisfaction that comes with something built to such a standard. Which is why my indulgence is my classic Sony ES set up and why one day I'd like a classic Accuphase system. I wouldn't be buying it under any illusions about sound quality (as stated, I really don't think audio gear matters that much, I can enjoy music on soundbars and my gaming headset) but neither would it just be audio jewelry as it is the heritage, quality and craftsmanship I admire

So for me there is indeed a parallel between audio gear and watches and it is entirely possible to see expensive stuff for what it is (an unnecessary and expensive self-indulgence) while still having a passion for it. However I am really not particularly interested in modern high end hi-fi, I am perfectly happy with a smartphone, dongle and pretty much any IEM or headphones for listening to music.

 

[Dialectic]

Only British high-end audio magazines are qualified to measure PRAT.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Only British high-end audio magazines are qualified to measure PRAT.

It takes one to know one.

 

[Foulchet]

Well, even if you care about measurements, you already know/guess (from physics) that you will probably have marginal improvements at best with high-end gear. When I buy "expensive" gear (all is relative), I know that I buy it for its aesthetics (which counts in the overall experience), features, form-factor or whatever other reason not related to the high-fidelity itself.

I guess that measurements might be important for speakers and headphones because these are the gear when you can really hear differences without analyzing your experience.

Plus I agree with above statements. Some people there think that because we rank gear from a sound-reproduction perspective, then people use this metrics as the deciding factor. But because haring music is a leisure/passion, the real objective function to optimize is preference/enjoyment. And that is exactly what some brands do (Bose, ...).

Bottom line, at a certain price thresold, nobody buys measurements. If I was loaded with money I might buy good-looking snake-oil cables.

 

[Dialectic]

It takes one to know one.

Busted. I know you all envy my 25 wpc Naim Nait!

 

[Ilkless]

For enjoying music the gear really isn't that important. However what that gear does offer is better design, materials, tactile feel and pride of ownership. My parallel hobby is an interest in classic Japanese hi-fi. Not because I am under any illusions it would measure as well as cheap modern alternatives but because for me there is a real joy in the mechanical construction, impeccable fit and finish, depth of craftsmanship and design effort and the satisfaction that comes with something built to such a standard. Which is why my indulgence is my classic Sony ES set up and why one day I'd like a classic Accuphase system. I wouldn't be buying it under any illusions about sound quality (as stated, I really don't think audio gear matters that much, I can enjoy music on soundbars and my gaming headset) but neither would it just be audio jewelry as it is the heritage, quality and craftsmanship I admire.

We share exactly the same interest. I also find them fascinating time capsules of the fearless, dominant bubble economy of Japan where consumer tech and purchasing power were so far ahead of the rest of the world. I mean, the US had the purchasing power but really the US/UK audio companies had nothing in the 80s/early 90s that could even compare as a complete package except for maybe McIntosh. AR and Levinsons and Threshold all felt and looked indelicate even if well-built. Naims felt and looked like a joke.

It also hit close to home because my father did an apprenticeship in Japan in the 70s and I grew up listening to his stories about the frenetic energy of Shibuya and Akihabara, stuffed full of electronics of all sorts.

There was real pride in manufacturing, extreme R&D, and a real gap in build quality, functionality and industrial design.

 

[JJB70]

Indeed, I remember British hifi magazines were desperate to promote boutique gear and pretend that Japanese gear was in some way inferior despite its pretty obvious technical superiority and build. I fell for it in my youth until one day I started asking the question - why was low cost entry level gear from Sony, Pioneer, Yamaha etc built to very obviously higher standards of construction than expensive European and American boutique gear and with superior measured performance consistently criticised whilst shoddily made stuff costing lots was elevated to near mythical status.

 

[Wes]

When was this?

I assume Japanese audio gear of the 1950s was not so great - like most things post WWII (Nikon excepted, of course). They decided they were going to be the best in the world at making products, applied culture-specific OCD and got there... maybe by the late 1960s(??).

Japanese hand tools (car mechanic stuff not just woodworking) is acknowledged to be as good or better than anything else. I already mentioned optical equipment. Food is an obvious area of superiority, esp. for a small country with few regions. Maybe nuclear power plant design is a lagging area...

 

[Ilkless]

When was this?

I assume Japanese audio gear of the 1950s was not so great - like most things post WWII (Nikon excepted, of course). They decided they were going to be the best in the world at making products, applied culture-specific OCD and got there... maybe by the late 1960s(??).

Japanese hand tools (car mechanic stuff not just woodworking) is acknowledged to be as good or better than anything else. I already mentioned optical equipment. Food is an obvious area of superiority, esp. for a small country with few regions. Maybe nuclear power plant design is a lagging area...

I think by the late 70s. Designs like the Sony TA-E88B or Pioneer Exclusive M4. Up till the early 2000s.

 

[JJB70]

I think it reflects changes in the market. When I was growing up "hi-fi" was a mass market product and almost every home I remember had an audio system. Now what the mass market called "hi-fi" may not have matched the audio enthusiasts definition of hi-fi but many of the entry-mid level systems sold in huge numbers by Sony, Marantz, Pioneer, Sansui, Yamaha etc were very good, superbly made and in many cases gave decades of great service. The high end and statement pieces made by these companies were built to standards we may never see again and which shame modern equipment I see, interestingly that includes modern products made by those Japanese companies that still make audio equipment. At one time high street shops sold lots of audio gear, even department stores and stack high sell cheap chains sold pretty serious mid and high end hi-fi, now it is all headphones and wireless speakers and traditional audio is a niche within a niche. In one sense that is positive as it is a result of good sound having been commoditised and good sound never having been more accessible but I miss those old Japanese companies. Sony used to make some remarkable equipment but pretty much lost interest in the late 90's.

 

[iMickey503]

Imagine you are a Lawnmower.
And Amir is Project Farm.
Do you REALLY want to go?


I think that answers the question in an elegant fashion.

 

[Ilkless]

I think it reflects changes in the market. When I was growing up "hi-fi" was a mass market product and almost every home I remember had an audio system. Now what the mass market called "hi-fi" may not have matched the audio enthusiasts definition of hi-fi but many of the entry-mid level systems sold in huge numbers by Sony, Marantz, Pioneer, Sansui, Yamaha etc were very good, superbly made and in many cases gave decades of great service. The high end and statement pieces made by these companies were built to standards we may never see again and which shame modern equipment I see, interestingly that includes modern products made by those Japanese companies that still make audio equipment. At one time high street shops sold lots of audio gear, even department stores and stack high sell cheap chains sold pretty serious mid and high end hi-fi, now it is all headphones and wireless speakers and traditional audio is a niche within a niche. In one sense that is positive as it is a result of good sound having been commoditised and good sound never having been more accessible but I miss those old Japanese companies. Sony used to make some remarkable equipment but pretty much lost interest in the late 90's.

Case in point: the volume control wars that yielded crazy overengineered pots like the ALPS RK50 between the Japanese firms. Now a dinky Blue Velvet is considered the high-end standard. Boutique firms don't have the luxury of being subsidised by profits from mass market gear to throw money at parts.. I have no doubt modern manufacturing and economies of scale have made sure performance of a Blue Velvet is much closer to those crazy pots than their build quality differences would indicate. But still. At least there was the feeling of you got your money's worth back then.