Why Pay More For Purifi 9040 vs Hypex NCX2k?

[1roger]

by the youtube video I ment subjective evidence. not factual, but sure.

"properly controlled experimental evidence and asserts facts from subjective, uncontrolled observation"

the problem with these experimental evidence and asserted facts is they largely revolve around some.. facts relevant for sound quality. not all.. afaik you can`t look at measurements and find dynamic capability in an instrument like a snare, soundstage depth, general coherence, what gear will have listening fatigue, clarity, timbre lots and lots of aspects concerning the outcome you actually hear.

you might try to convince me to buy either a corolla or civic with the spec sheet facts. id rather drive the car.

if you think otherwise - show me some measurements on purifi and hypex on this site.. which points to these mentioned audio qualities

 

[ahofer]

if you think otherwise - show me some measurements on purifi and hypex on this site.. which points to these mentioned audio qualities

I’m sorry, are you kidding now?

 

[Luvchampagne]

by the youtube video I ment subjective evidence. not factual, but sure.

"properly controlled experimental evidence and asserts facts from subjective, uncontrolled observation"

the problem with these experimental evidence and asserted facts is they largely revolve around some.. facts relevant for sound quality. not all.. afaik you can`t look at measurements and find dynamic capability in an instrument like a snare, soundstage depth, general coherence, what gear will have listening fatigue, clarity, timbre lots and lots of aspects concerning the outcome you actually hear.

you might try to convince me to buy either a corolla or civic with the spec sheet facts. id rather drive the car.

if you think otherwise - show me some measurements on purifi and hypex on this site.. which points to these mentioned audio qualities

You really don't get it. It's not about measurements.
Measurements will show what is different. Not what is better.
Are you willing to put aside your prejudices and test ABX?
If not, that's cool. But your opinion is no better than any random person.
Making assertions that can't be validated by a neutral ABX test is the issue.
There is really no argument beyond this.

 

[1roger]

"Measurements will show what is different. Not what is better" it will show you what`s different..concerning what is being tested. pretty big difference

ill look into ABX when I have time

 

[ahofer]

"Measurements will show what is different. Not what is better" it will show you what`s different..concerning what is being tested. pretty big difference

They will also show you what is *audible* under knowledge built for more than a century by audiologists. “Better” is a subset of “different” or “audible”.

Putting you on ignore now and I suggest others do the same. You are either a shill, a troll, or unable to read, reason, and react appropriately.

 

[1roger]

meaning you can`t produce an answer is that it. is this all you got?

again.. what musical qualities can you deduce from an amp review on here. be specific

be sure to watch the youtube comparison proving you lot wrong

 

[Chrispy]

Why worry about those particular differences? If cost is a concern, go with the less expensive choice.

 

[Everett T]

by the youtube video I ment subjective evidence. not factual, but sure.

"properly controlled experimental evidence and asserts facts from subjective, uncontrolled observation"

the problem with these experimental evidence and asserted facts is they largely revolve around some.. facts relevant for sound quality. not all.. afaik you can`t look at measurements and find dynamic capability in an instrument like a snare, soundstage depth, general coherence, what gear will have listening fatigue, clarity, timbre lots and lots of aspects concerning the outcome you actually hear.

you might try to convince me to buy either a corolla or civic with the spec sheet facts. id rather drive the car.

if you think otherwise - show me some measurements on purifi and hypex on this site.. which points to these mentioned audio qualities

Speakers play the largest role in your questions, not the amp and certainly not with amps that measure near perfectly. Now maybe some esoteric amps that have intentional flaws will intrude on those things, (and Tubes) but not neutral amps, which most are.

 

[Chrispy]

Speakers play the largest role in your questions, not the amp and certainly not with amps that measure near perfectly. Now maybe some esoteric amps that have intentional flaws will intrude on those things, (and Tubes) but not neutral amps, which most are.

Yep, and small differences in power at those impedance levels don't mean a lot either, except in your head.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

if you want, you can watch a nilai vs purifi vs ice - on youtube. its just three guys in a living room swapping amps and listening to the same songs. and tell me you can`t spot significant difference between them. im certainly fanboy of either of them. and not an owner

search live test- 3 times next gen class d - hypex - purify - icepower

That's....no.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

meaning you can`t produce an answer is that it. is this all you got?

again.. what musical qualities can you deduce from an amp review on here. be specific

be sure to watch the youtube comparison proving you lot wrong

Again, no.

 

[Everett T]

Again, no.

Imagine thinking a YouTube video is of sound quality, lol.

 

[Luvchampagne]

Imagine thinking a YouTube video is of sound quality, lol.

@1roger has the most golden ears )))

 

[ahofer]

Speakers play the largest role in your questions, not the amp and certainly not with amps that measure near perfectly. Now maybe some esoteric amps that have intentional flaws will intrude on those things, (and Tubes) but not neutral amps, which most are.

Agree. Power and impedance mismatch will produce significant and theoretically audible differences.

What is really instructive is the Stereo Review test where they couldn’t tell the Futterman valve amp from the Pioneer. Granted, the speaker load was pretty easy and stable (Magnepan), so the idiosyncrasies of the OTL amp wouldn’t have come out as much. But I’d have bet on them hearing something there.

 

[101geo]

This was settled 150 years ago by the oft quoted Lord Kelvin;
""I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts, advanced to the stage of science, whatever the matter may be."

 

[1roger]

@1roger has the most golden ears )))

golden ears are not required for spotting the fairly obvious

 

[JeremyFife]

golden ears are not required for spotting the fairly obvious

I agree.

But that's not what is happening here.

Consider an amplifier, paired with speakers that do not take it out of its design parameters. Based on measurement we know that it is flat across the audible range, does not boost nor diminish frequencies. Any noise or distortion it adds is below audible thresholds. We play at a volume where it is not clipping.

We compare that amp with another, similarly well designed amp and we make sure that listening levels are matched.

As yourself, what could make those amps sound different? It's not noise or distortion (we can't hear that). It's not a treble boost on the high hats (flat across the frequency range).
What could make such a huge difference that we actually hear it ... but it doesn't show in measurements ...

Add in the well established research on cognitive bias and perception.

It seems clear to me that the most likely explanation (occams razor) is that there is no difference ... we imagine one (we perceive one, which is still real)

Any other reason doesn't make sense in terms of engineering or biology. We have to invent something that cannot be proven, I'm not comfortable with that.

It's worth serious thought

 

[ahofer]

I agree.

But that's not what is happening here.

Consider an amplifier, paired with speakers that do not take it out of its design parameters. Based on measurement we know that it is flat across the audible range, does not boost nor diminish frequencies. Any noise or distortion it adds is below audible thresholds. We play at a volume where it is not clipping.

We compare that amp with another, similarly well designed amp and we make sure that listening levels are matched.

As yourself, what could make those amps sound different? It's not noise or distortion (we can't hear that). It's not a treble boost on the high hats (flat across the frequency range).
What could make such a huge difference that we actually hear it ... but it doesn't show in measurements ...

Add in the well established research on cognitive bias and perception.

It seems clear to me that the most likely explanation (occams razor) is that there is no difference ... we imagine one (we perceive one, which is still real)

Any other reason doesn't make sense in terms of engineering or biology. We have to invent something that cannot be proven, I'm not comfortable with that.

It's worth serious thought

 

[pablolie]

This talk about "what's better, Purifi or Ncore?" are kind of the discussions about "Who is the boxing GOAT? Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson or blabla"... meaning they are all absolutely exceptional. People will pick whatever they are emotionaly invested in, the records/measurements can be twisted in many possible ways.

I'd say since the mid 2010s, if one picked a great Class D implementation there is zero benefit in upgrading for SQ. If one upgrades, it's merely for practical features that are missing on the "old" box.

 

[101geo]

This talk about "what's better, Purifi or Ncore?" are kind of the discussions about "Who is the boxing GOAT? Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson or blabla"... meaning they are all absolutely exceptional. People will pick whatever they are emotionaly invested in, the records/measurements can be twisted in many possible ways.

I'd say since the mid 2010s, if one picked a great Class D implementation there is zero benefit in upgrading for SQ. If one upgrades, it's merely for practical features that are missing on the "old" box.

Sorry to veer slightly off topic but I've asked before and the question still nags. Is it worth upgrading to class D from a "Proper" late 90's heavyweight amp like a Bryston or Threshold? I'm tempted to have a go at a DIY class D amp but will I hear a difference?