Why or why not use balanced connections

[Krunok]

Yes, but given that home users routinely don't read the user manual and as a result equipment is often broken, it would be preferable - especially given the minimal to non-existent additional costs - if that were not the case.

Audio equipment is actually extremly seldom broken because of connecting powered devices with RCA cables.

And replacing unbalanced RCA connections with balanced XLR connections involves not so minimal costs, especially on cheaper devices where margins are small so development engineers have to count every cent for the parts they spend to still achieve desired specs and quality.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Audio equipment is actually extremly seldom broken because of connecting powered devices with RCA cables.

And replacing unbalanced RCA connections with balanced XLR connections involves not so minimal costs, especially on cheaper devices where margins are small so development engineers have to count every cent for the parts they spend to still achieve desired specs and quality.

I've lost a very treasured pair of speakers due to someone trying to yank out and reconnect an RCA cable during a party.

This is the cheapest RCA connector and this is the cheapest XLR connector available at the largest all-purpose electronics store in my country. There is a difference in price but it's hardly significant.

 

[Krunok]

I've lost a very treasured pair of speakers due to someone trying to yank out and reconnect an RCA cable during a party.

You let people you invite to a party to reconnect your audio equipment? Heh, don't get me wrong, but to me it seems like that was your fault and not the RCA connectors.

This is the cheapest RCA connector and this is the cheapest XLR connector available at the largest all-purpose electronics store in my country. There is a difference in price but it's hardly significant.

For a true balanced design you have to redesign the whole circuitry, not only replace the connectors.

 

[andreasmaaan]

For a true balanced design you have to redesign the whole circuitry, not only replace the connectors.

I'm not arguing for a balanced design.

I'm saying that it's easy and cheap to make a connector that eliminates this issue.

 

[andreasmaaan]

And PS I was not in the room at the time, and these were people who own their own stereos with RCA connectors, like everyone else.

 

[Thomas savage]

I've lost a very treasured pair of speakers due to someone trying to yank out and reconnect an RCA cable during a party.

This is the cheapest RCA connector and this is the cheapest XLR connector available at the largest all-purpose electronics store in my country. There is a difference in price but it's hardly significant.

That’s a huge difference from a manufacturing pov, could cost millions .

 

[Thomas savage]

And PS I was not in the room at the time, and these were people who own their own stereos with RCA connectors, like everyone else.

I’m dying to know , are you still friends? Did you kick them out? What were you doing in the ‘other ‘ room ??

 

[Krunok]

I’m dying to know , are you still friends? Did you kick them out? What were you doing in the ‘other ‘ room ??

Getting experience, what else..

 

[pkane]

You let people you invite to a party to reconnect your audio equipment? Heh, don't get me wrong, but to me it seems like that was your fault and not the RCA connectors.

The price of the DO NOT TOUCH signs that mesh with my decor way exceed the price of a few XLR connectors.

 

[Krunok]

I'm not arguing for a balanced design.

I'm saying that it's easy and cheap to make a connector that eliminates this issue.

I'm not sure I get what you mean - you would redesign RCA connector so that it remains unballanced but that the center pole never makes connection before the outer part? Heh, that certainly would makes sense but that would be a change of RCA standard and that is not something industry would easilly accept for the benefits you so far argued.

 

[Krunok]

The price of the DO NOT TOUCH signs that mesh with my decor way exceed the price of a few XLR connectors.

In my house that goes without saying and without a sign, even my mother in law is aware of that.

 

[sergeauckland]

Not sure I agree. Many DACS measured better via balanced out, as I recall.

If they did, then something's wrong. A balanced output has at least one extra opamp or a transformer, so should measure no better, hopefully no worse, but certainly not better.

What I HATE about the RCA connector is that the signal makes contact before the screen, and the reverse on disconnection. Whoever designed that should be taken out and soundly whipped. For unbalanced use, a BNC is much preferred, although those are hard to connect and disconnect in tight spaces. The XLR is such a good connector, that I use it whenever I can, even for unbalanced circuits in stuff I make for my own use.

S

 

[pkane]

In my house that goes without saying and without a sign, even my mother in law is aware of that.

You are lucky. For me, even the signs may not help. Maybe a mouse trap by each of the connectors?

 

[Krunok]

If they did, then something's wrong. A balanced output has at least one extra opamp or a transformer, so should measure no better, hopefully no worse, but certainly not better.

What I HATE about the RCA connector is that the signal makes contact before the screen, and the reverse on disconnection. Whoever designed that should be taken out and soundly whipped. For unbalanced use, a BNC is much preferred, although those are hard to connect and disconnect in tight spaces. The XLR is such a good connector, that I use it whenever I can, even for unbalanced circuits in stuff I make for my own use.

S

RCA connector is really not the best thing ever invented so the idea of whipping the inventor doesn't sound bad to me. I cannot imagine any other possible reason why they accepted that design except under the assumption it won't be touched frequently.

I would happily live with BNC. Some of you may remember the early days of networking when BNC connector was used with Arcnet which was far more reliable than RJ45.

 

[Krunok]

You are lucky. For me, even the signs may not help. Maybe a mouse trap by each of the connectors?

Nope. You have to learn to wear cool face of a potential serial killer who will without hesitation coldly execute anybody who touches your equipment. I'm sure that part comes a separate lesson in Thomas Savages "How to become and stay cool" course.

 

[dc655321]

I'm not sure I get what you mean - you would redesign RCA connector so that it remains unballanced but that the center pole never makes connection before the outer part? Heh, that certainly would makes sense but that would be a change of RCA standard and that is not something industry would easilly accept for the benefits you so far argued.

Behold the abomination... only $20 USD/pair

 

[pkane]

Nope. You have to learn to wear cool face of a potential serial killer who will without hesitation coldly execute anybody who touches your equipment. I'm sure that part comes a separate lesson in Thomas Savages "How to become and stay cool" course.

I'll attempt to wear my most Savage face from now on and switch to all RCA connectors.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Why not? Do you have any proof that SPDIF is of lesser quality than AES3 in a typical home usage? I wonder how could that be as they both use the same serial protocol? Do you think SPDIF serial comm is affected by ppor RCA connectors and/or bad shielding? Strange how that doesn't show on @amirm measurements although any alteration in bits being transferrred should immediately transform into THD and pops/clicks.



And we were talking about XLR vs RCA connectors, which are used in analog and in digital connections. But anyway, RCA unbalanced analog cables of 10 meter length can easilly be found on the market:

https://www.cablechick.com.au/cables/10m-avencore-crystal-series-2rca-stereo-audio-cable.html
https://www.4cabling.com.au/rca-stereo-audio-cable-10m.html

Here is one 20 meters long: https://www.amazon.co.uk/HQ-Connection-Double-Shielded-Stereo/dp/B000O77U5W

30m long: https://www.ebay.com/itm/30m-RARE-3...CA-Composite-Video-Stereo-Audio-/220960910955

And look at these guys, they are even offering 50 meters cable, now isn't that a miracle? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5M-10-20...hash=item4d76404df8:m:mMaTnSO4OOVNt_Nr5NI912g

There is much more than ample theoretical and measured evidence that properly implemented, galvanically isolated asynch USB is superior to Spdif and AES, except in rare, expensive circumstances, where they may be close to equal. That is what I use.

The fact that long unbalanced interconnects are sold and can be obtained evidences exactly what about their superior performance relative to balanced XLR? I don't get your point. I can find even longer XLR interconnects for you. But, what is this, a pissing contest?

 

[Krunok]

I'll attempt to wear my most Savage face from now on and switch to all RCA connectors.

No need to swap RCA, I'm using XLR connectors as well, but I cannot emphasize enough the importance of a proper Savage cool face.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Back to the D10 vs RME/Oppo/etc discussion, perhaps given recent posts in the D10 thread about USB input noise, this is not in fact the best choice for a competitor? Perhaps the D50? But that would bring us up to the $250 mark for our candidate for least-expensive transparent DAC.