Why or why not use balanced connections

[Fitzcaraldo215]

It's not antagonistic at all - the point is if you don't touch them often you don't really benefit of their robust connection. And that is exactly the point why RCA connector is good enough for home usage.

The other part is the length - if you don't need cables longer than 10m than you won't benefit of the balanced connection. And again, in home usage you are typically fine with less than 10m.

10 meters? Who besides you says that, preferably with some sort of measured proof? I have personally compared at 10 meters and unbalanced just did not cut it.

HT installers don't plan to touch the connections frequently, but ask them if they prefer RCAs for ease of installation, ease of troubleshooting, freedom from potential unforeseen noise issues like dimmers, freedom from length issues, etc. it is called proactively eliminating potential problems before they occur at minimum cost and with time savings.

It is also not really about robustness. RCA cables/connectors can be equally robust vs. XLRs.

And, for most competent equipment designs, there is also the grounding issue, often cured with XLRs, but sometimes not. Hence, there are simple XLR ground lift adapters without isolation transformers, extra ground wires or without messing with electrical safety grounds.

I don't touch my connections frequently, but unpredictably I do from time to time. Once you have used balanced XLRs, there is no going back.

 

[garbulky]

I would also like to point out that XLRis the cooler connection. Yes I have done DBT tests here.... 100% in agreement. Can be no error.

 

[Krunok]

Uh I use it at home, typically? And so does my friend. Also I forgot to mention so does my other friend! Oh and my fourth audio buddy also does, but less often.

Uf, be serious - RCA is a technology found almost in every home so even a 4 million of your friends wouldn't be enough to change typical usage pattern.

 

[Thomas savage]

I would also like to point out that XLRis the cooler connection. Yes I have done DBT tests here.... 100% in agreement. Can be no error.

Being a Audiophile this statement regarding what’s ‘cool’ carries no credibility.

You are anti cool , not in a cool French anti hero way..,you are the antidote to cool and utterly naff as hell in a embarrassing dad dancing kind of way.

 

[Krunok]

10 meters? Who besides you says that, preferably with some sort of measured proof? I have personally compared at 10 meters and unbalanced just did not cut it.

10 meters is max length of 75ohm coax cable as per SPDIF standard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF

 

[Krunok]

Being a Audiophile this statement regarding what’s ‘cool’ carries no credibility.

You are anti cool , not in a cool French anti hero way..,you are the antidote to cool and utterly naff as hell in a embarrassing dad dancing kind of way.

LOOL

 

[Thomas savage]

Uf, be serious - RCA is a technology found almost in every home so even a 4 million of your friends wouldn't be enough to change typical usage pattern.

Because it’s good enough for the application and economical as compared to alternatives, however most (all) Audiophiles disregard ‘good enough ‘ and any semblance of economy so...

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

10 meters is max length of 75ohm coax cable as per SPDIF standard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF

I wouldn't use Spdif for that or any other length. And, you keep taking about "typical". 10 meter Spdif is hardly typical. But, if you gotta, you gotta.

I was talking about balanced XLR analog connections vs. unbalanced RCAs. That is an entirely ballgame than digital connections.

 

[andreasmaaan]

RCA has no issues in normal home usage. Home user's are not complaining on them and industry has no plans to replace them.

If you want to use XLR or space tech connectors in your home that surely is a matter of your personal preference, but it doesn't allow you to make claims about RCA for which you offered no proof at all except claiming they wouldn't do well in a professional usage, which is hardly a point as they were engineered and manufactured for home usage.

My point about home usage had nothing to do with what they were designed for and everything to do with the inherent problems arising from the non-standardised connectors, which on one occasion led to me have to yank a pair of RCAs off a moderately expensive power amp with pliers (in a very typical home use context).

And nevertheless I continue to agree with you that RCA is (just barely) acceptable for typical home use.

In fact, if RCA had been standardised at some point, I would go so far as to say that it were not inherently flawed. But that is not the case.

So this is not about RCA vs XLR. It's simply about the fact that the standard connector used in home audio is not standardised and that this tends to create annoying problems, a situation which I find to be borderline ridiculous, yet just tolerable.

 

[garbulky]

Being a Audiophile this statement regarding what’s ‘cool’ carries no credibility.

You are anti cool , not in a cool French anti hero way..,you are the antidote to cool and utterly naff as hell in a embarrassing dad dancing kind of way.

My dbt tests clearly disagree with you on cool factor. I carefully level matched the cables. And then I selected the XLR not for better sound but for sheer coolness. My calibrated cool-o-meter measured it at “flava flav” (Hugh Bonneville in uk scale). Though I will concede the dad dance Which I agree is not cool at all

 

[Krunok]

So this is not about RCA vs XLR. It's simply about the fact that the standard connector used in home audio is not standardised and that this tends to create annoying problems, a situation which I find to be borderline ridiculous, yet just tolerable.

It is standardised, these are standard dimensions: "The male plug has a center pin which is 3.175 mm (1/8 inch) in diameter, and is surrounded by an outer shell which is 8.25 mm (1/3 inch) in diameter. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_connector

 

[Krunok]

I wouldn't use Spdif for that or any other length.

Why not? Do you have any proof that SPDIF is of lesser quality than AES3 in a typical home usage? I wonder how could that be as they both use the same serial protocol? Do you think SPDIF serial comm is affected by ppor RCA connectors and/or bad shielding? Strange how that doesn't show on @amirm measurements although any alteration in bits being transferrred should immediately transform into THD and pops/clicks.

And, you keep taking about "typical". 10 meter Spdif is hardly typical. But, if you gotta, you gotta.

I was talking about balanced XLR analog connections vs. unbalanced RCAs. That is an entirely ballgame than digital connections.

And we were talking about XLR vs RCA connectors, which are used in analog and in digital connections. But anyway, RCA unbalanced analog cables of 10 meter length can easilly be found on the market:

https://www.cablechick.com.au/cables/10m-avencore-crystal-series-2rca-stereo-audio-cable.html
https://www.4cabling.com.au/rca-stereo-audio-cable-10m.html

Here is one 20 meters long: https://www.amazon.co.uk/HQ-Connection-Double-Shielded-Stereo/dp/B000O77U5W

30m long: https://www.ebay.com/itm/30m-RARE-3...CA-Composite-Video-Stereo-Audio-/220960910955

And look at these guys, they are even offering 50 meters cable, now isn't that a miracle? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5M-10-20...hash=item4d76404df8:m:mMaTnSO4OOVNt_Nr5NI912g

 

[andreasmaaan]

It is standardised, these are standard dimensions: "The male plug has a center pin which is 3.175 mm (1/8 inch) in diameter, and is surrounded by an outer shell which is 8.25 mm (1/3 inch) in diameter. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_connector

Fair point, I should have chosen my words more carefully. Although the connector is standardised, there is a huge amount of inconsistency between different connectors in practice, which creates problems.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I happen to dislike RCA connectors, especially on analog devices. Try hot-plugging an RCA interconnect into a powered amp. You'll be lucky if you don't hurt your ears (or speakers) -- the design ensures that you make the hot connection before the ground. XLR connectors are more secure and a better design that guarantees that the ground gets connected first. Whether you use balanced topology or not is a separate question.

It would be preferable for the standard for home use (i.e. use by people who often don't know what they are doing) to be foolproof against this effect, especially given that so many other cables are available that are foolprooof in this sense and that are not much more complex or expensive to manufacture.

 

[Krunok]

Fair point, I should have chosen my words more carefully. Although the connector is standardised, there is a huge amount of inconsistency between different connectors in practice, which creates problems.

Sure there is, but there is also a huge inconsistency in every other aspect of home audio devices between various manufacturers. As with all other things, those products that cost more usually have all parts of better quality, RCA connectors included.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Sure there is, but there is also a huge inconsistency in every other aspect of home audio devices between various manufacturers. As with all other things, those products that cost more usually have all parts of better quality, RCA connectors included.

Yes, in many areas. But I've never experienced this kind of inconsistency with XLR.

 

[Krunok]

It would be preferable for the standard for home use (i.e. use by people who often don't know what they are doing) to be foolproof against this effect, especially given that so many other cables are available that are foolprooof in this sense and that are not much more complex or expensive to manufacture.

Home audio devices were never built with the requirement to be (inter)connected while powered on and that is very clearly stated in their users/owners manuals.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Home audio devices were never built with the requirement to be (inter)connected while powered on and that is very clearly stated in their users/owners manuals.

Yes, but given that home users routinely don't read the user manual and as a result equipment is often broken, it would be preferable - especially given the minimal to non-existent additional costs - if that were not the case.

 

[Krunok]

Yes, in many areas. But I've never experienced this kind of inconsistency with XLR.

That is generally true for all professional grade equipment, but it's still not an argument to use professional equipment for home use.
Unless of course it pleases you, which i very much understand, but that is really not an argument to bitch home audio connecting equipment which works well and without any issues if used as intended.

 

[Thomas savage]

My dbt tests clearly disagree with you on cool factor. I carefully level matched the cables. And then I selected the XLR not for better sound but for sheer coolness. My calibrated cool-o-meter measured it at “flava flav” (Hugh Bonneville in uk scale). Though I will concede the dad dance Which I agree is not cool at all

cool requires no effort, in fact effort is the enemy of cool.., you show a continued blindness to what is cool.